There are a lot of threads here on the forums that focus on the negatives of N17, but there are those of us who enjoy the game. So I would like this to be a thread where the game can be discussed in a positive and constructive manner. Finding ways to support and insure the game survives and thrives in the future.
Necromunda The Spire: An N17/N18 Praising Thread
- Thread starter Jfredona
- Start date
The_Worker
Gang Champion
I really like it! To be fair I've only played two games and I was umpiring both, but I really like it.
I love the new models. I love the boards. I love the idea of regular supplements and FAQs and new models for everything.
It was great seeing my Hellbitches and Automatics gangs back in action.
I really like the Fighter Cards idea, even if I probably won't use them very much.
I really like the new dice.
I really like it.
I love the new models. I love the boards. I love the idea of regular supplements and FAQs and new models for everything.
It was great seeing my Hellbitches and Automatics gangs back in action.
I really like the Fighter Cards idea, even if I probably won't use them very much.
I really like the new dice.
I really like it.
Yes, I am hoping that it follows the model of the other games they produce with regular releases, and maybe a large book containing it all at the end of every year.
I think in a lot of ways it is an improvement on the original, it is faster paced, rules are streamlined
The_Worker
Gang Champion
Combat is definitely faster than it was. I like the way the BS and WS is done now too.
I’ve said before that I think it’s a good fun game. When you get stuck in.
You want positives, ok here they are.
Alternative activation mechanism is far better than the previous system which could leave you stuck with a load of pinned or down fighters forever if you were in the wrong positions. Doubly if your enemy used overwatch.
This new system gives you flexibility to react to situations as they happen and means you’re never stuck in your ‘turn’ unable to do much.
The simplicity of the two actions is great too! There needs to be a more comprehensive list of what actions can be performed really but that’s an aside.
The production value of the components of the game are as high as you’d expect. I’ll leave the contents of the sprue to one side for the moment but the sculpting is great and the new aesthetic has a feel of the old while also being fresh.
I quite like more non-traditional weapons like the rivet gun. In fact being a gang based game I’d prefer seeing more improvised kit like that to military hardware like plasma weapons. It’d really separate these gangs away from 40k units it they didn’t have access to that stuff readily.
The Zone Mortalis game is great. It overcomes a couple of hurdles traditional games could suffer from. 1. more LoS blocking walls means it’s easier to scuttle about. 2. It’s quicker to throw down some tiles and play if you’re short of time.
In fact you could even do multi-level in there by making several “floors” and stairway points if you wanted. No mechanics for that but you can invent them.
Some controversial ones:
I don’t mind the no weapon swapping rule. In fact in plays better for our group as we like converting stuff and magnetising is ok but a faff. We don’t like swapping out models much either as after a while the model becomes an avatar for the character, so changing to a random one is just odd.
Also we’ve found for most Gangers once they’ve got a primary weapon they tend to stick to them, so no swap needed anyway.
So this new system is perfect for us. I realise others may hate it.
For once it seems like the designer was genuinely sympathetic for both WYSIWYG players and us non-swappers. It also works as a Turf War can be limited in run, so choices aren’t stuck forever unless you want them to be.
Fighter Cards are a nice touch (minor grumble - we could do with being able to buy more generic ones).
The rolling ammo dice with the D6 to hit roll makes more sense that previously when a 6 always triggered an ammo roll. Particularly annoying if you needed regually to hit sixes because of cover. So I like that.
You want positives, ok here they are.
Alternative activation mechanism is far better than the previous system which could leave you stuck with a load of pinned or down fighters forever if you were in the wrong positions. Doubly if your enemy used overwatch.
This new system gives you flexibility to react to situations as they happen and means you’re never stuck in your ‘turn’ unable to do much.
The simplicity of the two actions is great too! There needs to be a more comprehensive list of what actions can be performed really but that’s an aside.
The production value of the components of the game are as high as you’d expect. I’ll leave the contents of the sprue to one side for the moment but the sculpting is great and the new aesthetic has a feel of the old while also being fresh.
I quite like more non-traditional weapons like the rivet gun. In fact being a gang based game I’d prefer seeing more improvised kit like that to military hardware like plasma weapons. It’d really separate these gangs away from 40k units it they didn’t have access to that stuff readily.
The Zone Mortalis game is great. It overcomes a couple of hurdles traditional games could suffer from. 1. more LoS blocking walls means it’s easier to scuttle about. 2. It’s quicker to throw down some tiles and play if you’re short of time.
In fact you could even do multi-level in there by making several “floors” and stairway points if you wanted. No mechanics for that but you can invent them.
Some controversial ones:
I don’t mind the no weapon swapping rule. In fact in plays better for our group as we like converting stuff and magnetising is ok but a faff. We don’t like swapping out models much either as after a while the model becomes an avatar for the character, so changing to a random one is just odd.
Also we’ve found for most Gangers once they’ve got a primary weapon they tend to stick to them, so no swap needed anyway.
So this new system is perfect for us. I realise others may hate it.
For once it seems like the designer was genuinely sympathetic for both WYSIWYG players and us non-swappers. It also works as a Turf War can be limited in run, so choices aren’t stuck forever unless you want them to be.
Fighter Cards are a nice touch (minor grumble - we could do with being able to buy more generic ones).
The rolling ammo dice with the D6 to hit roll makes more sense that previously when a 6 always triggered an ammo roll. Particularly annoying if you needed regually to hit sixes because of cover. So I like that.
Yes, having played Shadow War with some friends who never played the original Necromunda, I realized how clunky and cumbersome the old game really is, especially compared to modern games. The new dice, ws/bs mechanics, and the 8th editing 40k wounding chart really make it flow much easier
I agree, the alternating activation is a great improvement, I also love that they eliminated overwatch as it made the game very stagnate
The_Worker
Gang Champion
Yeah! Alternating activation is great; keeps both players engaged too.
I definitely need to play a few more games because some of the rules got missed; like rolling the ammo dice all the time and also making Nerve tests when friendly models got Seriously Injured.
Bottling works more sensibly too, so a gang can drip away one by one or flood out in a mass panic depending on the dice. I like it more than an all or nothing thing the way it was.
I definitely need to play a few more games because some of the rules got missed; like rolling the ammo dice all the time and also making Nerve tests when friendly models got Seriously Injured.
Bottling works more sensibly too, so a gang can drip away one by one or flood out in a mass panic depending on the dice. I like it more than an all or nothing thing the way it was.
Yes, I had a problem with missing rules during the game, mostly because I am used to the original game and you have to forget how that game was played and really think of this as a different game all together to truely appreciate how well the system really works
With N17 out, I don't think there's any way I personally could go play the suddenly-old-fashioned-feeling NCE again. The major changes N17 brings are very fresh and mostly welcome, and it would be too much a mental hurdle to go back to the old ways.
The_Worker
Gang Champion
The_Worker
Gang Champion
Well, it is really. It's a relic of the 1980s-1990s skirmish design concepts. It's not unplayable, or bad, it's just different, and clunky as a result. There's a lot of streamlining gone into the new version and games produced since Necromunda was over 20 years ago.
I rant because I love. If N17 had been a clunky and bad system, I wouldn't be here. As it stands, because the game's core is solid with good mechanics I care.
Positives. Ok.
Dicing off for priority with swap-on-draw: This is good, it lends some extra drama to situations where you really need to get priority.
Alternate activation: This is excellent, as is the 2 action points to spend thing. It means you're never more than a few seconds away from being able to do something useful and have a wider variety of action combinations. I've played some ORB/NCE games in the past where my opponent has taken 20 minutes to painstakingly crawl through his movement phase with exacting precision - and then declared everyone hidden. See my next point!
Abolishing hiding & making overwatch a skill: Brilliant choice. Hiding still sort-of exists in the Take Cover action, but it suitably gimps your character and becomes something to do out of necessity rather than a matter of course. As @MusingWarboss said above, Overwatch and (imo) hiding made for some very, very dull games of ORB & NCE - moreso when you stopped being able to charge hidden fighters. We were so close to fixing this in the latest NCE but bottled at the last moment.
Different basic stat lines for different gangs gives more instant flavour than freshy rolled ORB/NCE gangs which were all basically the same save weapon loadout.
Grenades that work like grenades! Firing/throwing them at an area rather than aiming at a person. Good stuff.
I like the tiles too - I still prefer playing on a full 3D table, but the tiles are very convenient for a change or a quick game with much reduced setup time. I don't have table space at the moment so the tiles have been a godsend. It remains to be seen whether they'll keep getting used once I have my talbe set up semi-permanently in the garage.
The models are lovely. I would have preferred if they were the same scale as the old ones, but the change isn't too jarring amongst the Escher. It's blindingly obvious with Goliaths but I never had any old ones.
I'm a sucker for purple & yellow so I like my Escher dice.
And the biggie: The rules are actually pretty good if you and your mates can agree a sensible course of action with the ones which are badly written, unclear or simply do not exist. I imagine most groups can work things out reasonably and if not, the Arbitrator can decide. If you don't really have an Arbitrator I find challenging those that disagree with you to a naked, oiled up knife fight usually settles matters. You can have that mental image for free.
Dicing off for priority with swap-on-draw: This is good, it lends some extra drama to situations where you really need to get priority.
Alternate activation: This is excellent, as is the 2 action points to spend thing. It means you're never more than a few seconds away from being able to do something useful and have a wider variety of action combinations. I've played some ORB/NCE games in the past where my opponent has taken 20 minutes to painstakingly crawl through his movement phase with exacting precision - and then declared everyone hidden. See my next point!
Abolishing hiding & making overwatch a skill: Brilliant choice. Hiding still sort-of exists in the Take Cover action, but it suitably gimps your character and becomes something to do out of necessity rather than a matter of course. As @MusingWarboss said above, Overwatch and (imo) hiding made for some very, very dull games of ORB & NCE - moreso when you stopped being able to charge hidden fighters. We were so close to fixing this in the latest NCE but bottled at the last moment.
Different basic stat lines for different gangs gives more instant flavour than freshy rolled ORB/NCE gangs which were all basically the same save weapon loadout.
Grenades that work like grenades! Firing/throwing them at an area rather than aiming at a person. Good stuff.
I like the tiles too - I still prefer playing on a full 3D table, but the tiles are very convenient for a change or a quick game with much reduced setup time. I don't have table space at the moment so the tiles have been a godsend. It remains to be seen whether they'll keep getting used once I have my talbe set up semi-permanently in the garage.
The models are lovely. I would have preferred if they were the same scale as the old ones, but the change isn't too jarring amongst the Escher. It's blindingly obvious with Goliaths but I never had any old ones.
I'm a sucker for purple & yellow so I like my Escher dice.
And the biggie: The rules are actually pretty good if you and your mates can agree a sensible course of action with the ones which are badly written, unclear or simply do not exist. I imagine most groups can work things out reasonably and if not, the Arbitrator can decide. If you don't really have an Arbitrator I find challenging those that disagree with you to a naked, oiled up knife fight usually settles matters. You can have that mental image for free.
+1 Alternative activation is really solid.
+1 The gangs really have their own personalities when they're built. This is awesome.
+1 The action system. Sure some of the individual actions could get some polish but the core mechanics are extremely solid.
Weapon variety: (with a couple of notable exceptions) weapons are different and have their own unique place. Most 'core' weapons are balanced and there's an argument for taking a variety.
Rare trade mechanic: (assuming you play that you can only get a maximum of 1 rare item / Leader/Champ who Searches) one of the things I always hated was the complete pot luck of the old rare item mechanic. The mechanic for the new system is 1000% better and is an extremely solid basis going ahead.
+1 The gangs really have their own personalities when they're built. This is awesome.
+1 The action system. Sure some of the individual actions could get some polish but the core mechanics are extremely solid.
Weapon variety: (with a couple of notable exceptions) weapons are different and have their own unique place. Most 'core' weapons are balanced and there's an argument for taking a variety.
Rare trade mechanic: (assuming you play that you can only get a maximum of 1 rare item / Leader/Champ who Searches) one of the things I always hated was the complete pot luck of the old rare item mechanic. The mechanic for the new system is 1000% better and is an extremely solid basis going ahead.
I really enjoy having a new and hopefully Supported Edition of a game I once played as a teenager and had a blast back all those years.
The ruleset is good as others mentioned, from introducing activation, actions up to different stats and new models.
The ruleset is good as others mentioned, from introducing activation, actions up to different stats and new models.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying anything bad about the original, it is one of my favorite games. I bought it when the day it was realeased, I worked at a game store at the time.
The_Worker
Gang Champion
Oh, no, absolutely not! I love the old Necromunda, some of my best memories of wargaming come from Necromunda games. Just making an observation about mechanics and styles and stuff like that.
NCE is still excellent - 20 years of revision and balancing has ironed out the vast majority of problems with it. But I almost never got to actually play it. I haven't played NCE since YakDay, and that was the first time in about 6 months. N17 has reinvigorated some old friends who I hadn't played with in years. With a choice of NCE but no games of it or N17 and actually getting to play, I choose getting to play! That can only be good, and if GW somehow balls up or stop supporting N17 before it's finished, I'll casually drop NCE into the mix and see if it sticks
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