Necromunda The Sump: An N17/N18++ venting thread (Beware:grumpy grognards)

Scavvierising

Gang Hero
Yak Comp 3rd Place
Honored Tribesman
Aug 3, 2016
672
1,418
153
London
I can see grav boards being a thing for brat gangs.
Although I do think of brat gangs going about and carousing through hive city itself, not the underhive. A place where the folk have that inbred fear of the nobs upstairs.
In the underhive people wouldn't put up with that shit.

To much tech in the underhive these days. Even with the hive being a giant factory complex. I've always thought of necromunda as being more as a cheap low tech sweat shop that turns out shoddy crap on mass. With the likes of vann sar making high quality well made goods but not really any more advanced than the rest of the imperium.
After all things like Spyrer hunting rigs are shipped in of world.

I think they've made the houses and there centralised power bases a little to central. I don't mind coming up out of the underhive of the 90s and having gangs be involved in the commerce wars of hive city so to speak. But that really only works when gangs and the territory they control feels much more independent from central house power. That the gangs are really in it for themselves.
All this restrictive equipment and new warrior types while adding more options and some interesting stuff gameplay wise I'm sure.(the way balance is in this ed'. Just more options nobody would ever bother fielding.) Yet somehow it makes the lore/narrative etc feel much more restrictive. As it identifies me as just another militia unit under the thumb of house masters.
 
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DamianK

Juve
Nov 15, 2020
16
18
3
This is going in a really weird direction. I kind of liked the idea of jetpacks with orlock prospects, but those hoverboards are a bit over the top. Can't even begin to imagine how those flying bases are going to work with the rules (pinning, cover, zone mortalis, etc.). After seeing orlock stuff, I was really looking forward for new van Saar. Right now, I'm really puzzled. Guess we have to wait until more fluff and rules for these guys are previewed.
 

Daeron

Juve
Mar 10, 2014
25
47
23
39
Sofia, Bulgaria
Not sure exactly when it happened, but Neomunda jumped the shark for me as a setting with these new releases. Those Van Saar hoverboarders look a bit too darkeldary to me.
#notmyescher #notmyvansaar
I like the Newcromunda, I really do, and I'm thankful they decided to relaunch my most beloved GW game. Even with the cheap move of issuing Gang War 1-4 and then immediately outdating them, I enjoyed the relaunch with GotU. Book of Peril was a welcome addition too, less so Judgement and Ruin. I think Corpse Grinder Cults were the herald of the direction GW wants to take the game, being both visually and thematically distinct from everything we saw upto then.

But with the introduction of House of ... series there is obvious power creep, and unnecessary GW-fication of new units (for example "Wyld Runners" tm (r) (c)), combined with over the top poses, skills and abilities.

That's why I've been thinking of "drawing the line", so to speak. FAQ-ed (and common sensed) N18 rulebook and GotU, as a base, Book of Peril/Ruin/Judgement as flavour, miscellaneous free pdfs and WD rules as the cherry on top. This gives me more than plenty of tools and things to play with.
 

Coenus Scaldingus

Ganger
Yak Comp 1st Place
Apr 29, 2018
245
1,009
143
Finland
Not sure exactly when it happened, but Neomunda jumped the shark for me as a setting with these new releases. Those Van Saar hoverboarders look a bit too darkeldary to me.
#notmyescher #notmyvansaar
The Escher zombie ladies could at least be justified by maybe being propaganda, and the models have some redeeming features/scavengeable parts.
The Orlock jump packs felt a bit weird, but looked suitably unstable and could make sense as traversing up and down levels (I don't imagine them staying airborne for long).
These... no. Constantly zooming around on hoverboards is out of place in firefights between gangs, the technology is far too advanced (and openly too, unlike xenosy weapons), and the models looks incredibly boring too, the hoverboards clearly taking up so much sprue space that there is nothing left for variant poses, or even weapon options by the looks of things.

Yeah. Not a fan.
 
Jan 2, 2018
240
502
93
UK
Not sure exactly when it happened, but Neomunda jumped the shark for me as a setting with these new releases.
Needing to get past a shark is the best explanation for jump packs and hoverboards I've seen so far.

Not only are they dumb, they're also hideous. They look like something out of a Michael Bay Transformers movie. I know GWs thing is taking liberties with other peoples work but at least plagiarise something good.
 

ntw3001

Gang Hero
Feb 17, 2011
1,118
1,845
118
34
Essex, UK
That's why I've been thinking of "drawing the line", so to speak. FAQ-ed (and common sensed) N18 rulebook and GotU, as a base, Book of Peril/Ruin/Judgement as flavour, miscellaneous free pdfs and WD rules as the cherry on top. This gives me more than plenty of tools and things to play with.
Nice if you can do it. But if you don't have control over what your opponents collect, you'll have to deal with whatever you're given. It's other people's hobby too, and the people excusing poor releases with 'just force your group to play your own house rules instead' are not defending their position honestly. Not getting at you particularly, just anticipating the most common argument used to defend undesired content.
 

MusingWarboss

Gang Hero
Oct 31, 2013
1,792
4,161
183
Van Saar Grav Sleds? Really? Models look ok but more something the (a)Eldar(i) should be rocking up on, it just kills everything about the lore of Necromunda for me, I could just about explain the jump packs in my head.

I know I’m an old Gronard but still meh!
Yeah, the paint scheme doesn’t help much either! Just stick a Wych on top and you’d think they were a Drukhari release.

I have the feeling we’re not in the underhive anymore and are in somewhere that’s more like open air.

It’s tech that looks too posh for gangs - much like a lot of the way the new edition has mutated since 2017.
 

Galtarr

Gang Hero
Mar 1, 2017
828
1,383
118
I like the Newcromunda, I really do, and I'm thankful they decided to relaunch my most beloved GW game. Even with the cheap move of issuing Gang War 1-4 and then immediately outdating them, I enjoyed the relaunch with GotU. Book of Peril was a welcome addition too, less so Judgement and Ruin. I think Corpse Grinder Cults were the herald of the direction GW wants to take the game, being both visually and thematically distinct from everything we saw upto then.

But with the introduction of House of ... series there is obvious power creep, and unnecessary GW-fication of new units (for example "Wyld Runners" tm (r) (c)), combined with over the top poses, skills and abilities.

That's why I've been thinking of "drawing the line", so to speak. FAQ-ed (and common sensed) N18 rulebook and GotU, as a base, Book of Peril/Ruin/Judgement as flavour, miscellaneous free pdfs and WD rules as the cherry on top. This gives me more than plenty of tools and things to play with.
I agree wholeheartedly. Despite having bought 2 house books I may never play with now. I think I would suggest my gaming group stick with N18 & Book of era as a working version. Tbf it still has loads of content in ruin and peril we have yet to explore.

Alternatively it's a widely homebrew ruleset based loosely on GW models.

Nice if you can do it. But if you don't have control over what your opponents collect, you'll have to deal with whatever you're given. It's other people's hobby too, and the people excusing poor releases with 'just force your group to play your own house rules instead' are not defending their position honestly. Not getting at you particularly, just anticipating the most common argument used to defend undesired content.
I think I could do it as people were talking about dropping Necromunda altogether when House of Chains dropped. As they were largely against the concept of codex style . A why spend money let's keep it as it is rather than lose members is an easier win than people not playing imo.

I'll be honest I think I might struggle to get more than a couple of people on board with a fully homebrew ruleset.

To give an idea we are about 10 in current campaign only 2 of us bought new books but perhaps 4-5 might continue with house books. There's a couple we might lose anyway due to other games etc..

I can't and wouldn't force anyone to do anything. It is a group decision but I think, put on the table continue playing N18/GoTU might have traction and be an easy win. Though I could be wrong, maybe the majority want all in. Equally there may simply not be any appetite for Necromunda, post house of books, which will all be out by the time Covid let's us play again.
 
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Mr. M

Ganger
Honored Tribesman
Aug 1, 2019
51
180
68
San Jose, CA
@Mr. M , I really liked your idea about exploding prospects
To me, this would be more in keeping with the fluff about Van Saar being sickly and irradiated, and a bit disturbing because of their heretical use of technology. Slow and weak but dangerous if they die... it would still check the cannon-fodder box for lower ranked gang members, and avoid what is becoming the obligatory "fast light melee" cookie-cutter, low-energy add-on in each of the House Of books.
 

Spenetrator

Gang Champion
Honored Tribesman
Apr 2, 2018
413
1,063
163
York, UK
Ah. Smell the sweet scent of the sump? Or is that hoverboard exhaust fumes?

My main gripe about the bloody boards is the lack of other stuff on the sprue. I don't want to have to field 4 Prospects in only 2 poses all armed the same... With only the heads to tell them apart (and even they appear to be the same head, with open or closed mouths!) Even the champs appear to only have one option for a pistol arm...
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Dec 29, 2017
4,218
4,127
173
Norway
Who is all this content for? Casual gamers just need a handful of fighters and roll some dice. They wouldn't care much about having an insane amount of content. Hardcore gamers only want the best options, they will never use any of the numerous sub-optimal choices (unless they want to win against opponents who are not able to identify the few superior options). Shooting out new content left and right, GW is in no hurry to publish content in an ordered way where the majority of players can expect to have it. So we're left with a few niche players in an already niche game to have a rare fighter and use its rules. Who has played all 70 scenarios? If you haven't, why would you want more in the next 3 books?
 

Punktaku

Un-Dis-Honored
Honored Tribesman
Apr 4, 2017
6,751
11,116
228
Connecticut, USA
Kinda wonder what they have planned for Cawdor snd Delaque... I could see the Delaque being able to Shadow Walk. Maybe using Warp Spider technology?

Cawdor are kind of odd... maybe they’ll get trash wings that let them fly? Or maybe they’ll be able to self immolate like a Phoenix and use wings or flame.
 
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Spenetrator

Gang Champion
Honored Tribesman
Apr 2, 2018
413
1,063
163
York, UK
Who is all this content for?
I've waded into a few Facebook conversations recently waving my sump-crew banner, and been virtually dogpiled by players who just want more stuff, regardless of form, function, or fit.

The prevailing zeitgeist seems to be that this is a narrative game so it doesn't matter if the rules are shit and the fluff tramples over what has gone before.

Pointing out that most narrative games of which there are a few at the moment: Zona alfa, Last days and The McCullough Frostgrave/Oathmark/rangers triumvirate , are at their core simple, fluff lite and (most importantly) functional rule-sets over which the players narrative can be laid seems to draw derision.

And as @cronevald mentions, the central narrative hook of Necromunda is fundamentally fighter progression over campaign play. And yet these parts of the rules are most in need of revision.

When discussing this online (I really should know, at 38 years old, that you can't change people's minds online...) I raised the criticism that the game shouldn't require an arbitrator. I was met with the response that it would be like playing DnD without a DM. Even suggesting that arbitrator's should be doing fun stuff rather than deciding which sections of which book are ok was scoffed at...