Necromunda The Sump: An N17/N18++ venting thread (Beware:grumpy grognards)

Heart of Storm

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The description says its not a full rulebook and rather its enough to get started with whats in the box, but we'll see.

A more affordable entry point into the game isn't a bad thing, not a box set I'll be getting though, already have the gangs and its not going to be worth the price for the extra scenery like Dark Uprising was
 
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MusingWarboss

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Well it was rather expected that a new starter box would appear and this looks like a hybrid of the previous two.

Unusual choice to showcase the Escher again - would’ve thought they’d use two of the others that hadn’t been selected before.

Now, I wonder on its price. The original was £75. Dark Uprising was £175. This I’m guessing will be £95-£100.
It can’t be more than that otherwise it’s too expensive as a starter given what’s in it.

The Rulebook looks to be like the one in the original, so I imagine it’ll follow similar lines but be up to date. Now whether it includes micro-corrections and updates remains to be seen. Also if it includes a campaign or not, rules for 3D play (that terrain is ZM style) or a Trading post?

Overall it looks like an ok box. It’s pretty much what the first should’ve had, though the board looks a lot smaller and limited in how you can set up.

Now onto the big SUMP SPECIAL!!

Those are Tactics cards there!!! Now are they:
  1. A reissue of the 2017 cards but with 4 Delaque (old or new) replacing the 4 Goliath cards?
  2. A reissue of the First Escher and First Delaque separate card decks?
  3. The recently released Escher deck plus the upcoming Delaque deck?
  4. Completely brand new card decks comprising several generic cards (duplicated??) and 4 new Escher and 4 new Delaque not available anywhere else?
  5. A bunch of new generic cards with no house specifics.
  6. A reissue of the 2017 generic cards but no house specific ones (as they want to sell you card packs and House books).
 
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Unslain

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With less scenery and fewer models, I'm really hoping that it's more like their usual box-set prices. They did mention that it's for the "Necromunda-curious" rather than aimed at existing players, I just really wish they'd had something to say about what's happening with the inevitable next iteration of the rulebook at the same time, whether the trading post is going to be an online live document at al. But apparently liking the underhive means we like being kept in the dark, as far as they're concerned.

Despite our not being able to play during this slow seep of house codices, the lack of any apparent plan beyond the Delaque book has driven my gaming group back toward 40k. My best hopes at present are that the Red Redemption will entice enough to stay interested and the Delaque stuff isn't skyboard-grade buffoonery to make them regret it.
 
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TopsyKretts

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In case anyone missed this, there's another new box set. Note the reference to an updated rulebook...

Haha wtf is this?
  • Loads of repackaged plastics (zone mortalis, scatter terrain, tokens, markers, escher gang, delaque gang).
  • Old 2017 gang specific cards.
They can't put in new escher cards here because Delaque don't have them yet and the new cards have dependencies of new models not included in the box. So anyone who would enjoy the tactics tables in the new books now has to choose between table (N20 tactics) or drawing physical cards (N17 tactics).

Tokens is nice and quite rare to get, so that will most likely be appreciated.

The rulebook is going to be mindblowing. Surely we won't see a merge of House of Blades & House of Shadows here? Then it will be demo version of the gangs, only covering whatever is in the box. Which means loads of copy-pasting, perhaps similar to how N19 rulebook includes some of the rules for Enforcers and CGC. However Escher content has grown twice in size since N18, but Enforcers and CGC were pretty much the same version in N19 rulebook, book of judgement and book of ruin. Other than that, the new rules could potentially include new scenarios tailored for the extremely small board size in the box. And of course the mandatory copy-paste error for all reprinted content.
Now onto the big SUMP SPECIAL!!

Those are Tactics cards there!!! Now are they:
  1. A reissue of the First Escher and First Delaque separate card decks?
This. One revealed card is the 'Gas Trap" one. However, I don't see escher logo or anything indicating it's gang specific?
 
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Galtarr

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I expect nothing new in this box and that's fine. It's a nice entry point box. Old models and old copy paste rules and probably old cards.

Hmm wonder if this should be in the spire somehow doesn't feel sumpworthy enough.

No need to buy it that's a plus. Mind you I don't have any Delaque yet...
 
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TopsyKretts

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The rules will be new, whether that's intentional changes or not. The book also must include scenarios suitable for the small board size (which already exists, but I expect new ones instead).

Updated Rulebook


A 104-page introductory rulebook is perfect for newcomers to the dark and violent underhive of Necromunda. It’s not just got the rules, though – you’ll learn all about the hive city itself and the Houses that inhabit it.
Adding more books should clear up any confusion and silence the questions from the new players...
 

Ben_S

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The description says its not a full rulebook and rather its enough to get started with whats in the box, but we'll see.

I didn't listen to the Twitch, so don't know whether more was said. The text description refers to it as introductory, but it's not obvious whether that means it's only slimmed down Necromunda-lite (like 2d rules only) or whether it means that it's suitable for beginners (not requiring other books or experience).

I thought I'd take a look at how they describe the current hardback rulebook here, for comparison

The description starts with "The Necromunda Rulebook is your complete guide to gang warfare in the 41st Millennium... for everything from quick skirmishes to sprawling campaigns." (emphasis added). This makes it sound rather like everything in one book, even though you actually need Gangs of the Underhive, even aside from other supplements and House books.

But then it ends with "If you've always wanted to try Necromunda but never knew where to start, this is your gateway to gang warfare in the underhive" (emphasis added). This makes it sound like a mere starting point, which isn't so different from calling it an 'introductory rulebook' like in the new set.

It seems they're not good at clearly describing their own products...
 

TopsyKretts

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2D/ZM rules were made legacy in N19 rulebook (because the cardboard tiles are OOP). If the new book only includes 2d, it would be a change in direction. Seems like the intention is everything is 3d now, particularly because it actually is with the new ZM plastic terrain. This being the 2nd starter with ZM plastic, I would instead expect legacy 2d/ZM rules to be omitted (no need to confuse new players about backwards compatibilty with outdated board).
 

Galtarr

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2D/ZM rules were made legacy in N19 rulebook (because the cardboard tiles are OOP). If the new book only includes 2d, it would be a change in direction. Seems like the intention is everything is 3d now, particularly because it actually is with the new ZM plastic terrain. This being the 2nd starter with ZM plastic, I would instead expect legacy 2d/ZM rules to be omitted (no need to confuse new players about backwards compatibilty with outdated board).
No need to confuse players... Agreed but that hardly seems like a basis of expectation...

I expect copy + paste with all that entails... So potentially copying older superceded rules and stats.. do I need to justify that expectation... Really?
 
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MusingWarboss

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2D/ZM rules were made legacy in N19 rulebook (because the cardboard tiles are OOP). If the new book only includes 2d, it would be a change in direction. Seems like the intention is everything is 3d now, particularly because it actually is with the new ZM plastic terrain. This being the 2nd starter with ZM plastic, I would instead expect legacy 2d/ZM rules to be omitted (no need to confuse new players about backwards compatibilty with outdated board).
Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t?? Sure I doubt any of the stuff relating to the old tiles will still be in there ... however... that plastic ruler from the first game is still present and if you look at the scenery:

o5F54hZHwIFHD8GW-665x364.jpg

It’s quite clear you can’t climb up or walk on the tops of the walls as those components are not included.

This new board is basically a slightly longer version of the crossroads tile.

So I could well see this Rulebook including Zone Mortalis focussed game missions.

Also: that Rulebook. Couldn’t they have given it a new cover!! It looks exactly like the 2017 one. That’s gonna get confusing for people who have both or want to buy just an updated paperback on eBay etc.

More to the point... why do this at all? BB just included the Hardback. Why not do that this time round??
 

MusingWarboss

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This. One revealed card is the 'Gas Trap" one. However, I don't see escher logo or anything indicating it's gang specific?
Zx9DBqpe6R5CEnBN-665x841.jpg

This blurry image is all that shows them. I wonder if it’s actual or stock image??

Main reason is I dug out my box and sifted through the cards... the text blocks on that new card do not match up with the old Escher card.

There’s more text for one, no logo nor does it suggest it’s Escher only. So I say it’s not the Escher Gas Trap but some other new (possibly) generic Gas Trap. Or something else ending “...s Trap”.


One thing for sure is whatever that preview is, it is not a direct reissue of that 2017 card.
 

TopsyKretts

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More to the point... why do this at all? BB just included the Hardback. Why not do that this time round??
BB was new edition though. Otherwise, yeah a proper rulebook in hardback would be good. But this is more likely going to be a demo rulebook covering the only the contents of the box.

BB rulebook is actually a step forward, covering all teams (released in plastic).
 
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Stoof

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2D/ZM rules were made legacy in N19 rulebook (because the cardboard tiles are OOP). If the new book only includes 2d, it would be a change in direction entirely inkeeping with the disjointed schizophrenic thinking that's representative of Newcromunda writing so far.
Fixed that for ya 😉
 

Ardavion

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Another thing to possibly sump about; its not got game tiles, it's got one game mat which in one photo looks to be about 2x2 tiles' worth, and in another 3x3 tiles' worth.

I'm not sure if it is indeed a game mat, but I'm intrigued as to how they folded it down for the big photo if it is; regardless, the mat is honestly rather bland-looking, with none of the pitfalls, bridges, toxic spills etc on the old tiles.

I thoroughly believe that the game mat will be very basic and won't be meant to survive for very long, helping to force the new players to transition into (purchasing) a proper table of scenery.
 
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MusingWarboss

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Another thing to possibly sump about; its not got game tiles, it's got one game mat which in one photo looks to be about 2x2 tiles' worth, and in another 3x3 tiles' worth.

I'm not sure if it is indeed a game mat, but I'm intrigued as to how they folded it down for the big photo if it is; regardless, the mat is honestly rather bland-looking, with none of the pitfalls, bridges, toxic spills etc on the old tiles.

I thoroughly believe that the game mat will be very basic and won't be meant to survive for very long, helping to force the new players to transition into (purchasing) a proper table of scenery.

This new board is basically a slightly longer version of the crossroads tile
As I said above. The scenery demonstrates what you’d have if you played on the crossroads tile which is two squares wider and four longer.

They say on the article these images are from that the mat is double sided, so who knows what’s on that other side. But the size you see is the size you get.

Basically just play a game in the bottom of the box and you’ll get a feel for this. I imagine the mat is the same thin material in the Dark Uprising box.
 

TopsyKretts

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Another thing to possibly sump about; its not got game tiles, it's got one game mat which in one photo looks to be about 2x2 tiles' worth, and in another 3x3 tiles' worth.

I'm not sure if it is indeed a game mat, but I'm intrigued as to how they folded it down for the big photo if it is; regardless, the mat is honestly rather bland-looking, with none of the pitfalls, bridges, toxic spills etc on the old tiles.

I thoroughly believe that the game mat will be very basic and won't be meant to survive for very long, helping to force the new players to transition into (purchasing) a proper table of scenery.
We already seen the simple paper mat, they put one in N19 box if I remember correctly. It's not meant to be anything more than a bare minimum to have something to play on. I never used mine once.

Without knowing what the book will change, I would say the box is not bad. It is unexpected and very disjoint from previous boxes (2nd time Escher is in starter box, first time for delaque, and a mix between N20 escher and N18 delaque). Nothing new except the book and possibly cards. Potentially worth while for new players. Less interesting for existing players, particularly if already having one or both of the gangs.
 
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