Necromunda The Sump: An N17/N18++ venting thread (Beware:grumpy grognards)

Hawkins44

Gang Champion
Yak Comp 2nd Place
I suppose it doesn’t have to quite as durable as you can reprint a fresh one if it ever got really damaged.

Should be good enough for most people though.
Exactly. I have done some destruction tests, and even reckless movement of miniatures over the paper (has to be smooth paper, though) does nothing. Nail scratches will damage it, though.

This can be prevented by using some foils, or paper varnishes, but that is just theoretical.
 

almic85

Cranky Git
Tribe Council
Oct 30, 2014
2,143
3,738
163
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
If you want home made tiles to last longer you can use high density fibreboard instead of cardboard for the base and put a seal over the top of the printed paper sheet.

You could also try running the paper through a laminator before sticking it to the base to give it some extra protection, but I’m not sure how well it will stick to the cardboard after being laminated.
 

Ardavion

Gang Hero
Nov 22, 2011
1,197
2,103
183
Grump/new stuff combo:

Special launch deal for The Silver Bayonet: £82+P&P for 26 metal miniatures (one of which is exclusive - the FOMO!!!), sufficient for three Units (or two Units if you wanted more models per Unit?), and a complete rulebook - goes up to £94+P&P after next Tuesday, deal ends 8th November.


Compared to GW's latest offerings, it's an absolute bargain - why can't GW make more things like this? How can the smaller companies, with fewer resources, make things for less?! In "supposedly more expensive to produce, that's why GW moved to plastic" metal, to boot!?

Also, other than the metal base they're cast on, NO. TACTICAL. ROCKS.

I've got my eye on it, will probably get around to putting an order in on the weekend. I don't even normally do "historic" stuff, this will be my first foray into it - The Barons War Kickstarters I backed in the past was for "generic medieval/fantasy" minis, so I'm not counting those...
 

Stoof

Yakmarines 2nd Co. Word Priest
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
Jun 1, 2016
3,654
12,668
278
Ellon, United Kingdom
Wouldn't want metal minis if you threw them at me for free...
Thow them at me! Throw them at me!

Yes, other companies can make miniatures just as nice, and indeed often better than, GW's ones for significantly less.

I just ordered by terrible accident a fully serviceable Bolt Action army (8th Army). 36 soldiers with weapon & head options, a machine gun team, an artillery piece, an anti-tank gun, a mortar team and two vehicles. A mix of metal & plastic miniatures. Plus markers etc. £57 all in.

GW has bigger overheads, sure - they run all those physical shops in a world of online sales for a start, which must cost an absolute fortune. They have writers, artists etc on staff. Whilst warlord and most others are manufacturers who are either mainly online sales or stocking other people's shops. But GW also price gouge like there's no tomorrow - there's no denying that.
 

MusingWarboss

Hive Guilder
Oct 31, 2013
2,393
5,646
193
Warlord released an “epic scale” American Civil War set recently. I’m not quite sure of the scale but looks like 14mm to me.

Anyway, £80/$100US gets you:
  • A5 Black Power Rulebook
  • A4 Epic Battles Booklet with Additional Rules, Background and Scenarios.
  • 2,400 Men, 24 Cannon and 24 Mounted Officers (24 sprues of Push-fit plastic)
  • Plastic bases.
  • Full colour flags
  • MDF barn.
  • Snake fences
  • Dice.
Just sayin’.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
5,200
5,194
193
Norway
Thow them at me! Throw them at me!

Yes, other companies can make miniatures just as nice, and indeed often better than, GW's ones for significantly less.

I just ordered by terrible accident a fully serviceable Bolt Action army (8th Army). 36 soldiers with weapon & head options, a machine gun team, an artillery piece, an anti-tank gun, a mortar team and two vehicles. A mix of metal & plastic miniatures. Plus markers etc. £57 all in.

GW has bigger overheads, sure - they run all those physical shops in a world of online sales for a start, which must cost an absolute fortune. They have writers, artists etc on staff. Whilst warlord and most others are manufacturers who are either mainly online sales or stocking other people's shops. But GW also price gouge like there's no tomorrow - there's no denying that.
Ww2 games got that glorious divide between rules companies and minis companies. Wish all games were like that.
 

almic85

Cranky Git
Tribe Council
Oct 30, 2014
2,143
3,738
163
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
Ww2 games got that glorious divide between rules companies and minis companies. Wish all games were like that.

I’m not sure I agree here.

Most games really benefit from having a good theme linked with a good set of rules.

WWII games (and all historical games) benefit from having the most detailed theme of all, being actual real life, so when someone comes up with a solid ruleset all they need to do is apply it to the existing “fluff” of WWII and away you go.

Sci-fi and fantasy don’t work the same though as there is no “fixed history” to work from and it needs to be established for each game system to work with a wider audience.

There are definitely some more generic systems that can adapt to whatever sci-fi or fantasy setting you can come up with, like frost grave/star grave, but they tend not to get the same traction as those games that have a strong fluff and crunch mix.

Edit: I realise I went off on a weird tangent here.

The point I was trying to make was that Historical figures can stand apart from their setting and cross rulesets, but sci-fi (and fantasy to a degree) figures really need to be linked to their fluff.
 

MedMos

Gang Hero
Yak Comp 1st Place
Nov 10, 2014
1,974
5,049
183
Møn, Denmark
The point I was trying to make was that Historical figures can stand apart from their setting and cross rulesets, but sci-fi (and fantasy to a degree) figures really need to be linked to their fluff.
And I'm not sure I agree here. It's only the case if the fluff is very specific to the setting. Games like This is Not a Test, Stargrave and Frostgrave provide a framework where you can use the models you like, and very easily make your own theme within the setting. GW just goes very heavy on the recognisable (and ip-protectable) styles and names.
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
1,209
2,008
153
Edinburgh, UK
Have any of you looked at the F28 ruleset? It's a miniatures agnostic, excellent, ruleset from some Scandi developers. There's a Facebook group with newsletter support at https://www.facebook.com/groups/283981172037304

What is F28?
F28 is a tactical level miniature wargame intended for use in the 28-32mm scale, allowing you to recreate vicious battles between forces ranging from small skirmishes where each model fights on its own, to larger battles where models are grouped into larger units. The system also supports light rpg-style narrative play, where players command only a handful of models each and fight semi-cooperatively versus the forces of a Game Master. While it supports a multitude of settings it aims for the fantastic rather than the naturalistic; it is not a classic wargame.
● Speed and Simplicity – F28 is designed to be simple when it comes to mechanics and play very, very fast; but note that this doesn’t necessarily mean that games are short – rather, it means that the amount of “game mechanics per player decision” is kept as low as possible. However, we still believe that we have managed to create some tactical depth; it is just that it is more “chess like” in nature rather than being overburdened with tables, dice rolls and statline lookups.
● Simultaneous action – in F28, play is semi-simultaneous, meaning that it is always in a sense “your turn”; you are constantly responding to what your opponent is doing. This keeps you involved and engaged in what is going on, and people taking longer turns is less of a problem. There is no or very little downtime.
● Stories and Simulation – F28 is designed to support “narrative” gaming rather than “tournament” gaming; while we have nothing against tournament gaming, we have always thought that tabletop miniature games lend themselves better to more friendly gaming, where the players tell exciting tales in their favorite settings, rather than just going cutthroat head-to-head in tournaments.
What you will find in the book are core rules that allow you to play basic games, extra/optional rules that add spice, variety and tactical depth to your games, information and examples of how to build your own lists and scenarios for three different game-modes: battle, skirmish and narrative.
● Battles are huge clashes between armies; several squads of models and accompanying vehicle support, along with legendary characters and monsters.
● Skirmishes take place between “bands” of individual models, vying for supremacy and constantly evolving as a result of their many clashes. The scale is toned down, but the rules are more detailed.
● Narratives introduce a narrator, or “GM”, which opens up a whole new world of possibility. Players command small “combat teams” of perhaps three to six models, where every model is a special character with its own story.
In the file area of this group you will find the latest errata, as well as our newsletter.

There's also a revised version of the game at https://www.wargamevault.com/product/371021/F28-War-Always-Changes-Revised-Edition, with a print version coming later this year.
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
1,209
2,008
153
Edinburgh, UK
I think the guy/one of the guys tried promoting it here. Never got around to look at it, too many systems too little time!
Yeah I saw it on Facebook when thinking what way to go with Inq28 rules, and while I haven't yet played it, I really like the community, which stretches across almost all game systems and features beautiful conversions and even 2nd edition minis on the field!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MedMos

Gunkaiser

Spyrer Superior
Honored Tribesman
May 24, 2017
1,013
1,432
203
Corvallis, Oregon
At some point you've got to pick a handful of rulesets and stick with them... There's only so much time left (and if you have a Steam library on top of that, well...)

I've got loads of rulebooks I've never used some of which I'd like to make a project but probably never will. A number of boardgames too (I backed the new Heroes of Normandie + Solo mode), including Blackstone Fortress which I'm only halfway through. I have 153 games on Steam, 2 of which are Perfect level completion. When you could go at any time (no one's time is guaranteed) best to focus I think. But that's just where I'm at now, others will differ.
 

Sundown Dreamer

Gang Hero
Mar 6, 2018
511
596
103
Tübingen, Deutschland
I know I'm a little late again and I'm not sure whether I have remembered and understood overall everything correctly, but I would still like to contribute my views on the Necromunda tiles and playing field surfaces.

Necromunda now offers us an almost unmanageable abundance and therefore also of playing fields and opportunities. When it comes to playing field flooring and tiles, everything has its justification and advantages and disadvantages for me.

The first decision is actually whether you want to play Necromunda only as a board game, or mainly as a 3D game, or whether you want to have both options. And then it depends on what options and how much space, storage space, money and interest someone has. Also where and with whom you play. Depending on the situation, Necromunda offers us so many alternatives that it has almost become a small introduction and compilation:


1. The cardboard floor tiles from Underhive and Badzone Delta-7.

The cardboard tiles are particularly suitable for Necromunda as a board game and a quick and varied set-up and can be stored in a space-saving manner. They are also simple and easy to transport. For the areas marked in black, you can easily build your own walls and pillars from Styrodur, or you can buy some made of MDF from different manufacturers.

Among the normal game play for Sector Mechanicus games, they are good for educational purposes, for family game, to take with you when visiting, or for quick individual games.

I find them so interesting and important in terms of play that in retrospect I would wish I had both sets twice. Also because of the printing on both sides.


2. Mouse pad similar game or play mats

Playmats are particularly suitable for a quick temporary set-up and the free installation of your own pieces of terrain, or made of MDF or plastic. They are also comfortable on our hands and miniatures.

For Necromunda, for example, the "Game mat - Underhive" from Deep Cut Studio.
Our local free dealer always has a big 4x6 on a large table as a tablecloth. Robust, beautiful, practical and fast.

Play mats and individual pieces of terrain are likely to be the easiest and best option for a rule-compliant 3D set-up and the Implementation of different scenarios.


3. The paper game mat from Dark Uprising and Hive War

A simple and inexpensive supplement to newer Necromunda boxes, which enables a quick start, especially for newcomers who have nothing else.

For longer and permanent use, however, I would apply them either with spray adhesive on foamboard, or on Kappa foamboard with an adhesive surface on one side. Foamboard has the advantage that it is very light and therefore easy to stow away and should be stable enough for normal private use (at home).

If you have two, you actually have an atmospheric playing surface that you can either put on two plates or have it printed as a game mat.


4. Zone Mortalis Floor Tiles (plastic)

They are certainly a highlight, but they cost a lot! They would be too expensive for me just for 3D replicas of the cardboard tiles. I think their strength lies above all in the construction of realistic and diorama-like tiles or entire gaming tables.

Good examples of how you can build with it and what you can do with it would for me include "Rapid Tabletop" (rapid_tabletop), or the terrain presented by Bjarni (bjarnidali) on WHC. I also find the approach at the three-part Necromunda Hang Out and Play series on Twitch and the gaming board of Andy Hoare (anandyhoare on Instagram) very interesting.


5. Do it yourself.

For example, you can use the cardboard tiles or the paper mat as templates to create your own play mat and have it printed. Or as a starting point for additional tiles. See for example Hawkins44 here in the forum.

I would always draw tiles that I created or downloaded myself onto something after printing them out. If they are to go with the Underhive cardboard tiles on cardboard of the appropriate thickness. Otherwise, foamboard or MDF would also be suitable.

I haven't tried it yet, but in addition to that, to protect against abrasion, it is likely to be recommended to print on coated photo paper and / or to additionally seal the surface.

By the way, if someone is in the mood for a change in between, I could recommend the print 'n play game "Zombie Plague". Find it on boardgamegeek.com and easy to make.


6. Prefabricated for DIY

What I was still waiting for at the beginning would have been a pre-cut ZM-like structure made of cardboard, which can be glued to MDF boards, Styrodur or other tile materials.


7. For the sake of completeness, the self-made 3D game table for Necromunda.

Do-it-yourself construction opens up an endless variety of possibilities. The construction could be modular and materials are also often sustainable. In my opinion, certain things can only be properly realized by building them yourself. To name just a few in my opinion, the Sump and Hive bottom, the Ash desert, the Slag sea, or mountains with caves and mines.


Personally, I myself drive on multiple equal tracks. I use my cardboard tiles for Necromunda as a board game (Zone Mortalis games). For 3D games (Sector Mechanicus games) a mixture of self-built playing field and Zone Mortalis Floor Tiles made of plastic, which, thanks to their Styrodur substructure, can either be combined or used on their own. At home I like and prefer a detailed and more like a playable dioramatic table. In order to have enough variety and to be able to implement different scenarios, one should also always pay attention to a certain modularity and flexibility. And with all forms of playing fields or tables, you should always have enough scatter terrain and free terrain pieces up your sleeve for free placement.
 
Last edited:

Space Truckin

Gang Hero
Dec 16, 2015
1,618
3,268
158
Cruz Bay, St. John, USVI
At some point you've got to pick a handful of rulesets and stick with them...

Excellent advice! And dont forget all the un painted minis to finish, terrain to build etc.

3 to 4 is a great number.
For me...
Blackstone Fortress - tactical rpg lite.
Space Hulk - simple rules and classic
Middle Earth Strategy Battle. - excellent rules and fantasy still skirmish sized

Necromunda - will wait till young one gets older. He is more burrows and badgers right now.

On the mini side just ordered my first Mantic figs! A Animal set for hobby indoctrinating the toddler...and for future use w MESBG.

Do you know how hard it is to find a 'wolverine ' mini of the actual animal and not the marvek character?

He is fascinated with the critters.
 

MedMos

Gang Hero
Yak Comp 1st Place
Nov 10, 2014
1,974
5,049
183
Møn, Denmark
They are cool critters!
For me it's nce for the sci fi stuff, frostgrave for the fantasy itch (but everything can pretty much be used for mordheim/wyrd wars) and gaslands for fun and racing!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Space Truckin