team planning - what to do?

[Ben_S]

I'm trying to work out how to assemble a bunch of models into teams.

I have two Black Orc teams plus one Goblin team (mainly because I didn't much like the goblins that come with the Black Orcs). Obviously, I can make a Black Orc team with plenty of goblins (I assume a league will require more than six). But I was hoping that, with a bit of conversion, I could also make most of a Goblin team and/or the goblin part of an Underworld team. But I'm not sure what I'd need...

To be clear, I'm quite happy to use a given goblin model in two or three different teams, though I would want to convert some Underworld-specific mutants (that's the main point of the team!)

If I were to use all the goblin models from these three teams, that would be 24 players.

So, I'm thinking I want at least 8 or 9 plain vanilla goblins. Then there are 6(?) special positions for the Goblin team - secret weapons (x3), pogo, 'ooligan, doom diver. I'm not sure whether I can convert all of those or not, but if I could that would be 15 models used. Add three (or maybe four) mutants is 18. (If I can't convert all the secret weapons, etc, then maybe a couple more mutants.)

Sticking to 18 would be good. That's the goblin models from the Goblin team plus one of the Black Orc teams. Then I could try selling the second Black Orc team. (I only ended up with it as a result of buying a bundle on eBay.)

Does this logic sound right? Would 8 or 9 'vanilla' goblins be enough, in both a Goblin and a Black Orc team (not at the same time)? Any suggestions for converting the Goblin positionals?

 

[ChapterAquila92]

If I were to use all the goblin models from these three teams, that would be 24 players.

So, I'm thinking I want at least 8 or 9 plain vanilla goblins. Then there are 6(?) special positions for the Goblin team - secret weapons (x3), pogo, 'ooligan, doom diver. I'm not sure whether I can convert all of those or not, but if I could that would be 15 models used. Add three (or maybe four) mutants is 18. (If I can't convert all the secret weapons, etc, then maybe a couple more mutants.)

Sticking to 18 would be good. That's the goblin models from the Goblin team plus one of the Black Orc teams. Then I could try selling the second Black Orc team. (I only ended up with it as a result of buying a bundle on eBay.)

Honestly, for a Goblin team, you'll probably want to have 11-14 linemen models available alone, mostly to account for journeymen inducements but also if you don't feel satisfied with the performance of the secret weapons.

In a Black Orc team, you'll want 12 Goblin Bruisers models max (9 to max out the roster after the positionals and big guy, 3 as journeymen if and when you have those other players missing the game).

If you're double-dipping, there's nothing wrong with teams sharing models to save on how many you need to complete as quasi-"franchise" teams. Likewise with the one troll, for that matter.

It's mostly going to be down to how you number your players, more than anything. In this instance, Both trolls in the Goblin team would take up either 1 & 2 or 15 & 16 on the roster sheet, and inversely the goblin linemen (bruisers included) would be numbered from the opposite end of the roster sheet up to the spots where you'd want your positionals.

If you're adverse to crossing the streams for them and want to assign models to dedicated teams, however, you're looking at 23-26 goblin linemen models alone across both teams (number pending how many secret weapons you want to include in the Goblin team), not including any mutants you may want to make for an Underworld Denizens team.

Another thing to consider is that, outside of a select few teams (i.e goblins, halflings, gnomes, etc), most require you to get a second team box anyway to fill out the roster as required, even if just for linemen alone.

 

[Ben_S]

In a Black Orc team, you'll want 12 Goblin Bruisers models max (9 to max out the roster after the positionals and big guy, 3 as journeymen if and when you have those other players missing the game).

That seemed excessive, then I realised you're counting the 3 journeymen as three extras. (9 regular gobbos + 3 journeymen.)

I know some people do like to have special journeymen models, sometimes in mis-matched kit, but that's not my plan. I'm planning on double- (or even triple-) dipping, as you put it, and using the same models for multiple purposes.

9 should be plenty for a Black Orc team. I suppose you could in theory need 11, if everyone else was dead/MNG forcing you to field a whole team of journeymen (or journeymen and rostered gobbos), but that seems pretty unlikely. Indeed, even 9 seems a lot to me, but I haven't played the new-ish edition at all yet, let alone a league in it...

Honestly, for a Goblin team, you'll probably want to have 11-14 linemen models available alone, mostly to account for journeymen inducements but also if you don't feel satisfied with the performance of the secret weapons.

That's a bit more than I was thinking. Are you again assuming separate (distinctive) journeymen in that calculation?

Journeymen alone can't take you above 11, so I certainly shouldn't need more than that unless I'm choosing to run a large roster with hardly any positionals. If I'm not using at least two of the secret weapons, is it really worth playing goblins?

 

[ChapterAquila92]

That seemed excessive, then I realised you're counting the 3 journeymen as three extras. (9 regular gobbos + 3 journeymen.)

I know some people do like to have special journeymen models, sometimes in mis-matched kit, but that's not my plan. I'm planning on double- (or even triple-) dipping, as you put it, and using the same models for multiple purposes.

9 should be plenty for a Black Orc team. I suppose you could in theory need 11, if everyone else was dead/MNG forcing you to field a whole team of journeymen (or journeymen and rostered gobbos), but that seems pretty unlikely. Indeed, even 9 seems a lot to me, but I haven't played the new-ish edition at all yet, let alone a league in it...

You'll likely not start a fresh Black Orc team with a full roster if playing in a league, what with a starting treasury of 1,000,000 gold and especially when you have to factor in your 50k apothecary (if you choose to start with one) and your 60k team re-rolls (which double in cost outside of re-drafts). However, so long as you can have at least 11 players at the start (ideally all 6 black orcs and at least 5 goblins - singular big guys like the 0-1 troll can usually wait until you've earned enough in your treasury later on) you'll be better set up for success than most.

That's a bit more than I was thinking. Are you again assuming separate (distinctive) journeymen in that calculation?

Journeymen alone can't take you above 11, so I certainly shouldn't need more than that unless I'm choosing to run a large roster with hardly any positionals. If I'm not using at least two of the secret weapons, is it really worth playing goblins?

That is correct.

Granted, when I say Journeymen, I'm mostly using generalized terminology from earlier editions, as they used to only be taken as inducements with no cap on how many you could take short of a full 16-player roster.

There are of course the regular Journeymen, which as you point out allow a crippled team to start the game with 11 players if they otherwise couldn't due to casualties from previous games, with the caveat that those additional players must be a 0-16 Lineman player option but can in turn be hired on during the post-game sequence. As of this edition however, there are also Mercenary Players: a type of 0-3 "Journeymen" inducement option that is not as restricted by team size as regular journeymen (so long as the total number of players on your team available for the game doesn't exceed 16). Also unlike regular Journeymen, Mercenary Players cost 30k more to take (80k more if you're electing to give them a single primary skill), and they cannot be hired during the post-game sequence.

Additionally, the key thing to remember with Secret Weapon players is that they're often liable to be ejected from the game after every drive they remain on the pitch. This means that you generally benefit more from taking them when drives are being prolonged as much as possible, which is not exactly a favourable prospect for a stunty team in general unless it's to cripple your opponent for later (a role in which fanatics and chainsaws excel at). Admittedly, Goblin teams and others with the Bribery and Corruption special rule have easier means to improve the odds of retaining Secret Weapon players than most, but even then there is still the risk of "blowing your load" with them if you're not careful with your line-ups each drive. Thus, having the additional linemen is as much to space out your use of Secret Weapons as much as to provide a stunty team with much-needed ablative padding when the Secret Weapon players are unavailable for any reason.

Having seen it in person, I can also attest that It's a bad day when you're forced to field all of your Secret Weapons in the same drive because you didn't have enough linemen in reserve.

 

[Ben_S]

You'll likely not start a fresh Black Orc team with a full roster if playing in a league,

No, no one starts with a full roster.

Though my assumption is that changes to the teams (fewer positionals) may mean that people buy more players. That doesn't really affect the Black Orc or Goblin teams though.

There are of course the regular Journeymen, which as you point out allow a crippled team to start the game with 11 players if they otherwise couldn't ... As of this edition however, there are also Mercenary Players: a type of 0-3 "Journeymen" inducement option

This isn't entirely new. It might have changed somehow. (As I said, I haven't played third season, so don't know.) But mercenary inducements existed before. Not that I saw them often. (Bribes might be the better option.)

Additionally, the key thing to remember with Secret Weapon players is that they're often liable to be ejected from the game after every drive they remain on the pitch. ... Thus, having the additional linemen is as much to space out your use of Secret Weapons as much as to provide a stunty team with much-needed ablative padding when the Secret Weapon players are unavailable for any reason.

This is a good point, which I perhaps hadn't wholly factored in. Though if I did have all the special goblins and the troll, then that only leaves room for 9 goblins on the roster anyway. You're right that I might not want all the special goblins, but I assume I'll have some.

I think it unlikely I'd have room for more than 11 or 12 regular goblins, even if I get to 16 players. (And if I really end up short of models, maybe I can sub in the mutant Underworld goblins as journeymen/mercenaries.)

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Though my assumption is that changes to the teams (fewer positionals) may mean that people buy more players. That doesn't really affect the Black Orc or Goblin teams though.

For all of GW's posturing about "not wanting to force people to buy more of the same team box", they certainly haven't discouraged needing to for that full 16, even if you don't end up hiring all of them. It's honestly more of a "the more things change, the more they remain the same" situation model-wise - virtually every team outside of the stunty teams and Norse require you to get a second box just for the linemen alone to do so.

This isn't entirely new. It might have changed somehow. (As I said, I haven't played third season, so don't know.) But mercenary inducements existed before. Not that I saw them often. (Bribes might be the better option.)

Unlike last edition, Mercs are capped at 0-3 instead of being "unlimited".

I think it unlikely I'd have room for more than 11 or 12 regular goblins, even if I get to 16 players. (And if I really end up short of models, maybe I can sub in the mutant Underworld goblins as journeymen/mercenaries.)

Just be mindful that if you choose to substitute those as mercs that they won't have access to the Mutations skills.

 

[Ben_S]

For all of GW's posturing about "not wanting to force people to buy more of the same team box", they certainly haven't discouraged needing to for that full 16, even if you don't end up hiring all of them. It's honestly more of a "the more things change, the more they remain the same" situation model-wise - virtually every team outside of the stunty teams and Norse require you to get a second box just for the linemen alone to do so.

Yes, I realise that it's gone from wanting a second box for the extra positionals to wanting it just for the linemen. It might have been better if they've come up with a way of making the teams three sprues rather than two. That would give everyone a full squad (though with more duplication).

 

[daveh]

i found i only needed a maximum of 5 goblins in my black orc team (club league winners) with 6 black orcs and a troll

black mountain athletic 4.jpg

• daveh
• Mar 17, 2025

black mountain athletic 3.jpg

• daveh
• Mar 17, 2025

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Yes, I realise that it's gone from wanting a second box for the extra positionals to wanting it just for the linemen. It might have been better if they've come up with a way of making the teams three sprues rather than two. That would give everyone a full squad (though with more duplication).

Not quite. Most extra positionals at the time were available on their own as Forge World resin blister packs. Some still are, such as in the cases of Dark Elf Assassins and Goblin positionals (as that's the only way you can get the official Blood Bowl models for them), but outside of Big Guys the rest aren't available anymore. Even still, the main value you'd get out of a second box was and always has been the linemen to eventually pad out the roster to a full 16. Of course, some teams have a better time of it than others - Lizardmen only get 4 linemen out of their box for instance compared to most other teams getting 6 (or a full stack of 12 in the case of Goblins).

 

[daveh]

in our league (just finished) everybody was scratching around for journeymen , except for the ogre player who had more noblars than you could shake a stick at

 

[ChapterAquila92]

in our league (just finished) everybody was scratching around for journeymen , except for the ogre player who had more noblars than you could shake a stick at

Granted, that's to be expected for a team whose linemen don't count towards the team value before advances in addition to being really cheap (not to mention being able to add 3-7 journeymen in addition to however many are needed to get up to the 11 minimum players via Riotous Rookies, with the added boon of temporarily allowing them to have more than 16 players available for the game). Most stunty teams can be expected to have (nearly) a full roster and still have enough money left over for re-rolls and an apothecary even with all of their big guys and positionals in tow.