Starting house and gang for a campaign...

[spafe]

Okay guys, with any luck I’m actually going to be getting some games in soon. A new campaign is starting (hopefully!) at the end of this month/start of next that will run monthly. I will track my gangs progress on here, I think there may be a campaign thread but we will see how much will power there is behind this…

So my question for you guys is thus, what gang? I’ve narrowed it down to 2 real choices, goliath and cawdor. Of the other 3 guys playing, one is using goliath, another is using delaque, and the 3rd is unknown. Now initially I was set on breaking out my cawdor for a proper innings since they got painted last year (and rather epically failed to make an impression on the little dorritt campaign before being seen off back into the wastes). However I picked up a set of 10 new style goliaths at salute the other weekend, and would love an incentive to get them done. Model wise I have approx. 30 goliaths already finished, so 40 odd once these ones are done, and I have 16 cawdor.

Goliath pros:
Huge model range of load outs to choose from
Get to use brand new models (to me)
Goliaths are cool

Goliath cons:
Someone else is already using them
Will have to paint up 10 guys reasonably quickly when time is short
There’s a crap ton of stubguns

Cawdor pros:
All painted already
No-one else (thus far) is using them in the campaign
Cawdor are cool

Cawdor cons:
‘Only’ 16 to choose from, although I have some DV cultists still who could be converted up if needs arise
Suspicions that the god emperor does not favour my heathen soul

Okay, so that’s a real world factor. That’s got me not so sure. However looking over the models I have, I have the following two lists as my potential starters, these are what I think I would be happy with, and let me use fun models/combos, so if either of these jumps out as being massively better or you think should decide which I should play, shout out.

Cawdor:
Leader, meltagun, sword, autopistol
Heavy, flamer, autopistol
Heavy, autogun, heavy stubber
Ganger, shotgun, manstopper
Ganger, autogun
Ganger, autogun
Juve, stubgun
Juve, autopistol
Juve, autopistol, club
Juve, autopistol, flail
Ratskin scout, hunting rifle
35 creds left

Goliath:
Leader, autopistol, club
Heavy, autocannon
Heavy, meltagun, shotgun
Ganger, lasgun
Ganger, stubgun, chainsword
Ganger, stubgun, club
Ganger, shotgun
Juve, laspistol
Juve, stubgun
0 creds left

So fellow yakkers, please give me some opinions on what I should use. In typing this out I’m leaning slightly more towards the cawdor, mainly so theres not two of the same gangs running around, and I’m preferring that starting list a little bit. But I could still be swayed either way…

 

[Shadowbadger]

I personally prefer the look and feel of Cawdor although I would suggest going with whichever you think you will enjoy most. 16 models is more than enough to begin with and it would not be hard as you say to paint up a couple of Cultists to fill any gaps.

Of the 2 lists I also think the Cawdor one is better.

 

[trollmeat]

Scavvies! Paint your Carnival! :-D

(voted Cawdor for badger's reasons... also, meltagun should be on leader, not heavy - anyone who sets leader as close combat specialist wants to get them blasted to bits. Meltagun says "stay away")

 

[spafe]

Thanks guys for the feedback. @Shadowbadger , I think you are right, I can make some extras with funky loadouts after a game or two if I need too.

@trollmeat haha, Its house gangs only I think (and I quite look forward to running a house list for a decent length camapaign). I get what you mean about the meltagun on the leader, I do have a leader with a meltagun for the goliaths too, but the reason I'm swayed by them is to get use out of the new models, which happen to be a heavy with meltagun and shotgun...

So its looking more and more likely to be cawdor at the moment

 

[hreikin]

goliath, purely because you (i) dont see enough autocannons being fielded these days

you could use the heavy model as the leader until you have some creds/stat increases to swap things about ?

 

[spafe]

Hmm, you make a good point Hreikin, I do like the idea of using some less common heavy weapons....

I've almost secured an additional 7 useful cawdor/redemptionists, so if I include a couple of likely cultists in the next batch I paint up then I should be at roughly 25 available models for cawdor, alleviating one of the cons for using them a little.

Current swaying still has me looking at the cawdor (although potentially with the idea of converting up a missile launcher or similar...)

 

[cardyfreak]

I've run both gangs in my stalled campaign and had an absolute blast with both. My cawdor gang was pretty standard fare using the original models with no conversions. A couple of them became legendary, namely the leader Lanegan and the heavy Stubber wielding Sutcliffe. Lanegan was an animal in close combat. It took a mama Spyrer three rounds of combat to eventually put him down, but his hands were well swathed in blood before that. Sutcliffe was a beast shot and medic to boot, but nowhere near as cool as the leader. Predictably the gang favoured close up encounters as their skill set defines, and if the terrain was set up quite open they would usually suffer. I've since made a lot of conversions so don't know how radically having exotic weapons would affect them but I predict it would be awesome.
Then we come to my Goliath gang. I went all out the starting gear for these guys, giving my heavy an autocannon and the leader a meltagun. The gang was pretty undefeatable. The autocannon just wasted people instantly. I killed van saar, enforcers, scavvies, cultists, anything that was silly enough to step out into view was destroyed. The melta was pretty much the same. My leader also had some shooting skills so had twin boltpistols for gunfighter, and his hipshooter skill effectively added an extra 4" on the range of the melta. He was particularly nasty.
So I'd say use cawdor but if possible use the Goliath list. I enjoyed playing as both but Cawdor rule, plus there's already Goliaths strutting around the place. I reckon a DV heavy could easily be converted to wield an autocannon, then the fear can really cleanse the heretics.

 

[sonofruss]

Goliath's because mohawks, chains and autocannons. And the juves are easy to convert to autopistoliers as are the gangers. and the names! Brutus McSmash, Lex Steeliton, Hue Liftonne

Edit BTW, i purchased a autocannon 3 games back, for a BS 5 heavy, and im honestly disappointed with it. it could be my rollling but 1 D3 sustained fire just doesnt cover the ground as well as a stubber, if u get bum rushed down a alley u dont have the fire power to stop a well lead (high LD) charge.
im seriously considering taking the 130cred loss and selling it to buy a heavy bolter.

 

[spafe]

See I did run a goliath gang a few years ago and had similar fun with the names (hilltop, grizzly, gobsmack were some gangers, rat, whizz kid and lucy were some juves ), so I do get that aspect @sonofruss

Thanks for the reply Cardy, that's a pretty useful play style experience with em. I have a heavy bolter model, so could switch it up and start with that, or like you say, convert up an auto cannon to start with (part of me is tempted by the missile launcher...). Is it only the heavy weapon side you think I should rejig with the cawdor? Part of me is preferring the mass juves and load outs for the rest of the gang, and if I drop the scout I have 50 creds to easily throw into more fun heavy weapons (70 if I also forgo the heavies back up).

I think I'm set on cawdor now guys, although the poll was barely a majority to them. They will fit with the campaign better, and gives me reason to expand their model range a bit (instantly giving me some outlanders in the form of redemptinists ). So now its just to list tweaks based on models I have/can convert up...

Edit: as a side note, ignoring outlanders, my 3 house gangs I realized all are the ferocity gangs, goliath, cawdor and orlock . Methinks there may have been some subconscious favoring's towards them lol

 

[simon]

Yup, Cawdor. Give them another chance to prove themselves!

Another reason would be that if your opponents new to Necromunda an autocannon might be a bit much. You don't want to be high-impact-killing all their guys in the first few games! A melta seems a bit less OP. My oldest opponent has always used the same Orlock leader with the melta and the number of ones to hit or ones to wound he rolls with it are unreal. It's got to the stage where I take stupid risks because I 'know' he'll roll poorly.

 

[cardyfreak]

My Cawdor gang ran a heavy bolter and it is by far the best heavy weapon in the game. Two sustained fire dice, d3 wounds per shot, but at the expense of a worse ammo roll (6+). It is a serious piece of kit. But I found the autocannon particularly adept at wasting people. As in actually killing the model. Sure it only has one sustained fire dice but it causes high impact hits that inflict d6 wounds! And it's ammo roll is 4+ so from a cawdor point of view where armourers are hard to come by, the weapon should stay in the game longer. And due to its massive range, you can simply castle the fighter somewhere high and attack at will! It's true Autocannons aren't goor close up, but I'd suggest no heavy weapon apart from flamers should ever be within touching distance of an enemy fighter; it doesn't matter how many sustained fire dice it has, if you fail an ammo roll on the first shot you're screwed!
As to the composition of the gang, Cawdor do well with a high number, swarm mentality. Use a ganger with a shotgun as a pack leader and stick two or three Juves with him and call them a squad. Arm up two or three squads and you've got a pretty nice hunting tactic open to you; the extra d6 in combat for juves more than makes up for their low WS, and seeing as they're disposable, when your ganger gets close enough he can just blast a scattershot she'll into the fray ensuring he always hits the enemy! Ruthless but fun! I like to think Cawdor treat their young extremely harshly, when I was trying to come up with a house perks system one of my Cawdor ones was that juves don't count towards bottle rolls, promoting exactly this kind of tactic- high number swarming of juves getting mown down en masse!

 

[simon]

@cardyfreak You're a cruel man. Cruel but fair.

 

[spafe]

I think I am getting swayed very much into the heavy bolter camp (and I fricken love that model!). Then when I get a specialist to give the flamer to I can save for the stubber on the second heavy

Cardy, that tends to be my tactic (or at least what I aim for), but good to know its a tried and true method. I will continue to strive for that. My goliaths went with mas juve swarm as well, and that worked alright for them. So time for the novices of the church to earn their palce too methinks!

I will work on a revised list soon. Still torn between heavy bolter and auto cannon a bit, so will likely write a list for both

 

[spafe]

Okay, here are my revised lists for starting with a heavy bolter or an autocannon:


Heavy bolter option:
Leader, meltagun, sword, autopistol
Heavy, flamer, autopistol
Heavy, autogun, heavy bolter
Ganger, shotgun, manstopper
Ganger, autogun
Ganger, autogun
Juve, stubgun
Juve, autopistol
Juve, autopistol
Juve, autopistol, flail
0 creds left

Autocannon option:
Leader, meltagun, sword, autopistol
Heavy, flamer, stubgun
Heavy, autocannon
Ganger, shotgun
Ganger, autogun
Ganger, autogun
Juve, stubgun
Juve, autopistol
Juve, autopistol
0 creds left

So the heavy bolter option has an autogun backup. 10 men, no reserve creds or hired gun. The autocannon option has 9 men (drops an income bracket but one less juve), no back up on the heavy but his ammo roll is 4+, and the flamers backup goes down to a stubgun, plus I lose man stopper rounds on the shotgun.

Thoughts or counter tweak proposals. I'm currently not sure which of those two or the original cawdor list I'm preferring, will have some more thinking to do. Thanks for all the replies guys, its quite interesting hearing different views on the choices

 

[simon]

I would still be wary about two high impact weapons in the starting lineup (depending on your opponents!).

 

[spafe]

If I was to swap the meltagun for a boltgun and get a scout and extra juve do you think that could be worth looking at (on the assumption that I get time to paint up new guys I'll have the alternative leader model coming that I'd love to field too). Then its only one HI weapon in the autocannon...

 

[sonofruss]

the autopistol is kinda wasted on the leader? u wouldnt get the extra attack so just the sword for the parry and either get a scout for the auto cannon option or give the autopistol to the juve and drop his stubgun, upgrade the flamers stubgun to a autopistol and u have 5C left for MSR's
and as for the ammo roll on the Hbolter, if ur playing a tile campaign go for the workshops first up, or roll every advance u can on techno till u get weaponsmith.
personally im not a fan on meltas, i know ur aiming for multiple hi impacts, but the range means u really have to be in there in the danger zone for a kill.

 

[spafe]

Autopistol is to give some range on the meltagun model (those 4" are the longest in any game!), but I do take your point, for the autocannon set up I could easily dro the pistol and make those other changes. I'm quite likeing that way round if I keep the meltagun. Although now I'm torn between that and the boltgun on the leader and extra juve+scout.

It wont be a tile campaign I don't think so would be relying on techno rolls... Which isn't that bad as I tend to favour techno on the any skill roll anyway.

The melta just screams cawdor, redemptionists, and awesomeness-melting-heathen-scums-faces (yes its a real thing!)

 

[sonofruss]

Keep the meltagun, just ur first 15creds will be to buy a auto pistol. Personally I'd buy him a autogun 5creds for the extra range and it won't affect ur cc and when a juve mans up to a ganger u should have enough cred to buy a boltgun for leader and drop the autogun to a new ganger

 

[spafe]

Okay, I'm thinking that I'll go with the heavy bolter option, as tempting as the autocannon is, its a relaxed campaign I think, and Simon raises a good point about the potential joy killing of using 2 HI weapons in a starting list. I will however drop the auto pistol to free up credits for a scout for the first game, as I'm thinking my tactics will be to quickly grow the juves by throwing them into fights and letting the strongest/luckiest shine through, and hope the scout kicks me a territory so I can start allowing for a higher gang number.