Starting Escher- a few modeling questions

[Merzbau]

I'm a newcomer to Necromunda- always loved the look of it in White Dwarf as a kid, but it was impossible to get hold of and even fewer people played it in Alabama than other GW games. I want to jump in to N17, with the goal of eventually rounding up some people for a campaign, but in the meantime I'd like to start building the models for a decent, all-rounder starting gang.

I've been picking up what I can on the forums over the past few days, and I have a few decisions that I'd like to build around:

1. Escher have always been my favorite gang, so I'm willing to splash out on one of the FW weapon packs. I think I'm settled on pack #1- I like the aiming pose for the needle rifle in #2, but #1 has open poses for both it and the heavy stubber that will make it easier to glue and start playing before I paint. If there are any reasons I should change my mind, I'm open to them.
2. On that point, I want to model my leader wearing the coat, which means some combination of needle pistol, needle/bolter, chainsword and shock whip to begin with. I only have Gang War 1, which I bought with the core game at release (other projects have kept me away for quite a while), and I'm waiting on the compilation books to invest any further, but I like the chainsword/needle pistol combo to keep costs down. This is totally open to change, of course, and I'm planning on at least one alternate model for the leader so I can give her something more shooty, but I'm trying to pick from those four weapons. If it's any help, I think I want to avoid Overseer, because it seems to samey and dull- to my mind, leaders should be *doing* things, not standing at the back slingshotting their underlings forward (well, maybe for Cult gangs...)
3. It seems that without exception, gangs' special weapons (rivet cannon, crossbow et al) are mediocre, but I want to build a Chem-thrower for rule of cool- I want to lean into toxin weapons for thematic reasons.

So far, I'm looking at the following for my initial ten-model build:
1. Leader with one of the weapon combinations above
2. Champion with chem-thrower
3. Ganger with needle rifle
4, 5, 6: Gangers with lasguns (I know it's important to use Escher's improved access as well as having pinning weapons)
7. Juve with stubber and stiletto knife

My biggest questions at the moment:
-Is it worth taking a second Juve this early on, or would that be a liability?
-Am I good for lasguns or should I go a bit more? I'd love to fit a shotgun with acid rounds in there, even if it means starting without the acid.
-Should I build to try and fit a Champion with a plasma gun in there? I want to play for fun, not WAAC, and if having one off the bat would be too powerful I'm not going to do it.
-Are gunfighters worth it? Rule of cool practically dictates that I build at least one unless it's such a bad idea that it would be dead weight.

 

[Cyreth]

Some thoughts:

• I started out with two Juves -- Escher Juves equipped with at least one stiletto knife each are probably the best Juves.
• Weapons with the Toxin trait are quite evil.
  
• Lasguns are all right for the first games -- upgrade them with hotshot las packs or new toys (maybe more needle rifles or some close combat weapons) as soon as you can. I threw in another Ganger with a shotgun who'll hopefully get acid rounds sometime soon.
  
• I've forsaken the chem thrower in favour of a plasma gun for one of my Champions (the other one's got a power sword and a plasma pistol). Mostly because I had built the model and really liked it. So far, that Champion has been very deadly ...
• By gunfighters, do you mean fighters with two pistols? That probably depends on the boards you're playing on. I think I can say with confidence that they aren't terrible ... (And you could still give them a third weapon.)
  
• Keep in mind that both parts of the combi bolter/needler have terrible ammo rolls and the Combi trait -- the weapons are good, but run Out of Ammo easily and are then almost impossible to reload (at least with the rules as written).

 

[MusingWarboss]

My only thought at the moment is that a Champion with a Chem thrower is a bit wasteful. Give the chem thrower to a ganger instead as it’s a template weapon. Then you can Plasma up a champ.

You may as well take advantage of their better bs. (Unless that’s changed somewhere along the line).

 

[Merzbau]

Thanks! I was leaning away from the combi-bolter to begin with for cost reasons but I hadn't realized the ammo situation was quite *that* bad. Between the shock whip and chainsword, I'm leaning toward the chainsword for parry; 20 credit savings over a power sword certainly don't hurt either for the early going. I suppose I could go five higher for a stiletto sword, but the bitchin' coat is just enough to tip me back toward the chainsword.

Barring a points reduction, the chem-thrower really does seem subpar- it's a damn shame that gangs' unique trademark weapons never seem to be the best choice, or even particularly good. Point definitely taken about giving the chem-thrower to a regular ganger; I guess I was defaulting back to Kill Team (the game that's been taking up most of my time) and thinking that only the Champion could take one. I'll reconsider including it from the outset and lean toward plasma- it seems like that might be important to have for the mission (I forget the title) where the attacker has to destroy targets.

 

[sumpthing]

I built my leader with the coat and carefully snipped off the whip at the handle and replaced it with a sword blade for that sweet sweet stiletto sword. It currently has the bolter/needler but eventually I will get around to converting it to a plain bolter.

 

[MakaroniFresser]

I'd say, build your gang the way you would if you were playing a campaign and running away with it in victories and cash. That way you can skirmish with people with a wide range of gang options, made even easier with Yaktribe's tools and ability to clone your gang. Once you start a campaign, you'll pare down your crew but will have new recruits waiting to go (or an upgrade, with the ganger's old model becoming a new recruit). My group is okay with a model not really having a held weapon yet for the first game or two.

A few specifics:
As mentioned above (and contrary to the box set's loadout), template weapons are wasted on champs. Put it on a ganger. If you are slow to paint models, that chem thrower could also be a flamer
Put long range weapons on your leader. If your leader dies in a campaign, there's no way to get someone else with her stats back, which admittedly are only superior for Ld and Attacks. Skirmishes, go nuts, there's no risk.
Definitely take a shotgun. I like it, and I never added any extra ammo to it, though I appreciate the flexibility. Solid shot is a nice cheap S4 weapon at the start of a campaign, scattershot has its uses (flesh wounded enemies, for one). With just those two, my shotgunner is usually #2 or 3 in kills. Escher are fast and can get to close range easier, with no reaction attacks like CC.
Try to give everyone two CC weapons so you get an extra attack in CC. Pistols count for this. You don't want your dedicated sniper defending some surprise charge, usually due to tactics cards or reinforcements, with only 1 unarmed attack.
Mesh armor on champs and leaders, minimum. Its cheap, and in a campaign you can give the flak it replaces to your juves.
Toxin is good, it is brutal in its effects, but usually not its wounding %. My top melee champ dual wields Stiletto and Power swords...because I needed that backup after rolling the hits and toxin on the other sometimes.
Build your juves, and use them in skirmish. For campaign, maybe start with one, but have cards for more ready to go. If you are playing the Dominion campaign, between the Settlement territory you start with and the House Favors table, you will get free juves. If you're already at your max number at the start, you can't take the free ones. I found one or no juves at start frees up credits for some other useful stuff, like smoke grenades or wargear.
Unlike Goliath's stimm-slugs, the chem synths are essentially useless. Ranged, its either Aim or ChemSynth, and you're better off aiming. CC, you have to pass Cool check, and Escher aren't the best at that. I have one in my 9-person crew, and I've used it exactly once in the campaign.

Hope this helps. I'm in with the ladies for the long haul, so feel free to ask questions or share tips you discover!

 

[UnderhiveGangstar]

"Put long range weapons on your leader. If your leader dies in a campaign, there's no way to get someone else with her stats back"

This is not quite true, in GW4, the promotion text was changed allowing you to gain the new promoted profile but retain your current stats. This means you can now gain advancements on a champ to make them the same as a leaders stats. It may not be cost effective due to the GR cost, you could be more expensive than a real leader, but I suppose if that ever happens, you would have no choice anyway.

Because you keep the current stat line, a Juve can be promoted to a champ but keep its movement stat advances, going beyond what a real champ or leader could have (up to M8).

Stat increases are still capped, but the cap is on the models profile type, ie a Champ that becomes a Leader is now a Leader profile. For example, a S2 Escher Juve would be capped to advancing to S4 (two advancements), but could be promoted to Champ and then advance to S5.

 

[ten_kage]

I have been running an escher gang for a few games alreasy and in our group two of my regulars had also in the past.
I have learnt that definitely plasma weapon are your best fiend. Needle rifle and stiletto weapon are also nice, but can let you down in a Goliath-heavy envionment.
The chem thrower will not be bad if pinned its targets, but, alas it does not. You really cannot risk getting so close to the enemy to see them resisting your poisonus gas as if they were just mere farts.
Use the chainsword on somebody you plan to use offensively, while consider the power sword as an ulterior protection for your leader (only power weapon can parry other power weapon, so the parry ability of the chainsword will be useless against, for example, a powerhammer).
Alos, do not rely to much on parry.
On a final note, try to think in advance the sinergy between your champions skill and their equipment. Spring up is very good for champions with heavy weapons (almost act as nerves of steel, or even better sometimes) or to ensure you will be able to charge. Side Step is also a very good defensive ability.
Same goes on your leader. Think of her role. Will she be an overseeing leader? in that case better stay cheap on the equipment, as she will not use it often. Will she be in charge of a fire team? then go for the combi bolter and one sword as deterrent. and so on.
If possible, try to include a shotgun in your starting crew. the extra strenght is a blessing and the acid rounds are golden.
I was able to start with 4 gangers: 2 lasguns, 1 shotgun and 1 autogun. I only had one juve though.

 

[Merzbau]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! This has given me a lot of food for thought. I do ideally want to model at least one equipment set for my leader with the coat, but it really seems like the available options are subpar (and I don't want to deal with pinning a replacement sword in place, not least because it seems like the angle it's held at would be awkward anyway). So with that in mind, I'm nudging my FW purchase toward set 2- whose needle rifle pose I like way more anyway- and a plasma gun (with at least an ornate shoulder plate) for my leader to keep her a little away from the front line and take advantage of her BS. There's also the benefit of one more stub gun, and the more parts that aren't available in plastic the better value in my view.

I'll think about the rest of the lineup once I'm off work and see what I can slap together.

 

[Merzbau]

A followup- irlZombie, I must have scrolled past and missed your photo! That actually looks way better than I thought that combination of parts would turn out, and is making me reconsider a little. It's a shame there aren't any sheathed swords available, at least not with the instantly recognizable Escher style.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

Don't write off the bolter/needler just because of the combi ammo roll. It's been my star weapon so far for Escher and I've yet to run out of ammo on both parts.

A power sword is the better option for the leader as it gives you parry against any weapon. While parry is not as good as it used to be, it's still useful to have. Heres how I converted mine. The sword is from a spare Raging Heroes model.

I don't know how good you are at converting but it should be possible to change that combi weapon into a standard needle rifle or even a plasma rifle with the right bits if you want to keep the leaders coat.

For sheathed swords I've been using the ones from the High Elf Dragon Prince kit. Not a perfect match for the Escher style but I think they look good (it is a shame that sheathed and holstered weapons have been forgotten about by specialist games in N17).

 

[sumpthing]

A followup- irlZombie, I must have scrolled past and missed your photo! That actually looks way better than I thought that combination of parts would turn out, and is making me reconsider a little. It's a shame there aren't any sheathed swords available, at least not with the instantly recognizable Escher style.

Thanks mate, an easy snip at the top of the hilt and then some patience gluing.