N18 Some rules clarification questions (phelynx, phase trait, versatile)

[Srednak]

So I have couple of questions for our upcoming campaign. I did try to search answers for these ones, but couldn't find answers. First thing is about weapon trait: Phase. When it ignores armour, what doesn’t it ignore? Armored undersuit, CGC Butcher’s mask, something else?

Also how about engaged Phelynx (or other exotic pets): if they charge to an enemy and attack and survive reaction attacks and become broken on the end of their activation, do they automatically flee from battle or is there some initiative test to see if they succeed to flee?

3rd one: when you charge into melee, do you have to charge all the way or is there possibility to stop in the range of versatile weapons?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Phase will certainly ignore armoured undersuit. The only special thing about that is that it's modifying, which makes it stack with other armour. This is very valuable, but no indication it is "invulnerable". CGC Butcher's mask is unmodifiable by AP, and I don't see any reason why it would prevent Phase.

I have looked deep and wide at saves in Necromunda and found the following types:
other save types:

• Bonus: A save that can be used in addition to the normal save (and in addition to other bonus saves).
• Unmodifiable by AP: Count the attack as having AP ‘-’.
• Irreducible by AP: Can't be reduced by AP.
• Irreducible: Can't be reduced by any modifiers.
• Unimprovable by armour: Cannot be improved by other armour.
• Unmodifiable: Can't be modified in any way.
• Invulnerable: An unmodifiable save that can always be made regardless of any special rules that would normally ignore the save. If successful, the hit counts as missed (completely ignored).

In general, I think Phase would ignore everything except what I like to call "invulnerable". And this isn't strictly speaking a save, allthough it may function in the same way. Stuff like Mirror Aegis, Dodge skill and Precognition/A Charmed Life. Some of the official rules for saves look random at best and other aspects of saves (llike the lack of types and categories) can make a real mess of things (for example all the combinations of shields a fighter may carry. The official wordings are some times dubious and experimental.

With versatile you can stop in range of the versatile weapon. That's sort of the point. Or simply move within range and then fight.

 

[Srednak]

Thanks for the answers.

Had to wait till my head was clear and rested to really understand those types of saves (English is not my native language).

I think you're right and I was too deep in RAW mindset and also misread little hints:
Butcher's mask doesn't say it's armour and armored undersuit is an equipment. But butcher's mask says that "This save cannot be combined with other armour" and undersuit can "be worn in addition to any armour type". So what phase means is that you can dodge etc it but can't make any armour based armor saves.

I understand that versatiles should be weapons you can take advantage of even when charging and not just hope your charge distance is less than whole way to bases connecting. If someone asks me where it's said in rules I would still like to know. I know you can always move and attack. But if you want the charges +1 attack I would want to able to reference some rule.

We've been playing couple of games to refresh our memories of the rules for I'm gonna arbitrate a short campaign this spring. These are some (maybe niche) questions that have been not clear.

That said: if someone knows how broken pets work if they are engaged I could need that information:

Also how about engaged Phelynx (or other exotic pets): if they charge to an enemy and attack and survive reaction attacks and become broken on the end of their activation, do they automatically flee from battle or is there some initiative test to see if they succeed to flee?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Thanks for the answers.

Had to wait till my head was clear and rested to really understand those types of saves (English is not my native language).

It doesn't help that armour is all over the place with seemingly random wordings depending on what book or year it is from. Why couldn't it just be simple? For example the undersuit you mention, why not have it as combinable armour (armour that you can take in addition to 0-1 other armour)? That's what it effectively is.

For sources on Versatile stopping before B2B during charge, check out N23 rulebook page 103:

Charge (Double): The fighter moves as if making a Move (Simple) action, but adds D3" to the distance they can move. A charging fighter can move to within 1" of one or more enemy fighters that are Standing and either Active or Engaged, or that are Prone and either Pinned or Seriously Injured, but if they do move to within 1" they must have sufficient movement to get into base to base contact with at least one enemy fighter. If they do not have sufficient movement to get into base to base contact, they must stop 1" away. If they are Standing and Engaged at the end of this move, they must immediately make a free Fight (Basic) action. If they are Standing and Engaged with a Prone and Pinned fighter at the end of this move, that fighter changes their status to Standing and Active.

Can move within 1". Doesn't have to. If engaged (with versatile outside B2B/1"), then continue fighting as normal. Ref page 64:

Players should note that in some cases a fighter may be able to Engage an enemy fighter they are not in base to base contact with, or an enemy vehicle that they are not within 1" of. For example, weapons with the Versatile trait allow a fighter to Engage enemy models from further away.

 

[Aulenback]

On exotic beasts and breaking, per the core rule book:

• Exotic Beasts must always end their activation within 3" of their owner. If the Exotic Beast is more than 3" away at the end of its activation, it must pass a Nerve test or become Broken.
• Should an Exotic Beast become Broken, it will run towards its owner when activated rather than for cover. When an Exotic Beast makes a Running for Cover (Double) action, it runs towards its owner. It is only concerned with getting back within 3" of its owner.
• An Exotic Beast that has become Broken automatically rallies if it ends an activation within 3" of its owner (note that, during Campaign play, Exotic Beasts do not gain XP for rallying in this way).
• If the owner is removed from the battlefield for any reason, the Exotic Beast is also removed from play.

So they would make a Nerve test to avoid being broken, as with any fighter plus if they are somehow too far from their owner. If they fail and become broken, they run toward their owner rather than for cover, and they automatically rally if they get close enough to their owner / handler, but gain no XP for that rally.

 

[Srednak]

Thank you. That cleared my mind.

1. Phelynx charges and attacks and gets retaliated but don't die
2. Phelynxes turn ends and it makes nerve test (being to far from Wyld Runner), fails and becomes broken
3. Phelynx immediately makes running for cover (double) action

Here was my problem with Phelynx rule. First running for cover action happens automatically when beast becomes broken. You don't activate it before the next turn:

"If a Broken fighter is Standing and Engaged when activated, they must make an Initiative test. If it is passed, they must move as described previously. Each enemy fighter that is engaged with them makes an Initiative test and if passed, they can make Reaction attacks before the Broken fighter is moved. If the Broken fighter fails the Initiative test, they remain engaged and can perform no further actions."

I know this is unnecessary nitpicking, but it kind of was unclear. Now I think that rules mean that Phelynx doesn't automatically get away from melee but they should make the initiative test to get out as if they were activated.

 

[Aulenback]

On exotic beasts and breaking, per the core rule book:

• Exotic Beasts must always end their activation within 3" of their owner. If the Exotic Beast is more than 3" away at the end of its activation, it must pass a Nerve test or become Broken.
• Should an Exotic Beast become Broken, it will run towards its owner when activated rather than for cover. When an Exotic Beast makes a Running for Cover (Double) action, it runs towards its owner. It is only concerned with getting back within 3" of its owner.

Place a Broken marker on their Fighter card to indicate that the fighter is subject to the Broken condition:

• As soon as a fighter becomes Broken, they will immediately activate (even if they have already been activated this round) and make a Running for Cover (Double)* action.
• If the fighter is Ready, they lose their Ready marker.

• An Exotic Beast that has become Broken automatically rallies if it ends an activation within 3" of its owner (note that, during Campaign play, Exotic Beasts do not gain XP for rallying in this way).
• If the owner is removed from the battlefield for any reason, the Exotic Beast is also removed from play.

So they would make a Nerve test to avoid being broken, as with any fighter plus if they are somehow too far from their owner. If they fail and become broken, they run toward their owner rather than for cover, and they automatically rally if they get close enough to their owner / handler, but gain no XP for that rally.

Yes, inserting the bit from Nerve Tests on a completely different page to the Broken Condition rules on yet another page ends up being necessary to piece it all together. Sigh. Of course. Thank you for reminding about the "extra" activation for freshly Broken fighters on first failing their Nerve Test. I had missed that entirely and was thinking it would happen when the Phelynx was next activated. And was about to post the very same. But then went hunting. I somehow after all these years since 1989 forget that many rules by GW are split up, with bits of them in very different sections of the book, needing to be tied back together.

 

[Srednak]

Place a Broken marker on their Fighter card to indicate that the fighter is subject to the Broken condition:

• As soon as a fighter becomes Broken, they will immediately activate (even if they have already been activated this round) and make a Running for Cover (Double)* action.
• If the fighter is Ready, they lose their Ready marker.

Oh, there it is. This is what I've missed:

• As soon as a fighter becomes Broken, they will immediately activate

There is no ambiguity here. Just very hard case of figuring it out

 

[Beebopalulla]

Careful not every pet respect the general rules of no more then three inch from it's master. in the same book as the PHELYNX, you have the PHYRR CAT wich has "

Independent: Unlike other Exotic Pets, a Phyrr Cat must always try to remain within 9" of its owner rather than the usual 3".

 

[Aulenback]

A surprising number have that nine inch range, at this point. Each time so far expressed as an exception to the general three inch rule,