Some Questions From A Returning Player (NCE Delaque)

Xeptance

Ganger
Feb 17, 2011
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18
Adelaide, South Australia
Hey guys, I haven't played Necromunda for quite a few years and I was looking for a little advice.

I'm starting a Delaque gang and was wondering if I could get some feedback/recommendations on my starting roster. I haven't given them names yet, I just quickly knocked together the sheet to get some feedback. (https://yaktribe.org/necromunda/gang/view/18557/You're+DQ'd)


A few explanations:
* My leader's sword will shift to Juve 1 after first game, eventually ending up on the most H2H proficient ganger, probably with his plasma pistol too (grab a backup auto/las pistol instead)
* The Hand Flamer will shift to my 2nd Juve after the first game.

The general idea was to have the Heavy Stubber, 2 hunting rifles and the lasgunner (a little closer) provide covering fire while I try to get the meltagun in range.

The juves will lead the charge with my leader and shotgunner providing support.

I guess my main questions are:
(1) Is it wise to use such a short range weapon like the Meltagun in a Delaque gang? (would another plasmagun be a better option, allowing me to fire from a much safer range?)
(2) Do you think dropping such a huge chunk of my starting creds on 2 special weapons, 2 plasma pistols and a heavy stubber is wise? Only my Leader and 2nd Heavy have backup weapons to start. The plan is to pick up a bunch of pistols as quick as possible.
(3) Is it a bad plan to begin with only 4 Gangers? If even 1 of them ends up going out of action it's going to start severely impacting on my income.

Now for some more questions :p

I have a group of friends who have dabbled in 40k, but are currently pretty disillusioned by the directions the rules are heading (I heard something about a rule to prevent the use of models over 2 years old or something? :S). They are all into RPGs, we currently play DnD together etc, so I don't think it will be too difficult to get them to give Necromunda a look.

My plan, if they are interested, is to lend them some minis (I have Van Saar, Escher, Goliath, Cawdor and the Delaque I'll be using) and play with just the base NCE rules, at least to begin with. I have pretty much every printed Necromunda resource (just missing Necro Mag 7 & 9) so we have a bunch of stuff we can add later if we like. I guess what I am asking is:

(A) Have you got any advice for introducing new players to Necromunda?
(B) Are there any additional rules that you'd recommend including? (either right from the start or later on)
(C) Are there any additional rules that you recommend avoiding? (not very well balanced etc.)

If the group of friends I mentioned isn't interested, I'll still be playing some games with my Dad. We first started playing together way back in like...'98 or '99 or something. We haven't played any games for years and it will be his first time using the NCE, so particularly (B) and (C) from above will be relevant regardless.

Thanks for your time and input :D

-X
 
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trollmeat

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Firstly, sorry this reply is rambly, I'm never awake enough to be online:)

40k is dull, and lacks campaign+character development. Yes, it looks as though GW is deliberately doing a Scale-Creep, so that older models will look small/insignificant and out of place when on the field with new models.

I'm not a fan of the legitimate tactic of over-equipping the Leader and then sharing out the guns after the first battle... But I also do not use House Weapons lists, and have a more relaxed approach where if someone wants to have a few juves with weapons that would normally be unavailable to them, they can just do it (fluff and fun wins out over beardyness - if you can fluff justify [fluffify] something you can do it).

If your friends already have 40k models, to introduce them to Necromunda skirmish style games you could check out Inquisimuna.

1) melta is a classic Leader set up, even for Delaque, except usually an Auto/Las/Shotgun is taken as a backup weapon(providing a bit of extra range)
2) I use a rule ~"The stuff of Heroes", where all Leadets may re-roll a Serious Injury result of "Dead", be it 11-16 or from a High Impact double (but as per normal no die may be re-rolled more than once, so no additional re-roll if you have Medic later). This means that the Leader, who is the core of the gang, is less likely to die, but if they do it is spectacular.
3) I always recommend starting with 5 gangers, but a high number of Juves is also good because they soon level up and are generally better gangers than Gangers in the long run. However, I'm a Filthy Scavvy and my Math-hammer is superior numbers over superior equipment...
 
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Xeptance

Ganger
Feb 17, 2011
107
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Adelaide, South Australia
Thanks for the reply :)

I started with Necromunda, so I suppose my views on 40k have always been a little biased. To me it's always seemed a little impersonal and overly expensive.

I admit I do feel a little weird about exploiting the "leader only" section of the HWL. I'm not an overly competitive player and it feels especially cheap considering I plan on playing my gang against new players. I've never played with HWLs before and I guess I just don't like the idea of giving up a rare trade for a sword when I reach that inevitable point of one of my gangers picking up a [WS] or [A] advance.

Speaking of which, I was actually planning on asking what people thought about HWLs. I suppose I forgot to include that question though...

If my friends are keen to use their 40K models I was thinking I'd do the following:
* Get them to choose a house based on where they think they'd fit (style / which skills seemed most appropriate) and have a story along the lines of "Your crew was double crossed while on a trade mission, everyone thinks you are dead and there will be no rescue". Perhaps they are trying to accumulate credits to send a message for rescue? Regardless, their skills have found them a home in whatever house they choose.
* Ignore the HWLs for gang creation, allowing them to use whatever weaponry their models have. Perhaps limiting them to the HWL after creation though, they are now stuck in the underhive with their only backup supplies being what they can acquire from their new alliance with their house. (This may be an issue when they are acquiring new models etc, maybe just ignore HWLs entirely?)

I'd not thought of Inquisimunda. I actually assumed that Inquisimunda was basically an adaption of the Necromunda rules to use with the Inquisitor system of a few huge models. I'll definitely check out Inquisimunda and see if that might be a better fit for us.

I had a melta on the leader of a previous Goliath gang and it was terrifying! If I hit something it usually didn't get back up... I could use that fear to drive enemies towards my more skilled H2H group etc. In a Delaque gang I imagine it'll fill more of a "keep your H2H guys back if you want them to keep their faces" kind of role.

I like the sound of your "The Stuff of Heroes" rule. Having your leader die is always a scary prospect. I feel like that rule would make people a little less inclined to play passively with their leaders?

I think in the past I've always gone for at least 5 Gangers to start and the income security was real nice. I also usually only start with 1 Heavy, I thought I'd try something different this time. I was actually planning on running only a basic weapon on the second heavy, awarding the Heavy Stubber to whichever managed to role a [BS] increase first. I've never had the chance to run a plasma gun before (running mainly Goliath in the past) so when I noticed that on Delaques HWL I thought it might be fun to try out. I've also never run a Heavy Plasma Gun, so I even toyed with that idea for a little bit. The huge cost made it seem a little extreme to start with though...

I've been a huge fan of Juves since very early on. My first gang was Goliath and I played exclusively with my Dad's Orlock gang on a board with not enough scatter terrain. I had 2 settlements from memory, so my almost bottomless supply of Juves played a crucial meat shield role to get my Nasty H2H fighters in range. When a few of them managed to actually level up they became some of the nastiest fighters I had! I really like the way Juves end up with a bit more character, having more varied stats/skills and often wounds as well. I hope to pick up another 2-3 Juves around the time my first 2 become Gangers (If they live that long). In fact, if I can avoid it I don't think I'll buy another Ganger beyond the start, I'd much rather level Juves into that role if possible. Obviously, unforeseen circumstances may require me to do so, but let's hope not.
 
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Ben_S

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I have a group of friends who have dabbled in 40k, but are currently pretty disillusioned by the directions the rules are heading (I heard something about a rule to prevent the use of models over 2 years old or something?
New models are often (though not always) more powerful, forcing players to add to their armies to stay competitive. But I don't think there's any chance of a formal rule like that that you mention. One would only be able to recognise an older model if GW were to revise their whole range every year or two. I can't see that happening.

I guess my main questions are:
(1) Is it wise to use such a short range weapon like the Meltagun in a Delaque gang? (would another plasmagun be a better option, allowing me to fire from a much safer range?)
(2) Do you think dropping such a huge chunk of my starting creds on 2 special weapons, 2 plasma pistols and a heavy stubber is wise? Only my Leader and 2nd Heavy have backup weapons to start. The plan is to pick up a bunch of pistols as quick as possible.
(3) Is it a bad plan to begin with only 4 Gangers? If even 1 of them ends up going out of action it's going to start severely impacting on my income.
I don't have experience of Delaques, but I'd imagine that they are the ideal gang to sneak into melta-range with their stealth skills.

I wouldn't worry about starting without back-up weapons. Only 4 gangers could be more limiting, since you could easily have a couple OOA. However, just how limiting that is depends on your territories anyway. If you have a couple of low-income territories (old ruins, vents, etc) then you won't feel the loss too badly.

(A) Have you got any advice for introducing new players to Necromunda?
(B) Are there any additional rules that you'd recommend including? (either right from the start or later on)
(C) Are there any additional rules that you recommend avoiding? (not very well balanced etc.)

If the group of friends I mentioned isn't interested, I'll still be playing some games with my Dad. We first started playing together way back in like...'98 or '99 or something. We haven't played any games for years and it will be his first time using the NCE, so particularly (B) and (C) from above will be relevant regardless.
I'm not a fan of house weapon lists, so I'd be tempted to ignore them, meaning you don't have to worry about exploiting loopholes by taking leader only weapons in order to swap them later. On the whole, I think the NCE ruleset is an improvement, but you should feel free to pick and choose the rules that you like (but be warned that changing one rule can have a knock-on effect elsewhere).
 
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Xeptance

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Feb 17, 2011
107
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Adelaide, South Australia
New models are often (though not always) more powerful, forcing players to add to their armies to stay competitive.
Ah, that seems like a more likely situation.

I don't have experience of Delaques, but I'd imagine that they are the ideal gang to sneak into melta-range with their stealth skills.
Yeah, I don't have much experience with Delaque or stealth skills in general, but I was hoping it might make it a little easier to get into decent spots. 12" is a pretty difficult range, only 4" to play with before you're in charge range. I think I'm still leaning towards having 1 of each of the Melta and Plasma guns. Variety keeps things interesting and forces you to use gang members in different ways etc.

I wouldn't worry about starting without back-up weapons. Only 4 gangers could be more limiting, since you could easily have a couple OOA. However, just how limiting that is depends on your territories anyway. If you have a couple of low-income territories (old ruins, vents, etc) then you won't feel the loss too badly.
Yeah, that's the part I'm concerned about. If I have 2 Gangers go down in the same game that cuts me back to just 2 territories worked and I imagine that will start to impact on the long term viability of the gang pretty quickly. Do you think it would be more beneficial to start with a 5th Ganger and pick up some Juves after a game or 2? I could potentially just play a little more cautiously with my Gangers for the first few games?

I'm not a fan of house weapon lists, so I'd be tempted to ignore them, meaning you don't have to worry about exploiting loopholes by taking leader only weapons in order to swap them later. On the whole, I think the NCE ruleset is an improvement, but you should feel free to pick and choose the rules that you like (but be warned that changing one rule can have a knock-on effect elsewhere).
I'm wondering if changing the "Leader Only" section to "Limit of One" would make sense. In terms of Fluff I suppose it makes more sense that the rare weapons are on the Leader as a sign of significance, but just having those weapons be rare in your house (with a limit of 1 to begin with) wouldn't change much in terms of mechanics. It does have the benefit of not needing to swap them over after fulfilling the "must be equipped with them for the first game." requirement.
 
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Ben_S

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12" is a pretty difficult range, only 4" to play with before you're in charge range.
If you hit your target, it shouldn't be a problem... You can also try using terrain to make it more difficult or impossible for your opponent to charge you even from within 8-12".

Do you think it would be more beneficial to start with a 5th Ganger and pick up some Juves after a game or 2? I could potentially just play a little more cautiously with my Gangers for the first few games?
Depends on your territories. One word of warning though is that, if you play cautiously with your gangers, then it means exposing your leader or heavies to danger instead. Sure your juves are meatshields, but with only two out of nine you won't be at bottling point until you take another casualty - it will either have to be a ganger or someone more valuable...

I'm wondering if changing the "Leader Only" section to "Limit of One" would make sense.
I think that's a great idea. Maybe a limit of one of each of those items is a little generous (aren't you normally limited to something like no more than two from the leader list?) but I've gone on record before in saying that I think rules that force you to play a game with an item before swapping it to who you want are pretty silly.
 
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Xeptance

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If you hit your target, it shouldn't be a problem... You can also try using terrain to make it more difficult or impossible for your opponent to charge you even from within 8-12".
That's true. The trick is finding terrain that won't obscure your shot while still preventing the charge though. I guess it will just take some practice to get used to using effectively.

Depends on your territories. One word of warning though is that, if you play cautiously with your gangers, then it means exposing your leader or heavies to danger instead. Sure your juves are meatshields, but with only two out of nine you won't be at bottling point until you take another casualty - it will either have to be a ganger or someone more valuable...
Yeah, very true. I guess I just need to make them bottle instead :p


(aren't you normally limited to something like no more than two from the leader list?)
From memory, that's correct. I was assuming that restriction would stay too. You're probably right about it being a little too generous if you leave that part out, but what does that say about dropping HWLs entirely? I imagine it doesn't really make too much difference as long as everyone is following the same rules. Although, I suppose a gang with Leader access to something like the Boltgun suddenly becomes a bit more powerful if you don't have the limit of 2 and are fielding 4 of them in the first game or something...

Edit: I should mention that I think I like the HWLs for the most part. I like the way they add a little more uniqueness to each of the houses.
 
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trollmeat

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Don't forget overwatch. Your Melta may be short range, but if they want to charge they will have to sacrifice a Juve to get that CC beast through. :)

There are topics around discussing House Weapons Lists, with the main For argument being that it forces each House gang to be different from the others from the outset, but the main drawback being that each gang in the same House is then restricted in their choices and where two gangs of the same House are in the same campaign they basically become carbon copies.

My argument against House Weapons Lists is that there will be enough of a difference between the gangs due to player preferences for weapons and style of play, and it only takes a game or two for the different House Skills to start showing. That being said, I do play with a HWL of sorts, as more often than not I am an Outlander(Scavvy, Redemption and a while ago Ratskins), with my favoured gang being Scavvies. Since playing Scavvies regularly, I have brought their tactics back with me for House Gangs, and generally gone with more bodies and less equipment (gangers=auto/shot/lasgun, juves=auto/stub/laspistol).

...the Math-hammer dictates that more bodies means more shots fired and more wounds can be taken, so a Filthy Horde is more likely to win. However, when introducing new players it is probably best to keep numbers low.
=A gang of 9 works well for this, it sits nicely at 3 models Out of Action for the purposes of Bottle tests(in scenarios where all models turn up) and at the top of the backet for Washing Income. To make things simple for New Players, you might even want to give them a Leader, Heavy, 4 Gangers and 3 Juves (or some variant), and then let them choose equipment with the remaining funds. This would also start everyone on the same footing, and mean there is only two special weapons, or one heavy and one special to keep track of, per gang.

...
Someone said, somewhere on Yak, that when they introduce new players, that they will describe what would normally happen ~"Here we would normally roll to see if the pinned model will fall...", but then say ~"shall we do that, or ignore that rule for this battle?"
-exploding weapons, high impact, burning, unpinning early, anything that reduces the number of rolls to keep the game flowing.
 
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spafe

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Hi there, just had a read of your thinking, and the list... To be honest the only swap I'd make straight away is the plasma gun and meltagun... the heavy can sit back a bit and fire the plasma gun, using the sustained fire to help with the lower bs skill if he needs, while the leader can use the meltagun and his higher bs to make the single shot count (esp when you're likely to only get a single shot once you are in meltagun range).

the other thing is for the first game give the juve with just a knife your leaders back up plasma pistol so he can at least contribute a bit at the beginning.
 
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Ben_S

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the other thing is for the first game give the juve with just a knife your leaders back up plasma pistol so he can at least contribute a bit at the beginning.
Good thinking on the special weapons. The plasma pistol though is 'leader only' I believe (and wasted on a juve anyway).
 
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spafe

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Nope, not for delaque, its just a regular pistol :) And if the leaders shooting his meltagun, might as well fire the pistol with a juve in case he gets a lucky hit (and with 4+ ammo can go for those 6's to hit too!)
 
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Ben_S

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My bad - you're right. Actually, it seems most gangs now have it on their HWL and no one appears to have it 'Leader only'. It's just the sword that he was talking about when he mentioned exploiting the leader only stuff.

I'd still say the plasma is wasted on a juve though so, if there's no need to take it from the start, I'd drop it in favour of an autopistol for the juve and money in the bank.
 
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spafe

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I think the other weapon was the hand flamer, then after the first game you swap them over... but looking at it, I think you're right, hand flamer on the elader then give to a juve after first game (along with sword, one for each juve), then drop the plasma pistol and give juve an autopistol for the first game. If leader is toting a meltagun, no real need for a plasma pistol, I'd maybe go hunting rifle as his back up later on to give him some range...
 
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