N18 Starting with 3 champions

Fyastarter

Juve
Aug 24, 2021
22
23
8
Am I missing something or is it perfectly possible to start a campaign with a leader and 3 champions provided you have 4 or more others with the gang fighter ability? I see so many gangs only taking 2. Why wouldn't you take a third if you can move the credits around to make it work? Did one of the older rule books say you can only have two? I know there are a few gangs with built in limitations, but the hive war book and house gang books certainly don't seem to...
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
4,701
10,856
148
37
Sevres 92130 France
Did one of the older rule books say you can only have two?
Yes, this.
House gangs built from Gangs of the Underhive can't have more than 2 champions in their starting roster, and the same is true for most gangs from The Book of #### series (except for Corpse Grinders who are capped at 3 both at gang creation and during the campaign.)
 
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Kiro The Avenger

Gang Hero
Apr 4, 2018
1,574
2,051
128
Bristol, UK
Although the new House Of books allow taking as many champions as you want, most still start with 2 because at 1000cr it's very hard to fit a third whilst maintaining numbers.
 
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Fyastarter

Juve
Aug 24, 2021
22
23
8
House gangs built from Gangs of the Underhive can't have more than 2 champions in their starting roster, and the same is true for most gangs from The Book of #### series (except for Corpse Grinders who are capped at 3 both at gang creation and during the campaign.)

I'm not seeing that restriction mentioned anywhere in House of Blades, House of Artifice or House of Shadow, I see

"The total number of fighters with the Gang Fighter (X) special rule in the gang must always be equal to, or higher than, the total number fighters without the Gang Fighter (X) special rule combined, not counting Hangers-on or Hired Guns."

Can anyone check the other three house of books for this restriction on champions or point me at the relevant page if I'm wrong? (Happens a lot!) Is it a separate restriction in the campaign rules perhaps? Or is it just a holdover from GOTU that no longer applies to most gangs?
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
4,701
10,856
148
37
Sevres 92130 France
@Fyastarter: It's not in the newest books (House of ##### series), it was in the older books (GotU and The book of ##### series)
The house gangs you are seeing are either built from GotU, or by people who kept the restriction in their local meta as a self-imposed limitation (or didn't realize it was removed).
 
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Fyastarter

Juve
Aug 24, 2021
22
23
8
I see a lot of benefits to maximising champion count at the start, I guess the downside is they won't start with particularly brilliant equipment. Gangers before bangers I guess.
 

Heart of Storm

Gang Hero
Mar 8, 2019
621
875
103
I think 3 champions is something to consider in gang creation, but isn't the default position - 3 champions gives you stronger models, and more post-battle actions, but you'll typically by less well equipped then 2 champion opponents and may find those first few games hard as a result.

Necromunda campaigns tend to result in the top gangs snowballing to a degree so those first wins are probably the most important in the campaign.

Its a shame Genestealer Cults can't do a 3 (or more!) champion start as they're the gang I can see most easily pulling it off
 
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TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
5,206
5,205
193
Norway
Can anyone check the other three house of books for this restriction on champions or point me at the relevant page if I'm wrong? (Happens a lot!) Is it a separate restriction in the campaign rules perhaps? Or is it just a holdover from GOTU that no longer applies to most gangs?
You can read through all change logs of all books since N19 yourself (including all House of books):

There have been no reporting of limit to champions (including specialist variants).
 
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MrAndersson

Gang Hero
Sep 18, 2018
654
446
68
Halmstad, Sweden
Champions are typically the most bang for buck you can get at gang creation. Provided you equip them properly, of course.

So three champions is not only feasible, it might even be the way to go for some of the house gangs. Obviously, since it requires 8 fighters in the initial line-up, Goliath and Van Saar struggle to pull it off.

With Escher, you can even go for four. So, counting your leader and specialist, you can put six grenade launchers on the table for your first game.
 

mateyboy3000

Ganger
May 29, 2017
92
67
18
Champions are typically the most bang for buck you can get at gang creation. Provided you equip them properly, of course.

So three champions is not only feasible, it might even be the way to go for some of the house gangs. Obviously, since it requires 8 fighters in the initial line-up, Goliath and Van Saar struggle to pull it off.

With Escher, you can even go for four. So, counting your leader and specialist, you can put six grenade launchers on the table for your first game.
I have just mathed out your suggestion of 4 champs and 6 nade launchers, it is doable but it would be the most boring list you ever see. You get your 6 nade biddies and 4 naked juves at 985 for the bodies and 6 launchers.
you would be the most glass cannon you could get and people would probably say no I don't want to play you after 1 game though
 

Fyastarter

Juve
Aug 24, 2021
22
23
8
Starting a few champs with cheap loadouts, maybe even just a lasgun and mesh, then buying more gear later seems pretty great.

Off the top of my head. basic bitch las plas

Leader plasma gun mesh 240,
1 Death maiden Mesh claw needle pistol 185
3 Matriarchs lasguns mesh 360

3 gangers lasguns 165 (1 a specisalist)
2 juves stubguns 50

Exactly 1000?

Plenty of las, a touch of plas, a great counter charger, plenty of upgrade paths, but probably staying shooty going forward. Just, keep everyone safe game 1 if poss until you get a another body.
 

mateyboy3000

Ganger
May 29, 2017
92
67
18
The problem with that list is you have just painted a huge bullseye on your leader, she has the only non pistol ranged weapon that does more than plink fire
 

Fyastarter

Juve
Aug 24, 2021
22
23
8
I guess every list will have a problem, but 6 las guns with 3 at BS 3 is a lot of plink. Quantity has a quality all of its own. Leaders are always a prime target however they are equipped anyway. Its just a quick theorycraft on the 4 champ idea though.
 

Fyastarter

Juve
Aug 24, 2021
22
23
8
Cawdor 4 champ list idea mostly range some hitters, should pick up some Polearm blunderbuss goodness after game 1, but there's room to adjust here.

Redemptor Priest MC Chain Axe MC Authpistol Mesh 165
Deacon Grenade launcher Mesh 170
Deacon Mesh Autogun exterminator 135
Firebrand MC long rifle x2 250
Brethren reclaimed autogun x 3 120
Bonepicker stub gun x4 100
 

Fyastarter

Juve
Aug 24, 2021
22
23
8
Van Saar probably bad for this.

3 Champs

Leader Mesh, plasma pistol lasgun 205
Augmek Mesh Plasma gun 225
Augmek Mesh Lasgun hotshot pack x2 310
Specialist Las gun 75
Subtek lasgun x 4 180
995

4 champs 5 subteks, think this is bad

Leader Hotshot lasgun Mesh 175
Augmek Hotshot lasgun Mesh x2 310
Augmek lasgun x 2 270
Subtek lasgun x 5 235
990
 
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Jan 12, 2021
26
21
13
Van Saar probably bad for this.

3 Champs

Leader Mesh, plasma pistol lasgun 205
Augmek Mesh Plasma gun 225
Augmek Mesh Lasgun hotshot pack x2 310
Specialist Las gun 75
Subtek lasgun x 4 180
995

4 champs 5 subteks, think this is bad

Leader Hotshot lasgun Mesh 175
Augmek Hotshot lasgun Mesh x2 310
Augmek lasgun x 2 270
Subtek lasgun x 5 235
990
Indeed. Short of gambling on major power plays in your first couple of games in a campaign with either list, gang fighters in a Van Saar gang generally don't fare well when in nought but their armoured bodygloves.
 

MrAndersson

Gang Hero
Sep 18, 2018
654
446
68
Halmstad, Sweden
I have just mathed out your suggestion of 4 champs and 6 nade launchers, it is doable but it would be the most boring list you ever see. You get your 6 nade biddies and 4 naked juves at 985 for the bodies and 6 launchers.
you would be the most glass cannon you could get and people would probably say no I don't want to play you after 1 game though
I agree that it's not very fun, but probably the best you could do if you wanted to take Escher into a competitive environment.

Of course, you don't have to go that extreme. Keeping the 4 champion theme, 2 grenade launchers, 2 bolters and 2 shotguns would be a lot less spammy, but still a very good list. The saved creds could go into armour, or giving the juves something to play with.