Resource icon

Necromunda Streamlined Necromunda Vehicle Rules Vehicle Rules v1.6

No permission to download

TakUnderhand

Gang Hero
Dec 28, 2014
1,837
4,304
163
Devon, UK
Can you clarify the rule about 'must move 1" between turns' please?
Does that mean both players turns?
Who makes the move? Player or opponent?
What if you are in CC?
Thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: trollmeat

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
Can you clarify the rule about 'must move 1" between turns' please?
Does that mean both players turns?
Who makes the move? Player or opponent?
What if you are in CC?
Thank you!
It is meant to be "must move 1" in between making turns", not in between players' turns. I can start an ammendment list and get another update going sometime in the future.
 

TakUnderhand

Gang Hero
Dec 28, 2014
1,837
4,304
163
Devon, UK
Could I have a few more rule clarifications please?
Heavy weapons on vehicles:
1) Can you purchase weapons not on the House Weapon List?
1a) If so, do you have to use your rare trades to get them?
2) Can a passenger fire a weapon that they wouldn't usually be allowed to, because it's mounted to a vehicle?
2a) For example, can a Juve fire a heavy weapon?
2b) How about special weapons, can they be fired without the specialist skill?

Armour:
3) If I purchase heavy armour, that gives complete cover for passengers - fine. But what about the driver? Do I still have to purchase "enclosed cockpit" to ensure the driver is covered too?

Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: trollmeat

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
Could I have a few more rule clarifications please?...
Not a problem :)

In regards to Heavy Weapons, it is not in the rules (yet) but I had no intention of using House Weapons Lists or requiring Rare Trade rolls to equip vehicles - these rules are already enough of a departure from the set rulings that a significant amount of GM'ing is necessary to get vehicles into play in a remotely balanced way. I'd suggest that the weapons are thought of as being bulkier versions than the hand held ones, but are common enough that when you go down to the local garage/ chop shop/ Chevy dealership, they have the selection available there. Especially since there are vehicle specific weapons.

In regards to who can use vehicle mounted weapons, the most recent incarnation had this:

Each weapon mounted to a vehicle must have a passenger stationed to it in order for it to be fired, and any class of ganger may fire a vehicle mounted weapon regardless of if they are heavy or special weapons.
As for Heavy Armour, it should pretty much act as Enclosed Cockpit for all passengers. On the first page the blurb on capacity identifies Drivers as being passengers:

Capacity is the amount of characters or loot tokens a vehicle can carry, the first passenger always being the driver
Hope that helps :cool:
 

Tomcaet

Gang Champion
Nov 9, 2014
281
312
63
Łapy, Poland
Wheel-Mounted Trigger allows the driver to fire one of the (vehicle's?) BS weapons (ranged weapons?) and also move.
Main Weapon may only be fired if the vehicle did not move that turn.
Which takes precedence? I'd assume Trigger rules, but the trigger's explicitly mentioned earlier as overriding another ruling (driver firing) so I'm not sure anymore.

For movement regarding passengers, do I get it right:
Driver and passengers can start the game inside the vehicle. If a passenger disembarks at the beginning of the move phase, both it and the vehicle lose 1" of movement. If more than one passenger disembarks, all lose 1", vehicle also loses 1" only once.

Can a passenger disembark after the vehicle moved this turn, providing the vehicle has at least 1" left for a stop? Feels quite fast if it's possible. Are there scenarios where a model moves twice during one turn, once on foot and once embarked? Is it precisely what Hotshot Ignition allows?

Is Hotshot Ignition referring to the driver embarking, or any passenger, even if the driver remains in place?

Can Loot-carrying passengers embark? Does the vehicle need a Loot Carrier then?

I'm confused on rotating and directions in ramming. What's the angle of the impact? Which way is "away" from it? Does it all differ in different "types" of ramming (head on, from side...)? Maybe pictures?

Does armour, when improving Toughness, improve both the Shooting and Close Combat Toughness scores?

Do you have suggestions on which scenarios are unfit for vehicles (so they're used in the Trading Post then - that's nice) or you leave it completely for the players to decide? Thoughts on vehicles in limited-numbers scenarios?

Does the Heat Seeker RPG fire like a Missile Launcher mounted on the vehicle or is it somehow homing on the target vehicle?

Does Reinforced Structure include the Medium Armour or does it merely allow for an upgrade with some extra costs? I'm assuming the armour is included, as there is no mention of the price of armour in a case like that.

Do Combat Arms make the vehicle fight in close combat like a ganger, that is, rolling an Attack Die per arm, and dealing hits according to the combat score, or are they limited to one hit per arm? Is the arm user's WS used, so the driver's or the appropriate passenger's? Should the arms usually get the "Higher Ground" combat bonus? Are weapon arcs irrelevant if the driver operates a Light Walker arms?

Are weapon arcs resolved for each weapon individually, considering their point of mounting and facing? Are they assumed to be typically mounted fixed in one direction, having a 90° firing arc?

Do Walkers also need to move 1" between turns? If not completely free turning, maybe 1" spent for each 45° turned in place?

Do you do Rescues with captured vehicles? :p Do you suggest any options for captured vehicles? Ransom? Scrapping? How does Dedicated Crew work into this?


Whew... Thank you for reading. Can't think of more questions at the moment.
And a big Thank You for those rules. It feels like our campaign will really get a vehicle or two thanks to those.

Edit: Noticed and fixed a ridiculous typo. Also mentioned Dedicated Crew.
 
Last edited:

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
Gimme a few days to give a look through this, @Tomcaet. I had a (most likely mental) list of things for the next update, and I'm sure after hashing out clarifications/ remedying parts that require additions I will have to get a new version of these out quite soon. Thanks for taking such an in depth look over things though! I am always interested in any questions or recommendations on these, as the process of un-breaking home brew rules seems never ending :p
 

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
Ok, @Tomcaet, let me try and crack into these.

Wheel Mounted Trigger allows a Driver to fire a weapon the same turn they drove. However, this is more for secondary weapons. Imagine the SM Trike, where the driver has the Bolter on their handlebars and the dude in the sidecar has a... Heavy Bolter for example. The vehicle is small, has two crew, and lets say has a Wheel Mounted Trigger. So the driver is now able to fire the Bolter the same turn that he drove, however if the vehicle moved the Heavy Bolter can not be fired. It's big and heavy, and whipping around going braappp makes it too hard to aim and shoot it. To relieve the confusion, I will change the wording in the Shooting At/ From Vehicles section to say "a vehicle's Main Weapon may only be fired if the vehicle did not move that turn, regardless of if the vehicle is equipped with a Wheel-Mounted Trigger".

For embarking/ disembarking, you are correct in your 1" numbers. Here's some examples: If a vehicle has a driver and four passengers and can move 12", you could move 6", drop four passengers off, and then move 5" further. Those passengers could then move 3" after disembarking (unless they are running or charging or some shit). Alternatively, that same vehicle could move 2", drop off a passenger, move another 2", drop off a second passenger, move another 2", drop off a third passenger, and move another 2", where the final passenger would get off. If they all hop off at separate times, the total movable distance of the vehicle would be 8" instead of 12". Think of it as slowing down enough for a safe tuck and roll onto their feet and ready to go. NOW, what this does present is the issue that it should be declared that vehicles should be moved during the Chargers frame of the movement phase, so that passengers can still charge into combat after disembarking.

Hotshot Ignition is for the Driver loading. It is assumed that if the Driver gets out they turn off the vehicle's engine (ya know, pollution laws and such...), where as for every other passenger loading while the Driver is already behind the wheel it is assumed the vehicle is in Go mode. I should make the addition that if the Driver is loading, they may not spend that turn also firing a Main Weapon (but a passenger may), as they are occupied by starting the machine up and getting it going.

I would go ahead and say that in order for loot carrying characters to load onto a vehicle, the vehicle would need a Loot Carrier. This is because while on the vehicle a passenger would be too preoccupied holding on for dear life that they could not also hold onto that burlap sack of loot. Thus, having a crate to throw it in while their on board would be needed. I will make an addition for this.

For ramming and angles, the best I can describe is if you T-bone an opponent against the... North American passenger side/ British or Australian drivers side: after you would turn your vehicle 45 degrees to the right, which would force the direction of the rotation of the opponent vehicle that got rammed to be 90 degrees to the left. This means you can strategically ram vehicles off towards terrain or into areas where they would have to spend much of their turn getting turned around. Think of every ram occurring with a 45 degree turn rather than just head on. This allows for follow-up movement to be simpler. So the ramming vehicle chooses which direction they face after the ram (at 45 degrees from their initial angle of impact), and the impact would cause the rammed vehicle to be knocked in the other direction, at 90 degrees of what they were. PIT maneuver sort of thing.

Armour improves both Toughness values. I will add that in to clarify.

Suggested Scenarios? Pretty much any of them but it really requires a good sense of balancing each side to a certain degree and using appropriate terrain. Maybe not Lord of the Spire?? :p

The Heat Seeker RPG is meant to be a strong weapon that can't be abused against easy to kill and very squishy pedestrian characters, more to make vehicles more capable of cracking into each other. Characters on foot don't put off enough heat trace to be applicable targets, but the weapon does not use scatter dice or the likes. More of a cheeky bend of the rules to make it work...

Reinforced Structure does include Medium Armour and Enclosed Cockpit, but I am going to change the price to 75 Creds, as the price does not make sense at 50 Creds...

Combat Arms definitely need some clarification. High ground is a yes. For a WS value, I would prefer to give them a set WS Value of 2. If they are big lurking mechanical arms, being as cunning as a Juve with a masher/ stabber makes sense from both a fluff and balance perspective. I want to add that Combat Arms need be allocated upon purchase to being on the front, side, rear, or other side of a Medium or Large vehicle, and that Drivers can only operate Combat Arms on either the front or either side if they have Wheel Mounted Triggers. This goes beyond being able to use a vehicle's weapon if no movement occurred, as they would need appropriate joysticks or whatnot inside the cabin/ cockpit to control the arms. On Walkers, I would suggest that the arc does not really count and they should be treated rules-wise as really, really big gangers.

Weapon arcs are for each individual weapon based on mounting.

Walkers still need to move 1" between turns.

For captured vehicles, I would say they get sold off for scrap at 50% of their worth, and any and all Dedicated Crew get sold to Guilders as slaves. I will figure out a price per crew member for that. All of this would need to be an addition.



That would be my direction for applying fixes and offering explanations, if there is anything you think should be added that I haven't stated would be added or perhaps some suggestions on how things should be worded, by all means the feedback would be greatly appreciated from any and all readers of this. An update is certainly pending, maybe in a week or two I can get something put up here.
 
Last edited:

Tomcaet

Gang Champion
Nov 9, 2014
281
312
63
Łapy, Poland
Okay then, here go the follow-ups! :LOL:

I wasn't sure how secondaries are easier to fire on the move than Main, especially as things like Autosluggers and Meltaguns can be either Secondary or Main, depending on vehicle size. But that does make sense, bigger, slower vehicles allow for firing bigger guns, and you don't fire the expensive ammo if you can't line a decent shot. If it was up to me, I'd add a line about it to the Trigger rules, along the lines of: Note that you still can't fire the Main Weapon after moving the vehicle. I feel a specific rule should be separated from the general ones wherever possible.

Vehicle movement, then a passenger charge (or a simple run) - that's a lot of ground covered. It's offset by a vehicle's cost, however. Will have to see how it works out.

Thank you for the ramming description, now I think I can follow. If the rammer has some choice about the directions then it sounds pretty fun. To be sure, in the described ramming, whose left the rammed vehicle takes? Does it go in the general direction the rammer came from, as it was hit in the trunk? In the pdf it seems something's different, though - the 45 and 90 degrees are applied to the target and the rammer, respectively. Is something mixed up?

Of the scenarios I'm thinking of restricting vehicles in restricted-numbers scenarios. You would get instantly detected if Raiding with an engine running, a Shoot-out could get silly, and defending a Caravan against a biker gang would be ridiculous. :LOL: Well, maybe if a vehicle taken took up a ganger's slot (so instead of e.g. 6 allowed gangers, you take 5 and the truck) it would turn out fine. And vehicles still can't hide, so an alarm is quickly raised on the Raid. Some Treacherous Conditions might render vehicles unusable. Oh, maybe some equipment options designed for these conditions? Searchlights? :)

I think I'm getting the RPG motivation. How is it used, though? Like a Secondary Weapon, just with a targeting restriction? Or simply fired on command by the driver? Is Ballistic Skill tested? Is it one-shot? A bit similarly actually, Lasguns and Smoke Grenade Launchers on Heavy Vehicles work exactly like the ones taken as Secondary Weapons for Medium and Small, right? I was confused by placing the RPG with unlimited equipment, and not Weapons, at first.

Reinforced Structure is for Small Walkers wanting to go Dreadnought. It makes for a fast, armoured piece. Didn't try the costs yet, though, can't say anything about balance.
 

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
Ok, so I had some technical issues on here but was able to get things sorted out and get the original post I had been having issues with corrected to its full length. @Tomcaet, while I know much of it will be redundant based on your follow-up post would you be willing to go through the rest of the amendment ideas I had proposed there and maybe come up with anything additional for your follow up? I hope to go through these in the next week or two and get a new version posted up with all the appropriate fixes.
 

Tomcaet

Gang Champion
Nov 9, 2014
281
312
63
Łapy, Poland
I went over the points again and the follow-ups still stand. For things to add, once I noticed you used the term PIT maneuver, I got all I needed to see the ramming.

Combat arms and combat against vehicles isn't yet clear. If you fight against passengers, or fight against a Combat arm or two, things work out - we roll the dice and determine the Combat score for both parties. Hits follow accordingly. What if you attack the vehicle itself? Rules for attacking buildings seem inappropriate as you might get less hits than against something fighting back.

I wonder how would a vehicle "rescue" go. :) There's also another aspect - as vehicle usually aren't bound by some loyalty, would the captors be able to use it themselves? The crew would naturally be "unusable" for this purpose, but the machine wouldn't object. Generally. There are many things that could go wrong, maybe the machine's particularly moody or the paranoid owners added traps. Maybe the rescue is possible while the captors figure out how the thing works. Such vehicle snatching seems cool, but I'm not sure whether it brings too much complexity, campaign-wise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blood Donor

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
I will have a go at pulling some solutions out of me arse over the next bit for all these points. There might be some dodgy quick-fluff creations to skirt around some issues. Namely I think that all vehicles will be equipped with some sort of start-up trickery that does not allow captured vehicles to be used by other gangs - they can either be ransomed back or sold to a chop shop to be stripped down. More on all this later. Thanks again for taking the time to look through all this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hreikin

Tomcaet

Gang Champion
Nov 9, 2014
281
312
63
Łapy, Poland
We had a go with the rules, improvising a bit on the Close Combat. We had a Light Walker with armor upped to Medium, two Combat Arms, Wheel Trigger, a Bolter and a Meltagun, the closest I could get to a Furioso Dreadnought. :D
Driven by a gang leader, but treated in combat as WS2, A2. Got one charger - and here's the first question - the charger decided to attack the passenger, but would the walker participate? We played as yes, that it would be a two on one.
Then the combat - we played the attacker vs the walker first. The dreadnought was obliterated in a single round, no need to roll, all 4 damage at once. We played so that the combat ended, the driver and passenger disembarked out of melee. Would that be correct?

First try turned out very badly for the vehicle. If Combat Arms are set at a low WS, they're useless. If too high though, would be nigh unstoppable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blood Donor

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
Alright given that these are being actively playtested I will schedule time in this week to work on them. I got involved with painting zombies, and it kinda distracted me from my previous promise to get these hashed out. Will get an updated version going here very soon.


***EDIT: And yes, @Tomcaet, you were correct in that the Gang Leader and Ganger would jump ship.
 
Last edited:

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
Blood Donor updated Streamlined Necromunda Vehicle Rules with a new update entry:

Streamlined Necromunda Vehicle Rules v1.6

Based on the play testing work @Tomcaet has done, I was able to make the following amendments:
  • Clarified vehicles must move 1” in between any turns the vehicle makes
  • Clarified rules for failed jump attempts
  • Vehicle weapons are not limited by House Weapon Lists
  • Clarified Wheel-Mounted Trigger rules for primary weapons
  • Changes to Combat Arms
  • Fixed Reinforced Structure cost
  • Fixed rules for Captured results
  • Clarified rules for Heat Seeker RPG's
  • Changed number of...
Read the rest of this update entry...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: hreikin

Mymearan

Ganger
May 29, 2014
162
61
33
We're about to start a a campaign where the players can choose between three environments each game: A "normal" hive, the wastelands outside the city, or the ruined hive city below ground. We're thinking about allowing vehicles in the wastelands, so I found your rules and jimjimjimmyjim's. What would you say are the main differences between the two sets of rules?
 

Blood Donor

Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Aug 23, 2011
3,393
4,358
178
33
Golden, British Columbia, Canada
@Mymearan, I wrote these ones with a primary focus on giving lots of creative liberties in the vehicle creation via mix and match for drive system, size, and armour. Then the rules try and revolve around simplistic play. Neither are particularly long, I think these ones max out at 10 pages including a page dedicated to quick reference charts. Have a read through each and worst case you can always just sample what you like into your own set.

I had some great playtesting feedback on these from a few members to work out some kinks so hopefully they will play quite balanced. They certainly aren't as in depth, quirky, and entertaining as the full on Gorkamorka vehicle rules, but I think you and your group will be able to have a hell of a lot of fun with these, especially since I wrote them with the exact situation you are playing in mind - sometimes scenarios will only feature one vehicle in dense terrain, others will be full vehicular combat in the open wastes with lots of vehicles, but either way these rules should play balanced, quick, and easy. More time moving miniatures and rolling dice, less time flipping through rulebooks sort of thing.

Glad you are thinking of giving these a shot! :)(y)
 
  • Like
Reactions: TakUnderhand