N18 Strange Fighter Categories

[Trance Human]

Does anyone find it weird how GW have divided up the gang fighter types? Its almost as if they're trying to force square pegs into round holes. The expansion boxes for each gang (except perhaps Cawdor, they seem a little different but I'm not familiar with them), contain two new fighter types that are much more specialised and focused than the base ganger types. Base gangs have had a simple progression depending on which ruleset you used - juve-ganger-heavy or juve-champion with ganger being generic though having an upgrade path to specialist. The new fighters and HoX books change this to add a second champion type (ok in itself) and a strange not-quite juve that upgrades to a champion. Issue is theyre just as hyper specialised and focused as their partner champion in the box, yet are considered pretty much juves, but with really good abilities or warmer that clearly set them apart. But because GW didn't want to redesign the roster categories (and have to print another rule book) they mashed one of these new fighter into a "prospect" class. But surely wouldn't it be better for these prospects to form a tier of ganger alongside their box partners? Surely these are the "specialists"? They often work entirely different to regular gangers, flying or climbing around the battlefield, being absolute beasts in combat but limited in anything else or being generally restricted in what weapons they can take.

A more streamlined and logical approach would be to classify the newer types as specialists, a category below the leader. Have champions be they're own category, separate but equal in rank from the specialists. New leaders can be promoted in the same manner as now but can be drawn from either specialists or champions depending on who is the better choice. Regular gangers promote into champions after X number of promotions and can now take special and heavy weapons, or on a rare roll can choose to upgrade to specialists. Juves gain the hot-headed trait that is taken from the former prospects (it should be on them clearly) and they upgrade to regular gangers after X promotions. Much more logical and streamlined. You have your old juve-ganger-heavy/champion upgrade path for your regular fighters and your weird gang-specific fancy boys and girls as elite/special options as they should be. With the option occasionally to promote a ganger to a specialist (they seem to have much more intense or prolonged training requirements than simp,y "getting better rep or experience").

Obviously the stats of these prospects would have to be boosted because they're all stated as juves, despite having access to some of the most expensive wargear or highly specialised abilities in the game.

Anyone else annoyed at the janky arbitrarily low stated propsects?

 

[cronevald]

This is possibly my biggest issue with the way the House books have redefined the gangs. Hyper-specialized fighters that don't play nice with the progression system are exactly what I didn't want for the game, but I also think they do fit neatly into the current game. They've helped me realize why the new game is one that I don't enjoy very much. I much prefer advancement through experience and leveling up as it was done in the original game. The new game just isn't about that. Instead of advancing your gang you grow it by buying fighters whole cloth with all the tools and toys they need for their role included. A system for progression still exists but it has a significantly lesser impact.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Well, yeah they’ve awkwardly shoved in some new categories because they wanted some fancy “specialist” types. Hence their names. Now all classes have a basic or special type other than the leader (yet).

It would’ve been better if they’d had upgrade paths to lead to these types like:

Juve > Ganger > Champion
Juve > Specialist Juve > Specialist Champion
Ganger > Champion > Gang Hero
Ganger > Specialist Ganger > Specialist Champion
Champion > Gang Hero
Champion > Specialist Champion

Gang Hero > Leader (on Death of)

So if you go the specialist route you end up in a cul-de-sac unable to advance further but honing skills to a very thematic level (and potentially unreversable Level See: stimmer or death maiden).

It would then give you options on whether you want your models to build up from bottom to top or whether they branch off into a very specialist role.

Maybe just climbing the ladder is best for most Juves but perhaps a few decide to go all out and try to prove themselves to leapfrog to Specialist champ status?

 

[UncleFester]

I like @MusingWarboss path suggestions, because that's always been one of my pet peeves with NewMunda: originally, it was Juve -> Champion and Gangers were stuck with only gaining "Specialist". That, I always found very unexciting for a few reasons:
1) It takes FOREVER to advance a Juve to a Champion, and once you do, you have a Champion with a terrible stat line and a god-awful equipment set. Great. You'd be better off letting the Juve go and hiring a new Champion.
2) It makes no sense that you would have a stock of experienced fighters without a chance of improving themselves, but then you have a selection of young hot-heads who are just going to jump over those experienced fighters and become their commanding officer.

When I first heard about the Prospects, I thought it was a good idea and was happy GW were addressing these issues, but then I realized they were essentially just a glorified Juve, so you still have the problem of promoting to a Champion with a crap stat-line. And the promotion paths are still lame.

So yeah, I find them disappointing too. Maybe slightly better, but still disappointing.

We did a campaign where we made the promotion path linear: Juve -> Ganger -> Specialist -> Champion. However, gaining enough XP to promote is so slow a process, it didn't have a big effect. It felt better, though.

 

[Daganisoraan]

Fighters type shouldn't evolve except for Juve into Ganger (under NCE rules) since they use the same mold. The current rules of prospect is just an excuse to force people to buy yet more minis and have bloated gangs.

 

[Heart of Storm]

I mean, fluffwise the progressions should be Prospect -> Juve -> Ganger -> Specialist Ganger - > Champion/Specialist Champion.

But nobody is ever earning enough experience for that

 

[cronevald]

I think there's a loss for gameplay here as well. I could be wrong, but in my opinion the old experience incentives within scenarios would encourage people to play for objectives rather than just wiping the other team. So by shifting the focus away from experience gain they've managed to make both gang development and gameplay less interesting.

 

[Trance Human]

I love Necromunda and love homebrewing/house ruling but damn if the current incarnation of the game isn't full of reworkings needing to happen!

 

[TopsyKretts]

Did someone say rework? Ended up reworking everything. Prospects gone. Specialist champs gone. Good old Juve --> Ganger promotion. My rules still support all the new fighters like Death Maiden. This may be controversial to some, but rules wise a Death Maiden is little more than the Poison Blood special rule. So the option presented to Escher when recruiting a champ is to have standard or death maiden (with poison blood). The drawback for choosing death maiden is of course no access to Special & Heavy Weapons. Wyld Runners are reduced to juves, but if modelled with bow it has to be ganger (because of basic weapon restriction). And all the cats belong to leader & champs.