Tactics Card Deck Size

[SirWalterManny]

Can see a couple mentions of house rules from some time back, but just wanted to check: Is there any 'official' guidance on tactics card deck size or customisation?

Having bought each of the gang card packs, and assuming more will come in the future, is there a minimum or maximum size deck you should use if the scenario has random tactics card selection?

Sensible house rule would seem to be a minimum deck size (20?), abiding by any house-only and zone mortalis/sector mechanicus restrictions, with no duplicates. Avoids issue of carrying round lots of cards, and of drawing a card which is of no-use (applies to computer terminals/doors/ductways when none on board).

Cheers

 

[sumpthing]

Ive been thinking about this quite a bit recently in preparation for my groups next campaign, we have one full set between us, so i was thinking of shuffling all the non house specific cards and then we draw as many to make up thirty (including our house specific cards) as we need then draw randomly from the deck of thirty at the start of each turn to have 5 cards in the hand.

I think 5 in the hand is good, with the option to discard each end phase if you choose. I think this will keep random and discourage meta-style deck building.

just my 2 cents worth...

 

[TopsyKretts]

I use one of those fancy magic deck boxes:

I printed all the cards in magic size, which was very beneficial:

• easy transportation & storage
• can add those hard-to-get limited event cards (at the moment only Hive Tremors)
  
• can be sleeved
• can re-print cards that are updated (FAQ/Errata)
  
• can correct cards that makes no sense (house rule)
  
• can add missing Zone Mortalis / Sector Mechanicus labels
• can add information about where the card originated

Has additional space for tokens & dice (I put the priority token in there).

Then we just share the big deck, shuffling and drawing as per scenario or house rules. We don't select cards because I'm the only one who have all the cards and it would take a long time if my friends had to read them all before choosing. I don't remember all of them either, so would take long time for me to select too

There's quite a large amount of cards now, 119 currently, with expected 139 when Delaque is released!

 

[MusingWarboss]

Page 55 of Gang War 4 (Dominion Campaign) states that a Tactics Card deck may never number fewer than 8 cards.

Officially you’re supposed to include one of every card you have (no duplicates).

That’s probably going to get unweildy after a few more deck packs though!!

If you keep your cards grouped by type so;

• General
• Sector Mechanicus only
• Zone Mortalis only
• House whatever x6

Then you can take the pack of general ones and shuffle in the ones for the terrain you’re using and the house you’re using before you start (assuming you’re using a house gang).

Other than that it’s down to you. If you+friends dislike certain cards, like “Click”, you can elect to leave that out of your decks. There’s no official rule like that but you can if you want.

Technically each player is supposed to have a deck each. If they don’t, you could always split your general deck + scenery between them and then add in the house cards to the split decks for each player. They all get shuffled and off you go.

 

[SirWalterManny]

I use one of those fancy magic deck boxes:

View attachment 64917

I printed all the cards in magic size, which was very beneficial:

• Nice - was thinking of looking at a box to hold and draw from. have sleeved as is using Blood Bowl sleeves at minute, hadn't thought of re-printing.

There's quite a large amount of cards now, 119 currently, with expected 139 when Delaque is released!

• Yep - even c.100 is pretty unmanageable!

Page 55 of Gang War 4 (Dominion Campaign) states that a Tactics Card deck may never number fewer than 8 cards.

• Cheers - had seen that but then forgot where and thought was odd as even if you only had one of the update packs, you'd have more than 8 to form a deck, but everything else suggested including all cards.

Technically each player is supposed to have a deck each. If they don’t, you could always split your general deck + scenery between them and then add in the house cards to the split decks for each player. They all get shuffled and off you go.

• Yeah, was thinking that was fairer when playing someone who had less cards. Not a fan of any 'pay to play' mechanic where it can be avoided. the only issue using the same deck brings in is where there are some obviously more powerful cards, if you have it you know your opponent doesn't! Not necessarily a bad thing, but makes it slightly different to if you each have your own decks.

 

[SirWalterManny]

Ive been thinking about this quite a bit recently in preparation for my groups next campaign, we have one full set between us, so i was thinking of shuffling all the non house specific cards and then we draw as many to make up thirty (including our house specific cards) as we need then draw randomly from the deck of thirty at the start of each turn to have 5 cards in the hand.

I think 5 in the hand is good, with the option to discard each end phase if you choose. I think this will keep random and discourage meta-style deck building.

just my 2 cents worth...

Like that idea a lot - brings in a little bit of hand-management to the game. Not sure if you could add in something to allow viewing/'stealing' cards from another's hand, or allowing someone to re-draw a card from (any players) discard pile as an option, just to play around with the idea of a player drawing and holding/discarding to keep another player from using a tactic? Only issue might be around balance with 5 cards; some seem much better than others, and some link-combo quite nicely, sometimes too nicely if you have several all played together.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yeah, was thinking that was fairer when playing someone who had less cards. Not a fan of any 'pay to play' mechanic where it can be avoided. the only issue using the same deck brings in is where there are some obviously more powerful cards, if you have it you know your opponent doesn't! Not necessarily a bad thing, but makes it slightly different to if you each have your own decks.

Yes you will be certain your opponent doesn't have the exact same cards as you, but I think there is enough of powerful game-changing cards to go around. On the plus side, it prevents players from using the same cards during a game (a bit boring).

 

[cronevald]

As others have said, the rules are simply that a deck should include one of every card you have plus house specific cards.

I've adopted the house rules One Big Deck and Draw Five, Pick Two. Both have worked out quite well so far.

With One Big Deck all the cards including house cards are shuffled together into a deck that both players draw from. If a player draws a duplicate or a card they can't use they simply discard and draw again. The current deck is pretty thick but if it's well shuffled that doesn't seem to be an issue.

Draw Five, Pick Two was suggested by someone on this forum a while back and is used anytime a player would normally pick their cards. I think the actual formula is draw x(the number of cards you would choose) +3, pick x. Some might not like it but it works for us as the players don't end up relying on the same couple of cards and usually end up with a number of good cards to choose from. It also means players can become more versatile with cards they might not normally consider.

 

[sumpthing]

As others have said, the rules are simply that a deck should include one of every card you have plus house specific cards.

I've adopted the house rules One Big Deck and Draw Five, Pick Two. Both have worked out quite well so far.

With One Big Deck all the cards including house cards are shuffled together into a deck that both players draw from. If a player draws a duplicate or a card they can't use they simply discard and draw again. The current deck is pretty thick but if it's well shuffled that doesn't seem to be an issue.

Draw Five, Pick Two was suggested by someone on this forum a while back and is used anytime a player would normally pick their cards. I think the actual formula is draw x(the number of cards you would choose) +3, pick x. Some might not like it but it works for us as the players don't end up relying on the same couple of cards and usually end up with a number of good cards to choose from. It also means players can become more versatile with cards they might not normally consider.

Is that working out alright? i like the unknown factor of it but i havent tried it yet.

 

[cronevald]

Is that working out alright? i like the unknown factor of it but i havent tried it yet.

I would say it's worked very well, but it depends on what you want from tactics cards. For us they are an added useful boon, and not something to build a gang or a playstyle around. We also have no interest in adding a deckbuilding element to our game. I don't think anyone's ever felt shorted by a really bad draw of cards. Problem cards like Click or Dangerous Footing are still annoying but they're definitely not hated or game-breaking.

 

[SirWalterManny]

I would say it's worked very well, but it depends on what you want from tactics cards. For us they are an added useful boon, and not something to build a gang or a playstyle around. We also have no interest in adding a deckbuilding element to our game. I don't think anyone's ever felt shorted by a really bad draw of cards. Problem cards like Click or Dangerous Footing are still annoying but they're definitely not hated or game-breaking.

When each player discards, assume they are kept hidden so nobody knows what might still be in play?

 

[cronevald]

When each player discards, assume they are kept hidden so nobody knows what might still be in play?

If you must, but we usually don't care. We're pretty laid back and in theory either player can cut, re-shuffle, or draw from the middle of the deck, but we usually just deal off the top as it keeps things moving.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yeah same here, we just discard in a laid back fashion, doesn't pay much attention to keeping count or track of cards.

 

[totgeboren]

It should be no problem if people elect to remove all the cards from a specific pack, essentially pretending like they did not buy that expansion pack at all.
Each expansion pack is balanced by having one or two really good cards, and one or two really bad ones, so if you remove a full set the remaining deck should still be balanced.

Only removing bad cards would really be cheating, considering just how powerful the good cards are and how bad some bad cards are.

 

[The Blotted One]

Ive been thinking about this quite a bit recently in preparation for my groups next campaign, we have one full set between us, so i was thinking of shuffling all the non house specific cards and then we draw as many to make up thirty (including our house specific cards) as we need then draw randomly from the deck of thirty at the start of each turn to have 5 cards in the hand.

I think 5 in the hand is good, with the option to discard each end phase if you choose. I think this will keep random and discourage meta-style deck building.

just my 2 cents worth...

OMG, FINALLY! Someone has actually written a clear and to my mind, workable solution. YES, I will do this. THANK YOU! x

 

[sumpthing]

We ended up settling at 3 cards in the hand with only one allowed to be played at a time ie only one at the start of the battle, only one at the start of each round, only one when a fighter activates... It's been really fun so far!

 

[The Blotted One]

We ended up settling at 3 cards in the hand with only one allowed to be played at a time ie only one at the start of the battle, only one at the start of each round, only one when a fighter activates... It's been really fun so far!

Ooooh, I like this. Thats quite crisp and clean and kinda feels like how if GW got their act together, in a sort of AoS rules writing manner, they might word it. Thanks!

 

[The Blotted One]

nd just to clarify, those three hands. How did you determine them in the first place?

I'm looking to run @sumpthing 's method which I've cleared up accordingly:

GANG CARDS

Step 1: PRE-BATTLE. Shuffle generic deck, remove broken cards (if not already done).

Step 2: Each player counts their Gang specific cards and draws as many generic cards necessary to make a 30 card master hand.

Step 3: For each scenario, draw X cards from this master hand (suggestion is 5).

Step 4: After each game, discard spent or unused generic and gang specific cards

Step 5: Once the master hand is depleted redraw as per Step 2.

Step 6: Once either the generic deck or Gang specific decks is exhausted, reshuffle discarded cards.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

My group uses a deck building system with the following rules:
- 20 cards (we might use 18 next campaign, to fit a d66 roll)
- Up to 5 tier 1 cards (the best ones)
- Any number of tier 2 cards (the middle ones), provided the rest is met (effectively this is 10 tier 2s)
- At least 5 tier 3 cards (the worst ones)
- At least 5 cards must be from your House (and obviously you can't have any from another House)
- Unstable Footing and History of Violence are banned.
- Instead of choosing cards, draw x+3 and discard 3.
- If you can't use a card, redraw even if the card doesn't say so.

Many players have printed off their cards.
I really like the system. It creates a nice mix of cards from the best to the worst, and stops the same combinations coming up constantly.
I'm not the arbitrator, but I believe there's a nice variety to the deck's people have chosen.
And only have 20 cards is nice and easy to carry around with you, much better than the circa 150 cards available to your typical house gang at the moment!

 

[The Blotted One]

My group uses a deck building system with the following rules:
- 20 cards (we might use 18 next campaign, to fit a d66 roll)
- Up to 5 tier 1 cards (the best ones)
- Any number of tier 2 cards (the middle ones), provided the rest is met (effectively this is 10 tier 2s)
- At least 5 tier 3 cards (the worst ones)
- At least 5 cards must be from your House (and obviously you can't have any from another House)
- Unstable Footing and History of Violence are banned.
- Instead of choosing cards, draw x+3 and discard 3.
- If you can't use a card, redraw even if the card doesn't say so.

Many players have printed off their cards.
I really like the system. It creates a nice mix of cards from the best to the worst, and stops the same combinations coming up constantly.
I'm not the arbitrator, but I believe there's a nice variety to the deck's people have chosen.
And only have 20 cards is nice and easy to carry around with you, much better than the circa 150 cards available to your typical house gang at the moment!

How are you determining card tier levels? Is this off the goonhammer list?