N18 The fundamental flaw of all campaigns

[MusingWarboss]

Oh dear, some things need to be cleared up here.

NCE - absolutely no limit to how many weapons and how much gear can be carried on a single miniature. You can have a lascannon, heavy bolter, flamer, boltgun, plasma pistol, power sword with grenades etc all on one person.

Not quite true.

“The weapons you choose for your gang fighters must be represented on the models themselves.” N95.

Exceptions being knives and grenades and pistols in holsters.

So there is a physical limit to how many weapons you can fit on. Which for most people will be 3-4 if they even wanted to go that far: I.e, shotgun, stubgun, knife, club.

The model is assumed to be using whatever weapon it’s holding as its primary Weapon unless otherwise stated and all weapons it owns must be represented on the model. None of this N17+ personal armoury thing.

Closest you get is to deposit your stuff in the gangs stash, at which point it’s communal property and not tied to that fighters cost.

Also a fighter can carry only one heavy weapon max.

Plus, “a fighter with a basic, special or heavy weapon needs at least one hand free to carry it, so he can only ever have one hand free to carry a sword, pistol, etc.” (p28 N95 Rulebook).

So I’m afraid your example above is extremely illegal.

Well, NCE you can have gangers progress to champions without any limitation, there are no hoops to jump through, just xp, and as soon as they are they can start tooling up with heavy and special weapons.

Experience in N95 points range from 0-401+.
61-80 is entry level for heavies and leaders and is classed as Gang Champion.

It’s mostly irrelevant though compared to the new game which uses Champion differently, replacing the Heavy slot as a fighter type.
You’re conflating two systems here, the naming of fighter types and the N95 Experience levels, which borrow heavily from old 40k.

Also you’re wrong on the last part, there is a maximum limit of two Heavies in N95. Only heavies can have heavy weapons and only heavies and the leader can have special weapons. So max three specials per gang. Period.

 

[Jayward]

The problem is, as is already mentioned, there are several campaign systems and they all offer something different. Folks are also getting things horrendously wrong.

Weapons:
NCE - absolutely no limit to how many weapons and how much gear can be carried on a single miniature. You can have a lascannon, heavy bolter, flamer, boltgun, plasma pistol, power sword with grenades etc all on one person. Not only this, you can co-ordinate attacks in your turn because you get to move your whole gang in one go.
N17 - EVERY fighter has three weapon slots. Unwieldy weapons like heavy weapons etc, take up two slots. Leaders and champs get multiple "load-outs" which means you can have more weapons, but you are still limited to three weapon slots at the start of the game, so you have to select the weapon load out you want.
On top of that, gangers can't change their weapons full stop unless a rule specifically says they can. This means that once they have filled their three weapon slots, they are done.

Leader/Champion limit: an important aside to this is that in N17 you are limited to the number of champions you can have, no more champs/leader than any other fighters. Now, how does this impact NCE you ask? Well, NCE you can have gangers progress to champions without any limitation, there are no hoops to jump through, just xp, and as soon as they are they can start tooling up with heavy and special weapons.

Which then gets onto the concept of some gangs being limited to what they can buy and rare trade being more difficult too.
So the entire argument about doing nothing but winning money and tooling up your gang... it's just rubbish I'm afraid. If you roll a 7 or 8 on the seek rare item roll. You are going to be stuck for getting much high end stuff, most of it at that level is common anyway, and some of it will be available to you through your gang availability without the roll.

As already mentioned, the progression system is actually far more limiting than the NCE progression system. XP is harder to gain too. There's just so little basis to these arguments apart from preference.

Preference alone is absolutely fine. When it isn't fine is when you profess to have statistical information which transpires to be wildly inaccurate.

I earlier presented the territories and how much they can earn you, with half of them not actually giving financial boons. Of the others, over 1/4 were risk Vs reward so gave bigger rewards. Of the others, the average MAX boon payout was around 30creds. 30creds won't even buy you a boltgun. It just about gets you a juve. This is the dominion campaign.

Okay, fair, I'd be the first to admit that I've not played all the campaign types; Outlander and Ash Wastes remain a mystery to me. And my old-Necromunda experience predates NCE (I think? It's a fuzzy distant memory at best, as I mainly remember Gorkamorka).

But beyond that it honestly seems like your experiences have been very different to mine in this edition; I really do feel that credits alone are the main source of progression. To go through your points in order:

Weapons, you are correct. But there is a lot of scope for upgrading weapons and fighters without giving them extra weapons. Hotshots, scopes, undersuits, etc.

The champion limit was more restrictive back in Turf War; now you just have to buy a juve. There are no gang size limits, and juves are cheap. I cannot think of a single instance where someone was prevented from getting a champion because a) it's easy to generate enough money to buy a juve, and b) it's hard to gain enough XP to promote a ganger/prospect.

(As an aside, there was a discussion in my group about what to do if you got a 3-weapon ganger promoted to Champion and wanted to give them a heavy weapon. Turns out that if you fire that Ganger, hire a Champion, and then give them all their equipment they'll have better stats, a free skill, and possibly still cost less depending on the exact route they took.)

But the comment about the rare trade is the one that goes really against the grain for me. Until the final fortnight of my last campaign, the items I bought from the Trading Post were Choke Gas Grenades (for the Launcher, rarity 9), Incendiary Charges (Rarity 7), a Long Rifle (Rarity 7), and Manstopper Rounds (Rarity 8). My gang started with a Leader and three Champions, so if they all lasted through a battle I could get +5 on Rare trade rolls. That's a 92% chance to get everything on that list after game 1. I won that campaign, and whilst I haven't personally tried it yet I'd put good money on being able to seriously compete in a Dominion campaign without visiting the trading post at all with my Escher. I think the only thing I'd have truly missed was the telescopic sight on my Needle Rifle.

Your comments about the territories also run counter to my experience, as the Mine Workings were easily my most profitable, and the Stinger Mould Sprawl (Escher) saved me hundreds in Bionics and Doc trips.

And in my final defence, I never claimed that the numbers I gave were statistical, only anecdotal based on my last Dominion campaign. And whilst I can only refer to my feelings there, it really did feel like I won simply because I got the most credits in the first week and snowballed.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Hmmmm interesting thread!

I can’t talk for Newmunda but just thought I’d talk about balance and N95/NCE. At the UK Tribemeet we normally have 30+ peeps playing a campaign for two days, probably playing at least 8 games each. If you could do one of those fancy graph things like computer gamers do you’d probably see a massive peak of global NCE games whilst the event is on. I along with others “arbitrate” it and make event specific rules so I like to think I know what I’m rambling about

And after all of that preamble? It all seems fairly balanced and the rules work. Spyrers break it a bit but you need to know how to fight them and basically not be afraid to run away. We rarely if ever have to intervene/arbitrate and if we did it would just be a roll a dice or flip a coin kinda thing on a rules dispute only.

If you win yes you can get more credits, but to be honest the biggest leveller is the brutal serious injury chart, no one is safe if they go out of action and roll dead that’s it! We’ve never really had a problem with one gang being over powered at any point during the weekend.

The campaign system has credit, XP bonuses and scenario selection perks built in for playing a much more powerful gang that makes it worth your while doing it even if you lose.

In terms of campaign winners, we don’t really promote it and we focus more on silly things like most head injuries inflicted on your own gang etc etc. Not because the system itself is broken but we’ve learnt to do it this way because with 30+ players a tiny minority of the final gang rosters are a little let’s just say overly optimistic by the end of the weekend… no issue it’s not a tournament! Necromunda whatever the flavour has always been about the stories it creates.

I’ll just add I’ve played Fantasy Flights Star Wars Armada to a fairly high level, placed in UK tournaments and played players that qualified for the worlds via table top simulator, and none of GWs games are suitable for serious tournament play! The rules just aren’t tight or well written enough.

PS @MusingWarboss I think you forgot about the Specialist Skill!

Keep it friendly Love the Troll!

 

[MusingWarboss]

PS @MusingWarboss I think you forgot about the Specialist Skill

Probably because I’ve never played Van Saar, think they were the only ones that could do that.

But yeah, ok, y’got me.

Happy New Year Yaks!!

 

[mcfonz]

Oh dear, some things need to be cleared up here.


Not quite true.

“The weapons you choose for your gang fighters must be represented on the models themselves.” N95.

Exceptions being knives and grenades and pistols in holsters.

So there is a physical limit to how many weapons you can fit on. Which for most people will be 3-4 if they even wanted to go that far: I.e, shotgun, stubgun, knife, club.

The model is assumed to be using whatever weapon it’s holding as its primary Weapon unless otherwise stated and all weapons it owns must be represented on the model. None of this N17+ personal armoury thing.

Closest you get is to deposit your stuff in the gangs stash, at which point it’s communal property and not tied to that fighters cost.

Also a fighter can carry only one heavy weapon max.

Plus, “a fighter with a basic, special or heavy weapon needs at least one hand free to carry it, so he can only ever have one hand free to carry a sword, pistol, etc.” (p28 N95 Rulebook).

So I’m afraid your example above is extremely illegal.


Experience in N95 points range from 0-401+.
61-80 is entry level for heavies and leaders and is classed as Gang Champion.

It’s mostly irrelevant though compared to the new game which uses Champion differently, replacing the Heavy slot as a fighter type.
You’re conflating two systems here, the naming of fighter types and the N95 Experience levels, which borrow heavily from old 40k.

Also you’re wrong on the last part, there is a maximum limit of two Heavies in N95. Only heavies can have heavy weapons and only heavies and the leader can have special weapons. So max three specials per gang. Period.

I'm pretty sure the limit on heavies is only at creation isn't it? So when other fighters are promoted, they become heavies, you don't have to sack anyone.

Re the quote from the book, that's on how many weapons they can have in their hands at one time. Pistols can go in holsters, swords on belts, basic/special weapons on slings/backpacks... GW literally modelled metal models like that. My point still stands, for N95/NCE you can really go to town on gunning fighters up perfectly legally. And much more so than N17.

I started in 95 with the release of Necrominda. Heavies would have holsters, basic weapons on their backpacks, folks would add sword sheaths, 2nd holsters etc... plenty of space. And far more utilitarian. Give a champion an unwieldy weapon in N17 and you have one spare slot. You go basic weapon, pistol or you go combat weapon? No free knife just to get that +1 attack with the pistol.

Note, I am not saying that this is good or bad, this again is preference. However, it was a point used to attack N17 for being "unbalanced" by having more emphasis on weapons.

N17 still requires models to be armed wysiwyg - which either means making several versions of the same model or magnetising - which some people do. The 'armoury' is your version of stashing weapons and switching out between games... only in N17 weapons belong to that fighter so no other fighter can use them. Unless they are killed and it goes into the stash - once reassigned thats it.

 

[cronevald]

I'm pretty sure the limit on heavies is only at creation isn't it? So when other fighters are promoted, they become heavies, you don't have to sack anyone.

No, it's just two heavies per standard gang. Gangers who reach the Gang Champion level on the experience chart are still technically gangers. They are not promoted and gain no new abilities. They can use special weapons if they roll the Specialist skill, but only heavies can use heavy weapons. (I'm assuming a bit here as I'm more of an ORB player and have never played NCE. I would be surprised if those details were changed though.)

 

[mcfonz]

Okay, fair, I'd be the first to admit that I've not played all the campaign types; Outlander and Ash Wastes remain a mystery to me. And my old-Necromunda experience predates NCE (I think? It's a fuzzy distant memory at best, as I mainly remember Gorkamorka).

My main oldminda experience is N95. When they released the living rulebook for the then specialist games it was a bit of a bad day...

N95 is the one game I never stopped playing, warts and all. The living rulebook, which NCE is now with fan additions, removes sustained fire dice. I get why, though a chart was all that was needed to use a d6. The fact they then ceased to support it made that pointless.

But beyond that it honestly seems like your experiences have been very different to mine in this edition; I really do feel that credits alone are the main source of progression. To go through your points in order:

Weapons, you are correct. But there is a lot of scope for upgrading weapons and fighters without giving them extra weapons. Hotshots, scopes, undersuits, etc.

Sure, but as this started out as a critical argument of compatison, all of those upgrades were available in N95. So you can have more guns all with upgrades in N95.

The champion limit was more restrictive back in Turf War; now you just have to buy a juve. There are no gang size limits, and juves are cheap. I cannot think of a single instance where someone was prevented from getting a champion because a) it's easy to generate enough money to buy a juve, and b) it's hard to gain enough XP to promote a ganger/prospect.

No gang size limits bit most scenarios will not allow you to rock up with your entire gang. Plenty are also random selection, so if you are buying cheap juves to get champions, you are raising the risk of pulling a juve out of the deck rather than a champ.

Additionally, there is a high chance of a lasting injury resulting in going into recovery and missing the next game. That means in the next game you may be left with juves to make up the numbers.

A juve is basic 30creds I think. So looking at 120+minimum just to get that champ before wargear and weapons.

Not only this but if at any point a gang member dies and the 50/50 balance is undone, and you don't have the cash, you have to retire a champ to redress the balance.

(As an aside, there was a discussion in my group about what to do if you got a 3-weapon ganger promoted to Champion and wanted to give them a heavy weapon. Turns out that if you fire that Ganger, hire a Champion, and then give them all their equipment they'll have better stats, a free skill, and possibly still cost less depending on the exact route they took.)

Easy, when they are promoted to a champ, they get tools of the trade and get different weapon loadouts. The bonus is they get to keep the weapons etc they already have which may not always be available yo the champ.

But the comment about the rare trade is the one that goes really against the grain for me. Until the final fortnight of my last campaign, the items I bought from the Trading Post were Choke Gas Grenades (for the Launcher, rarity 9), Incendiary Charges (Rarity 7), a Long Rifle (Rarity 7), and Manstopper Rounds (Rarity 8). My gang started with a Leader and three Champions, so if they all lasted through a battle I could get +5 on Rare trade rolls. That's a 92% chance to get everything on that list after game 1. I won that campaign, and whilst I haven't personally tried it yet I'd put good money on being able to seriously compete in a Dominion campaign without visiting the trading post at all with my Escher. I think the only thing I'd have truly missed was the telescopic sight on my Needle Rifle.

Leaders and champs are the only ones that can perform post battle actions. So medical escorts and other specialist tasks. Not going into recovery is important too. Not to mention avoiding expensive medical escorts.

Your comments about the territories also run counter to my experience, as the Mine Workings were easily my most profitable, and the Stinger Mould Sprawl (Escher) saved me hundreds in Bionics and Doc trips.

I think some of this depends upon how many games you are playing in each half of the dominion campaign.

Interestingly @ClockworkOrange mentions the way they rewarded prizes in the tournament...

The Dominion campaign doesn't have a single winner either. There are multiple titles/rewards/recognitions. In fact, you should play a narrative endgame mission which isn't to decide a winner but to determine the cliffhanger ending.

And in my final defence, I never claimed that the numbers I gave were statistical, only anecdotal based on my last Dominion campaign. And whilst I can only refer to my feelings there, it really did feel like I won simply because I got the most credits in the first week and snowballed.

Out of interest, how many players were involved and how many games were played?

It sounds to me like almost all of the territories were in play.

 

[MusingWarboss]

I'm pretty sure the limit on heavies is only at creation isn't it? So when other fighters are promoted, they become heavies, you don't have to sack anyone.

No, sorry. It’s max 2 per gang. It’s written explicitly in the Experience section of the N95 Rulebook (above the advance table in the section about Juves) that when a Ganger reaches 61+ experience they do not become a heavy or a leader, just a particularly tough Ganger called a Gang Champion.

Only Juves “level up”.

GW literally modelled metal models like that.

Unfortunately hearsay now but I remember it was written, possibly in a White Dwarf answers page that a few models were sculpted ‘wrong’ as they were made before things were finalised. One was an Orlock with too many weapons, so there must be a limit somewhere.
Unfortunately I think is just implied rather than stated.

Sure, you can take a model with four pistols if you want but it doesn’t really offer much advantage unless your ammo rolls really suck.

They can use special weapons if the roll the Specialist skill, but only heavies can use heavy weapons. (I'm assuming a bit here as I'm more of an ORB player and have never played NCE. I would be surprised if those details were changed though.)

Only Van Saar. I checked. They’re the only Gang that that one skill applied to. Everyone else only gets Techno on their L and H. VS gets it on all fighter types (N95) or LHG in NCE.

 

[mcfonz]

No, it's just two heavies per standard gang. Gangers who reach the Gang Champion level on the experience chart are still technically gangers. They are not promoted and gain no new abilities. They can use special weapons if the roll the Specialist skill, but only heavies can use heavy weapons. (I'm assuming a bit here as I'm more of an ORB player and have never played NCE. I would be surprised if those details were changed though.)

I do have fond memories of a campaign where a delaque juve managed to roll the inventor skill, then managed to invent a lascannon!

As an aside @ClockworkOrange , the NCE injury table may look nastier as it certainly seems harder to escape without injury, but it does have far, far, fat fewer results where fighters miss the next game.

 

[cronevald]

Only Van Saar. I checked. They’re the only Gang that that one skill applied to. Everyone else only gets Techno on their L and H. VS gets it on all fighter types (N95) or LHG in NCE.

Well, and results 2 and 12 on the advance roll table. It was less common but any gang could get the skill with a bit of luck.

 

[mcfonz]

No, sorry. It’s max 2 per gang. It’s written explicitly in the Experience section of the N95 Rulebook (above the advance table in the section about Juves) that when a Ganger reaches 61+ experience they do not become a heavy or a leader, just a particularly tough Ganger called a Gang Champion.

Only Juves “level up”.

Cool, misremembering that bit then... it happens when you pass 40...

Unfortunately hearsay now but I remember it was written, possibly in a White Dwarf answers page that a few models were sculpted ‘wrong’ as they were made before things were finalised. One was an Orlock with too many weapons, so there must be a limit somewhere.
Unfortunately I think is just implied rather than stated.

Sure, you can take a model with four pistols if you want but it doesn’t really offer much advantage unless your ammo rolls really suck.

Not really the point here though. The point was the argument was that the emphasis was on guns and equipment. In reality, there is just a different emphasis.

In N95/NCE you can have a heavy who has a heavy weapon, back up shotgun, bolt pistol, sword and a knife. Assuming their BS and WS is decent, they can essentially be masters of all functions...

Reading through the experience section again I also spot another thing. In theory, an injury that damages a stat can be overcome by a stat increase through experience in N95/NCE. In N17 it can't. You can only advance each stat by 2... so if a fighter get's an eye injury, they'll need to get a bionic eye...

Only Van Saar. I checked. They’re the only Gang that that one skill applied to. Everyone else only gets Techno on their L and H. VS gets it on all fighter types (N95) or LHG in NCE.

On a 2 or 12 on the xp table anyone can roll on the techno skill table.

 

[ntw3001]

Other gangs could pick Techno on a 2 or 12, so there was the occasional Goliath specialist.

There's a bit of confusion that I think is over the promotion to 'gang champion'. That's got no in-game effect, it's just a title. I believe it went something like Green Juve - Juve - Top Juve - Ganger - Gang Champion - Gang Hero - Mighty Ganger. Maybe I missed some top-end ones. Wait I'm home for New Year, I can just check my ORB.

Okay I missed 'New Ganger', otherwise nailed it. None of the titles mean anything, they're just titles to reflect experience brackets. The four categories are juves, gangers, heavies and leaders, and permissions are tied to those categories. Experience level is referenced by exactly one thing in the base game, which is juves becoming gangers at 21xp.

Outlanders also has expanded weapon permissions for Braves who reach the Ratskin rank, but no explicit promotion to that title. But also, there are no special rules tied to the brave or ratskin types; no details of who can and can't work territory, nothing about recovery from pinning. It's just weapon permissions. Same case with Redemptionist novices and brethren, which are actually also listed as alternate statlines under the single 'brethren' entry. Seems like the Outlander 'juves' really are just cheap gangers. It's hard to tell the intent. IMO braves are intended as a clear juve-equivalent, and novices perhaps not? It's a single entry with alternate stats, surely that means they're the same type? Oh what does it matter I just liked digging up the old books

Edit: I don't really get the point about carrying a lot of weapons. Yes, you can. So what? Carry a thousand stub guns, it doesn't serve any purpose. In the example of a heavy with a heavy weapon, basic weapon, pistol and two melee weapons, what's the point? The knife can't be used, the bolt pistol barely has a use (an extra +1 to hit from 5-8"), and they'll have -1WS for carrying the heavy weapon. They're not a jack of all trades, they're a heavy with a backup gun and a melee weapon. If the point being made is that that useless case being technically legal makes n95 a game about toys over boys, it's not really doing much to illustrate that. Looking at the experience brackets and rate of experience gain tells us pretty clearly that advancement is going to come from stat gains. More so when we look over the weapon lists and see how much money it costs to get a little bit of stopping power that way.

 

[mcfonz]

Ok, just to clarify further re territory.

NCE: start with 5 territories, randomly rolled. This means that multiples of the same territory could be in the same campaign.

In most scenarios winners get to take territories from the loser.

On N17 gangs start with one territory and have to fight to take over new ones in the first part od the campaign. The 2nd part of the campaign os fighting rival gangs for territory already owned... just like NCE.

Comparing the scenario of multiple wins generating income. All of the NCE territories generate income.

NCE: after a win, gain turf from loser. Winner now has 6 turf Vs the losers 4. 2 games and the 6 becomes 7 with possibly two gangs on 4

As I said it's different. Both have their merits and flaws. N17 is clearly more RPG and needs more input. It's moee complex. It has a different feel. It doesn't make it wrong or worse, just different.

The main arguments put forward still have no weight. Not that it's important unless one feels one version must be publicly denounsed, which seems silly, play the one you like.

 

[cronevald]

In most scenarios winners get to take territories from the loser.

No, territories only changed hands following a 3 to 1 victory in the Gang Fight and Ambush scenarios. The Raid would allow you to disrupt access to or destroy an opponent's territory. New territories could be acquired by hiring Ratskin Scouts or buying certain items from the trading post. The isotropic fuel rod could transform a territory into a settlement. There were a variety of systems around territories, but I would not say it was safe to say that territories changed hands after most games.

 

[ntw3001]

N95 had the wash table. Not only did territories rarely change hands (possibly this was a houserule?), but income disparity was handled. I was never a fan of the swinginess of random territories, but in the end most everyone is making 30-80c per game. The maximum is 155, if you somehow get 560c income with three fighters. In N17, I've had gangs that make 200c per game on average and gangs that make 35. And there's stuff to *do* with money in that game; it matters a lot. We can agree to blame the arbitrator, and that seems to be the go-to (yes Necromunda subreddit, we've spoken about this) but that's... obviously unfair? What are they supposed to do. They're not DMing a D&D game, it's not co-op. Sure everyone wants to have a narrative, but how hard do players want to be railroaded to keep them from winning or losing too hard? There's no reason the mechanics can't do that job; there were systems serving that purpose in n95 and they were removed.

I'm just not convinced that the 'narrative game' line is anything other than an excuse for poor balance, with the rather nasty effect of placing the blame for campaign issues on a volunteer with an impossible job instead of the people who were literally paid to write the rules.

To go back to D&D, that is a game *actually* made for narrative play (as opposed to n17, where the dominion campaign calls for an arbitrator to administrate and track territories, leaving narrative and balancing duties supposedly optional. I don't have my GW1 book to hand, but IIRC in the failed, forgotten Turf War system the arbitrator was merely a suggested position, quickly assumed as a necessity by players due to the poor quality of the rules). And the rules can be clunky, they can be abused in cute ways, but these issues are niche enough that managing them isn't the primary duty of the DM (also, it's not PvP).

In N17, the power spiral is so aggressive that eventual winners can usually be picked out after game two and the arbitrator's accepted primary duty is giving out freebies and cutting tall poppies. People are allowed to like that, but maybe they'd prefer the balance to run itself and the arbitrator to be working on... you know, narrative. Making up pretexts to give the losers bags of gold and jewels ain't it.

Let's just not shift blame for imbalance onto the arbitrators unless we're also paying them for their work. It's not fair. There are people paid to do that, and it was already done when they arrived, and they discarded it to replace with nothing. I think criticism is fine.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

NCE/N95 Territories only change hands if you take out 3 times as many gangers as you take in (I think) 2 scenarios, lower gang rating? Don’t want to lose one? Try to avoid playing those scenarios at selection plus play in a way where you don’t incur the 3 to 1 rule. If you are outlaw(ed) you only get one territory bit generate income in a different way.

The whole game is very dependant on lucky dice rolls for your initial territories, serious injuries, XP, skill advances and credits generated. Maybe I wasn’t explicit enough before but we think some players occasionally cheat with this (who’s got time to watch every time someone rolls dice in the post battle sequence!) hence us giving out different prizes, but it’s not a failing in the system itself.

Unscrupulous players could also try to play “poor” opponents more than once during the weekend to gain the benefits of winning, but again that’s not a failing in the system. Even if they do the campaign system will start rewarding the difference in gang ratings fairly quickly.

For what it is it works very well. I haven’t played Newmunda to any great extent, but I can’t help but feel a combination of both systems with alternate activations and the NCE campaign system is probably the best of both worlds.

 

[cronevald]

The whole game is very dependant on lucky dice rolls for your initial territories, serious injuries, XP, skill advances and credits generated. Maybe I wasn’t explicit enough before but we think some players occasionally cheat with this (who’s got time to watch every time someone rolls dice in the post battle sequence!) hence us giving out different prizes, but it’s not a failing in the system itself.

Yes, this was the only real issue I ever encountered with the old campaign system. It was very much an honor system that could be spoiled by a bad player. They were pretty easy to spot though and simply weren't invited back.

For what it is it works very well. I haven’t played Newmunda to any great extent, but I can’t help but feel a combination of both systems with alternate activations and the NCE campaign system is probably the best of both worlds.

This is exactly what I was trying for in this thread. https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/another-old-school-campaign-for-the-new-game.12189/ It worked well during a few test games, but I've too busy to play for several months so proper stress testing is on hold. I will say that it really felt like Necromunda again in ways that the new version just never has for me.

 

[Jayward]

The Dominion campaign doesn't have a single winner either. There are multiple titles/rewards/recognitions. In fact, you should play a narrative endgame mission which isn't to decide a winner but to determine the cliffhanger ending.


Out of interest, how many players were involved and how many games were played?

It sounds to me like almost all of the territories were in play.

8 players, 24 territories. Everyone had to make and receive one challenge per game week, with the option of side battles that didn't grant territory. So a minimum of 12 games. After the Occupation phase only 22 territories had been claimed (due to some draws) so the extra 2 were removed.

When I say I won, I mean that I took the Dominator, Slaughterer, Creditor and Powerbroker triumphs, I had the highest Gang Rating, and I went undefeated. No-one got Warmonger because of a tie in battles played.

I don't feel like the rest of your post addresses my core point; reminding me of the rules doesn't change my assertion that I used those rules to snowball to victory in a manner consistent with the original posts. I'm not attempting a critical comparison with N95 or NCE, I'm trying to defend myself from your previous post where you said my argument was rubbish, and that I was professing statistical information that was wildly inaccurate.

 

[Jayward]

This is exactly what I was trying for in this thread. https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/another-old-school-campaign-for-the-new-game.12189/ It worked well during a few test games, but I've too busy to play for several months so proper stress testing is on hold. I will say that it really felt like Necromunda again in ways that the new version just never has for me.

This sounds super interesting; I'll have to give it a look!

 

[cronevald]

This sounds super interesting; I'll have to give it a look!

Just remember that it's a pretty raw and untested work in progress. There are probably several simpler solutions in few areas that I haven't thought of. I want to get back to it, but well, insert typical grumbling about scheduling difficulties here.