Necromunda The Sump: An N17/N18++ venting thread (Beware:grumpy grognards)

Ardavion

Gang Hero
Nov 22, 2011
1,039
1,752
183
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/26/necromunda-hive-war-is-the-ultimate-way-to-start-your-gang-warfare-adventures/ said:
The rulebook found in Necromunda: Hive War is unique to this boxed set. This book has been specially created to make playing the game easier than ever, and it includes all of the tweaks and improvements from all of the errata released since Necromunda came out.
:ROFLMAO:
Can someone point out these "errata", or are they referring to all the books they've released?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/26/necromunda-hive-war-is-the-ultimate-way-to-start-your-gang-warfare-adventures/ said:
There are also basic rules for all six of the Clan Houses and their unique weapon lists.
Finally!?
 

Ben_S

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Jul 26, 2015
5,704
9,721
208
Southampton, UK
They say 'all of the errata released since Necromunda came out [2017]'. They didn't say Necromunda errata. Perhaps they've incorporated tweaks and improvements from the 40k errata...
 
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TopsyKretts

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Dec 29, 2017
4,630
4,570
193
Norway
What's up with "proper preparation" card? Changed timing from before to after deployment. Sounds extremely random and hardly worth the effort?

What does "basic rules" for the six houses means? Back to N18 gangs?
 

Space Truckin

Gang Hero
Dec 16, 2015
1,518
3,063
158
Cruz Bay, St. John, USVI
So it's Groundhog day in Nottingham.
again.
We see a new version of Necromania.
Time to go back into my hovel.

Want to see this game succeed, just don't understand why they can't come up with a finished product. maybe because it's not profitable to hire competent editors and copy writers? or do they legitimately believe there is nothing wrong? according to their outbound communications that would appear to be the case. maybe they legitimately believe that they can get people to buy it regardless.
 

Ardavion

Gang Hero
Nov 22, 2011
1,039
1,752
183
The only explanation I can see is that a finished product isn't profitable. I'm an engineer, not an economist, so I wouldn't know.
Look at 40k and AoS; they're constantly being updated and revised, both core rules and codexes/army books.

They're trying a rolling update format, and it really isn't working for a small-scale skirmish game, especially when there are much more attractive skirmish games out there precisely because you can buy one book then just get on with making a group/gang/crew/force, painting it up and playing.

This new starter set, having basic rules for all the gangs, is a good step forward, but it still doesn't fix the approach they want to do of a book per gang.
 

Heart of Storm

Gang Champion
Mar 8, 2019
455
619
103
Look at 40k and AoS; they're constantly being updated and revised, both core rules and codexes/army books.

They're trying a rolling update format, and it really isn't working for a small-scale skirmish game, especially when there are much more attractive skirmish games out there precisely because you can buy one book then just get on with making a group/gang/crew/force, painting it up and playing.

This new starter set, having basic rules for all the gangs, is a good step forward, but it still doesn't fix the approach they want to do of a book per gang.
I'm going to try be positive here (in the sump of all places!) But the most common 'munda question i see is "what do I need to start"

This boxset, if its a basic rulebook, with everything you need to play without having to fish around for errata, and contains the basic GotU rules for the other gangs so you can have a go with them before updating in a "House of..." thats going to be a good thing.

If this is another stab at making the rules that supercedes the hardback rulebook + errata, making this a necessary purchase then I'll be putting my stake in the ground and sticking with N20, as I have no intention of buying this box set.
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
4,580
10,520
148
36
Sevres 92130 France
The previous two attempts at a boxset and basic rulebook didn't solve anything so I really doubt third time will be the charm.

I don't expect this to do any better a job than the hardback rulebook + GotU. In fact, I'm afraid it will muddle the water even further because we'll now have a rulebook more recent than the House of books that doesn't incorporate all the content from the House of books (I really doubt there will be Prospects or specialist champs in that book).
 
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MedMos

Gang Hero
Yak Comp 1st Place
Nov 10, 2014
1,636
4,178
183
Møn, Denmark
Look at 40k and AoS; they're constantly being updated and revised, both core rules and codexes/army books.

They're trying a rolling update format, and it really isn't working for a small-scale skirmish game, especially when there are much more attractive skirmish games out there precisely because you can buy one book then just get on with making a group/gang/crew/force, painting it up and playing.

This new starter set, having basic rules for all the gangs, is a good step forward, but it still doesn't fix the approach they want to do of a book per gang.
The rolling update model would really only work for a game with some kind of competitive scene, wouldn't it? Skirmish or no, for a supposedly fun, narrative experience you just don't want to constantly have to buy new books and/or models.
 

Ardavion

Gang Hero
Nov 22, 2011
1,039
1,752
183
The previous two attempts at a boxset and basic rulebook didn't solve solve anything so I really doubt third time will be the charm.

I don't expect this to do any better a job than the hardback rulebook + GotU. In fact, I'm afraid it will muddle the water even further because we'll now have a rulebook more recent than the House of books that doesn't incorporate all the content from the House of books (I really doubt there will be Prospects or specialist champs in that book).
They have an asterisk in the article telling you that if you like the rules of a gang in the new starter set, you should buy the relevant House Of book "to explore them in more detail", so there's no doubt there'll be inconsistencies.
 

cronevald

Gang Hero
Jun 5, 2016
736
1,393
103
Missoula, MT
The rolling update model would really only work for a game with some kind of competitive scene, wouldn't it? Skirmish or no, for a supposedly fun, narrative experience you just don't want to constantly have to buy new books and/or models.
I think that hits the heart of the problem. A good game requires a limited number of rules resources and models. The GW sales model is built on a stream of constant new or reimagined products.
 

MedMos

Gang Hero
Yak Comp 1st Place
Nov 10, 2014
1,636
4,178
183
Møn, Denmark
They CAN... they just don't want to.

There are many people who have purchased 4-5 different versions of the same book. That is far better in terms of profit than them buying one finished, polished one.
Yup, I'm pretty sure you could travel a few hundred pages back in the sump and find the "if people keep buying it they will keep releasing it"-argument.
 

MusingWarboss

Hive Guilder
Oct 31, 2013
2,104
4,957
183
There is a Necromunda Errata... whether it is up to date or contains errors is another thing entirely.
Let’s just call it Necromunda Error-ta from now.
Look at 40k and AoS; they're constantly being updated and revised, both core rules and codexes/army books.

They're trying a rolling update format, and it really isn't working for a small-scale skirmish game, especially when there are much more attractive skirmish games out there precisely because you can buy one book then just get on with making a group/gang/crew/force, painting it up and playing.

This new starter set, having basic rules for all the gangs, is a good step forward, but it still doesn't fix the approach they want to do of a book per gang.
This is one of the things that made me refuse to buy any more 40k rulebooks - I hate having to relearn a whole game system so I can simply keep playing a game I already know how to play!

I never brought anything after being stung with 6th. There’s no point in keep buying when I barely get to play.
The previous two attempts at a boxset and basic rulebook didn't solve anything so I really doubt third time will be the charm.
It’ll do wonders for their sales though when they discontinue the N18 Hardback Rulebook and GotU and this is the only place you can buy the main rules.

Which you know will happen. It was their sales model back in 2017!
 

Space Truckin

Gang Hero
Dec 16, 2015
1,518
3,063
158
Cruz Bay, St. John, USVI
It’ll do wonders for their sales though when they discontinue the N18 Hardback Rulebook and GotU and this is the only place you can buy the main rules.

Which you know will happen. It was their sales model back in 2017!


If my old ass memory is correct think this happened with 7th 40k. They repackaged Dark Vengence which resulted in a lot of 2nd hand models on the market and a younger dumber Space Truckin into deciding to build a Dark Angels army off that.... hey ho.... all those Chaos Cultists did come in handy!!
We never did see a separate release of the flamer guy, commisar jacket dude and hooded evil hand guy did we?
 

Punktaku

Un-Dis-Honored
Honored Tribesman
Apr 4, 2017
7,480
12,526
228
Connecticut, USA
Yeah, the heavies and leaders never made it out of the box set. I've picked up a few of the cultists box (for old school Cawdor reinforcements) and it's just the 5 cultists with basic weapons or CC weapons. Oh yeah, bald guy with cyber implants never made it out of the box either.
 

Sundown Dreamer

Gang Champion
Mar 6, 2018
460
512
103
Tübingen, Deutschland
Sometimes I feel with GW and Necromunda like I'm trapped like a mouse in a mouse trap.

I'm still a big fan of the environment, the planet and its world. I like the new terrain of Zone Mortalis and most of the miniatures too, but other than that it's a constant back and forth, a lot of confusion and constant conflict of feelings.

What I would have expected and wished for would have been an underlying uniform set of rules on which everything else is based. And somehow I don't see it. I don't have all of the "House of" books yet, but at some point it got too much for me. I lost the overview. There are also health reasons for this, but that's why I skipped and started all over again. - With the Necromunda Underhive box.

I'm not really in the mood for Hive War and another starter rulebook, but who knows, the new and apparently revised and simplified set of rules might help here and is possibly what I want and need right now. So far I don't know if this will be a fresh start. Or maybe it's just another marketing ploy? Well we will find out. At the same time, however, I consider Hive War could be an admission that the previous project and type of his publications have failed.

At home, on the PC, to learn and when doing handicrafts, I mostly use other works, but I also like and enjoy reading and collecting the (official) Necromunda books.
And if I do that, then of course I want to be able to use them, that the rules are good and error-free, that everything makes sense and that my books have a value and keep it as long as possible. I am happy about new miniatures and extensions. But with a skirmisher and an such experienced company, however, I would have expected the game to be constantly developed and built on top of each other.

Continuous development, easy understandability and playability and sustainability.

- Is that really too much to ask?
 

JayTee

Ganger
Jun 14, 2015
142
267
63
I think that hits the heart of the problem. A good game requires a limited number of rules resources and models. The GW sales model is built on a stream of constant new or reimagined products.
Adeptus Titanicus is an example where they do it right. Limited number of units (12ish depending on how you count Knight variants), tight rules with little room for crazy rules arguments, but still regular updates mostly focussed around narrative. They've even done a nearly-complete compilation book that brings the Loyalists up-to-date in a single book with all rules for all previous released rules, except for the scenarios.

It's also by the Specialist Design Studio.

GW clearly can do it "right", but there's obviously some design vision differences when it comes to Necromunda.

AT still has some GW-pants-on-head pricing problems. The Warlord titan is a lovely model, that requires purchasing another ~£25 sprue to get some of the weapon choices, Forgeworld still has a line of obnoxiously expensive 'upgrades', and there's still frustrating enforced-scarcity of cards.