Starting Cult of Chaos gang - Help?

[OPheliate]

First post.

So, i've bought models and purchased everything. I wound up with this:
https://yaktribe.games/underhive/gang/the_scarlet_river.27639/

Thing is, I haven't played a game of Necromunda yet, and I was wondering if there are things I shoulc know/take into account with a chaos gang? I also have an Orlock gang ready, but there are many posts about them already.

So, what exactly are the pros and cons of a chaos gang?

Also, what power and gear should a Witch have? Support, or attacker?

As a side-note:
I am so happy I found the old cultist models form the Dark Vengeance box on an online auction, will look awesome in a Necromunda game!

 

[Lucifugem]

It seems you are using the old rules for chaos cults, I recommend getting the new pdf from GW first. Other than that I think you need more cultists and less grenades to start with. Witch is definitely support, 5+ BS and WS are not good for anything. Chaos familiar is also highly recommended.

 

[Thorgor]

The new Chaos cult rules can be found here. The tools may not have been updated yet so you may have to turn-off HWL restrictions to add some of the new equipment.

Is the gang destined to play in a Turf war or a Dominion campaign?
Chaos cults have a significant advantage in Turf War since they can start with one extra champion compared to other gangs (the Witch) and have no reputation-based limit on how many Champions they can have (and their gangers are only 35c, which means opening slots for Champion is relatively cheap). This advantage is way less noticeable in Dominion campaign since it doesn't have a Work the turf post-battle action (but it will still make rare items easier to find, ensure you can always go see the doc if needed, and give you more BS3+ dudes with access to heavy weapons.)

As a chaos cult, the cheap cost-effective loadouts for your gangers are the same as Cawdor: 10c can buy you either a reclaimed autogun or a reclaimed autopistol and an axe. You also have access to the same 55c grenade-launcher than Goliaths.
I wouldn't bother giving cultists any armour (they are expendable cannon fodder and easily replaced) but the others deserve mesh armour and both the demagogue and the witch should get a familiar each (for the Willpower-based additional save).

 

[OPheliate]

Thanks for the info, I had no idea that the YakTribe tool wasn't updated. I also realize that of course an extra cultist or two instead of grenades are a better option.

Thanks both of you, I will make corrections accordingly!

 

[OPheliate]

The new Chaos cult rules can be found here. The tools may not have been updated yet so you may have to turn-off HWL restrictions to add some of the new equipment.

Is the gang destined to play in a Turf war or a Dominion campaign?
Chaos cults have a significant advantage in Turf War since they can start with one extra champion compared to other gangs (the Witch) and have no reputation-based limit on how many Champions they can have (and their gangers are only 35c, which means opening slots for Champion is relatively cheap). This advantage is way less noticeable in Dominion campaign since it doesn't have a Work the turf post-battle action (but it will still make rare items easier to find, ensure you can always go see the doc if needed, and give you more BS3+ dudes with access to heavy weapons.)

As a chaos cult, the cheap cost-effective loadouts for your gangers are the same as Cawdor: 10c can buy you either a reclaimed autogun or a reclaimed autopistol and an axe. You also have access to the same 55c grenade-launcher than Goliaths.
I wouldn't bother giving cultists any armour (they are expendable cannon fodder and easily replaced) but the others deserve mesh armour and both the demagogue and the witch should get a familiar each (for the Willpower-based additional save).

I followed your advise, had to make som custom gear/skills in the tool (the familiar, some new power for the witch etc) and also re-calculate cost. I think I am very happy with the gang composition now, and with the new rules, the gang def feels more unique! I added familiars to both demagogue and witch, downgraded my gear, removed grenades, and ended up with two more gangers, making it a total of 12 (if I include the familiars. If not, 10 is still a good amount! My friend will be playing van Saar and has like... five!)

Will be looking for a Cult Icon and also buying knives for my rifle-gangers (the models have bayonets, and I like flavour over min-maxing).

Thanks a lot for making things a bit clearer for me, especially that the rules had been updated, don't know how I missed that!

 

[Lokd0wn]

Something to take into consideration for the Witch if you want some more offence is the Warp Strength-Grenade "Psychic Shotput" combo. Especially with the new weapons list, Incendiary charges being chucked 15" can be real nasty.

 

[Kitcar]

First post.

I am so happy I found the old cultist models form the Dark Vengeance box on an online auction, will look awesome in a Necromunda game!

Ditto here (just ran across them today, new models essentially eh?

"PSYCHIC SHOTPUT"?! Then we need the "INTESTINAL JAVELIN".

 

[Major Sharpe]

If you're starting a cult of chaos gang, you don't need help.

In all seriousness though, you can either play Cult competitively which means taking the maximum number of autogun cultists you can pack into a list (18 bodies if you give everyone reclaimed autoguns and leave the witch unarmed), or you can be a decent human being and do what you've done which is make a fun list.

My only real feedback would be in regard to your skills:

-For the captain: I don't find Commanding Presence to be a very useful skill. You may find situational uses for it, but generally speaking mass activations give your opponent an advantage as they can reserve more models to act after you've acted. Where having a bigger mass activation is useful is in crunch situations where both gangs are in close quarters and you want to get priority in multiple close combats or something. Overseer is a much better skill in general and is a much better skill for your gang specifically. It has good synergy with your flamer and when you eventually can afford Demo Charges and Incendiary Grenades it will be a great tool to slingshot expendable cultists into your opponent.

-For the flamer champ: Fearsome is not a bad skill, but it's a bad 1st skill. Flamers are horrifying and the models that carry them have a very high target priority for your opponent. This guy is going to draw a lot of fire and how you position him will probably be the most significant decision you make on any given turn. Nerves of Steel will help you avoid being pinned and keep you able to move & fire, because that 8" template does not go far. Alternatively, you can run your dude with True Grit and make him far more survivable against shooting attacks. His advances should probably be Nerves of Steel > T4 > True-Grit.

-For the final champ... Infiltrate is pretty good. My only concern is that it's usually best to go big with infiltrate and take at least 2 infiltrators. That said, giving this guy a demo charge or incendiary grenade and infiltrating him onto a rooftop or just up to the middle of the board sends his threat level through the roof.

As a final comment, at the time of reading you are 25 credits over the limit. I'd consider dropping a familiar off your captain and getting rid of some of the knives/autopistols you have as backup weapons. You're probably going to want to find the points to put mesh armor on your characters, or at the very least, on your flamer champ.

 

[OPheliate]

If you're starting a cult of chaos gang, you don't need help.

In all seriousness though, you can either play Cult competitively which means taking the maximum number of autogun cultists you can pack into a list (18 bodies if you give everyone reclaimed autoguns and leave the witch unarmed), or you can be a decent human being and do what you've done which is make a fun list.

My only real feedback would be in regard to your skills:

-For the captain: I don't find Commanding Presence to be a very useful skill. You may find situational uses for it, but generally speaking mass activations give your opponent an advantage as they can reserve more models to act after you've acted. Where having a bigger mass activation is useful is in crunch situations where both gangs are in close quarters and you want to get priority in multiple close combats or something. Overseer is a much better skill in general and is a much better skill for your gang specifically. It has good synergy with your flamer and when you eventually can afford Demo Charges and Incendiary Grenades it will be a great tool to slingshot expendable cultists into your opponent.

-For the flamer champ: Fearsome is not a bad skill, but it's a bad 1st skill. Flamers are horrifying and the models that carry them have a very high target priority for your opponent. This guy is going to draw a lot of fire and how you position him will probably be the most significant decision you make on any given turn. Nerves of Steel will help you avoid being pinned and keep you able to move & fire, because that 8" template does not go far. Alternatively, you can run your dude with True Grit and make him far more survivable against shooting attacks. His advances should probably be Nerves of Steel > T4 > True-Grit.

-For the final champ... Infiltrate is pretty good. My only concern is that it's usually best to go big with infiltrate and take at least 2 infiltrators. That said, giving this guy a demo charge or incendiary grenade and infiltrating him onto a rooftop or just up to the middle of the board sends his threat level through the roof.

As a final comment, at the time of reading you are 25 credits over the limit. I'd consider dropping a familiar off your captain and getting rid of some of the knives/autopistols you have as backup weapons. You're probably going to want to find the points to put mesh armor on your characters, or at the very least, on your flamer champ.

That's a lot of useful tips, especially on the skills. And yeah, i tend to play more like roleplay, i want Immersion and story more than i want to win

I will make some more corrections! Thanks a lot!

 

[Punktaku]

are the Chaos Gods not a thing in N17?!?

(Grognard grumbling ...)

 

[Thorgor]

are the Chaos Gods not a thing in N17?!?

Of course they are.
A chaos cult can perform a ritual to the god of their choosing after each game and, if it's successful, gain the corresponding favour for the next game. By default, you can pray a different god each game (though it carries a penalty on the ritual roll) but it's possible to always pray the same god if you want to (for instance, if you modelled your gang as followers of a specific god). I heard Tzeench is quite popular these days (the favours aren't exactly balanced.)

 

[Punktaku]

ahh... so that's why it wasn't part of gang creation. gotcha.

edit: still going to turn the new "cawdor" into a Khorne cult.... when i get them.

 

[Major Sharpe]

The Cult rituals may not be balanced against each other, but they're also just not well balanced against the rest of the game. Even without the ritual mechanics Chaos Cult is the best gang in the game. It's no contest by a wide margin.

With the ritual mechanics cult gets a hugely unfair special rule. They suffer no drawbacks for it and no other gang gets anything comparable.

I feel like this happens with every iteration of Chaos in a GW game. The dev studio, gothy nerds that they are, obviously have a favorite faction.

 

[Thorgor]

Are they still that good in Dominion campaign? I get that they can easily win a Turf War through sheer economic power, but now that most scenarios have a 10 models cap it looks like a small elite gang like Van Saar would be better than a 'horde' gang in a Dominion campaign.

I agree that the ritual mechanics not having any drawback is a problem though. Even worse, the 'penalty' for failure is that you may turn one of your dudes into a free brute.

 

[Major Sharpe]

Fair point about dominion campaigns. We haven't done one yet because our local player base hasn't quite stabilised. Still, rituals seem like a pretty bogus boon considering that, as you said, failing them is typically more desirable than passing.

 

[OPheliate]

Also, considerong my gang going over budget, it was quite finicky trying to calculate prices as the prices in the new gang description doesntd match with the prices in the tool. I am patiently and expectabtly awaiting an update.

 

[SumpRat]

Would it be worth turning the roll of a double into a failure?

I.e. the Gods are not watching?

Or make it a once per cycle thing?

Got two lads looking at doing Chaos Cult in the new year, and if it’s that worrisome I can have a look.