Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware:grumpy grognards)

Trafalgar Law

Gang Hero
Mar 14, 2017
1,204
2,275
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Chorley, Lancashire, UK
Yes, but then we end up with one gang snowballs and wins all the battles... same old situation!
Which is what has happened in every newcromunda campaign I've attempted (all of which got abandoned long before completion). I always wonder how the players who claim the new version works mostly fine get around this issue? (Campaign balance was the biggest bugbear I had with the new edition, up until the House of Crap books invalidated my previous purchases).
 

Stoof

Yakmarines 2nd Co. Word Priest
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
Jun 1, 2016
3,875
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Ellon, United Kingdom
To be fair, and it pains me to be fair in the Sump, but one gang dominating happened/happens in a lot of ORB/NCE campaigns too.

But it's not as bad as N17+ due to underdog/taxation systems that actually work.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
5,631
5,668
193
Norway
To be fair, and it pains me to be fair in the Sump, but one gang dominating happened/happens in a lot of ORB/NCE campaigns too.

But it's not as bad as N17+ due to underdog/taxation systems that actually work.
I don't remember that too well. Maybe because the underdog/loser still got money to play with and recover their losses? Territories weren't at stake back then, so income didn't rely on winning?
Which is what has happened in every newcromunda campaign I've attempted (all of which got abandoned long before completion). I always wonder how the players who claim the new version works mostly fine get around this issue? (Campaign balance was the biggest bugbear I had with the new edition, up until the House of Crap books invalidated my previous purchases).
Seems like very few have a problem yes, I would love to be a fly on the wall and see how a "functional" campaign plays out (without heavy house ruling, massive self-restrictions and intervening arbitrators). I've seen some people say they just deal out random amount of cash to the biggest losers, which sounds... like a cheap solution.
 

Trafalgar Law

Gang Hero
Mar 14, 2017
1,204
2,275
123
Chorley, Lancashire, UK
To be fair, and it pains me to be fair in the Sump, but one gang dominating happened/happens in a lot of ORB/NCE campaigns too.

But it's not as bad as N17+ due to underdog/taxation systems that actually work.
I remember a lot more swings and quite abrupt changes in Orb campaigns. The underdog bonuses combined with good/bad luck could turn a campaign practically on it's head.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
5,631
5,668
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Norway
Looking at the new Outlander campaign, it's reminiscent of let's say the base building part of XCOM. Ideal for single player, building the base bigger and stronger after every victorious battle. How does this work in Necromunda? Whoever wins the first battle gains more income, builds bigger base, gets stronger. Loser gets less income, spend resources to heal/replace their injured/dead fighters. Now the winner is more powerful and the loser is weaker. Next cycle? Repeat.

I'm gonna play kill team for a while longer 😂
 

Sundown Dreamer

Gang Hero
Mar 6, 2018
581
693
103
Tübingen, Deutschland
I've seen some people say they just deal out random amount of cash to the biggest losers, which sounds... like a cheap solution.

I wouldn't like such a solution either! - I would refuse that and would come up with something else beforehand. Just a couple of ideas:

The gangs belong to a house and if one is particularly successful, the house will certainly want a share too. Or the house chief invites to an audience. Declining is not possible, so someone is missing during the time as fighter in the gang.

Word of success and happiness gets around quickly. Everyone holds out their hand and wants something from you. Or bribes and informants have to be paid. Conquered territories must be guarded, administered and supplied. Either your own people are missing or you have to pay someone to do it.

Or within the gang there is a dispute over the distribution of the spoils. Parties form in the gang and a fight ensues. You could make a mini-game out of this. For example, take and adapt the rules of "Brewhouse Bash". And who is knocked out or injured ...
 

Troubled Child

Gang Champion
Jan 2, 2018
439
925
93
UK
I would love to be a fly on the wall and see how a "functional" campaign plays out
The fact that it's only 6 games probably helps. Even if everything goes wrong for you then at least it'll be over quickly. I'd guess that if they got into through modern 40k then they also have no idea what a well written game looks like so they don't know what they are missing. It's like how most of China has never seen the classics of cinema and are therefore easily impressed by the crap that Hollywood manages to sneak past the censors these days.

That said there must be a complete campaign on YT if you can manage to sit through it, though I'd guess that they are run with a pretty small number of gangs.
 

Malevolent Pink Cat

Gang Champion
Jan 10, 2019
304
586
108
Speaking of balance, how do all the guild alliances actually work in a campaign, at least in terms of balancing?

Unless I've missed something there's no upfront cost, and the fighters from the guild just tag along regardless of fighter numbers?
 

almic85

Cranky Git
Oct 30, 2014
2,290
4,050
163
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
The main trick I have found to having the new campaign be balanced is to make sure everyone is playing the same number of games as the attacker and defender.

The other thing that is more a house rule is to start each gang with a set number of territories at the start of the campaign, with one of them being a settlement that can’t be lost. This means that each gang starts with territories that allow them to stay in the game even if they lose the first game or two.

My current campaign is actually running with each gang holding 5 territories. If they win they get to take one territory off the loser and work 6 territories for that post game sequence only before choosing to lose one at the end of the next game. The loser only gets to work the four remaining territories before generating a new one at the end of the next game. It seems to have made each gang stay competitive through the campaign, though it doesn’t do anything to stop gangs from continuing to grow.
 

Daganisoraan

Ganger
Oct 25, 2021
77
73
28
Back in N95, the worst thing I found that unbalanced leagues/campaign super fast were the rescue missions. Nothing worse than to give a free battle out of game order to free some gang member.

Have people found a solution to that problem in other editions?
 

JawRippa

Gang Hero
Mar 31, 2017
1,434
1,958
138
Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Back in N95, the worst thing I found that unbalanced leagues/campaign super fast were the rescue missions. Nothing worse than to give a free battle out of game order to free some gang member.

Have people found a solution to that problem in other editions?
Rescue and stealth missions were the worst in old necromunda as well. If you check the forum for anything rescue-related, there are many houserules that allow skipping those.
 

Luke82

Gang Champion
Mar 11, 2017
484
1,531
123
Basildon, United Kingdom
Although I never found rescue missions to upset ORB / NCE campaign balance I found that players naturally started paying ransoms for captured fighters rather than play again, normally due to time constraints more than anything… it was good to tie up things in a single evening rather than leave something unsettled like that, given our differing work patterns and real world commitments might mean it’s a while before we played specific opponents again.

We did have one guy drop in for one game of our campaign, capture a fighter, then never play again, disappearing into the sump with no chance of a rescue mission ever taking place ha ha.
 

Daganisoraan

Ganger
Oct 25, 2021
77
73
28
[...] normally due to time constraints more than anything… it was good to tie up things in a single evening rather than leave something unsettled like that [...]
In my case, all players were member of a student club at our local college (back in 98-ish), and most didn't had jobs, so we had all the time in the world. As for ransom, when i began playing redemption that went out of the window and forced rescue mission. The worst cases were when wounds suffered during a rescue mission resulted in more people being captured and so more rescue mission. It was pretty crazy.

I'm asking if people have better solutions since I'm planning to start a league after the holidays and would like to avoid rescue missions.
 
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cronevald

Gang Hero
Jun 5, 2016
898
1,836
103
Missoula, MT
Although I never found rescue missions to upset ORB / NCE campaign balance I found that players naturally started paying ransoms for captured fighters rather than play again, normally due to time constraints more than anything… it was good to tie up things in a single evening rather than leave something unsettled like that, given our differing work patterns and real world commitments might mean it’s a while before we played specific opponents again.

We did have one guy drop in for one game of our campaign, capture a fighter, then never play again, disappearing into the sump with no chance of a rescue mission ever taking place ha ha.
This was my experience as well. I generally enjoyed rescues but paid many bounties because they would pop up at the most inopportune moments. One of my favorite games ever played was a rescue I lost. A very cagey Delaque spent several turns keeping his models completely out of sight and tabled my sentries with shotguns in a single turn. It was a bit frustrating at the time but it was perfectly executed, one of the most cinematic games I've ever played.
 

Stoof

Yakmarines 2nd Co. Word Priest
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
Jun 1, 2016
3,875
13,632
278
Ellon, United Kingdom
I'm asking if people have better solutions since I'm planning to start a league after the holidays and would like to avoid rescue missions.

At TribeMeets we use the WHEEL (table) OF DOOOOOM!

If someone can't/won't pay a ransom they have to roll on the table, to save bogging down the event with rescue missions (and I think it's some kind of Necromunda rule that at least one fighter gets catured during a rescue mission, necessitating another rescue mission). It's a fairly harsh table - to encourage people just to pay a ransom/come to a gentlemen's agreement on returning the fighter.
 

Trafalgar Law

Gang Hero
Mar 14, 2017
1,204
2,275
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Chorley, Lancashire, UK
This was my experience as well. I generally enjoyed rescues but paid many bounties because they would pop up at the most inopportune moments. One of my favorite games ever played was a rescue I lost. A very cagey Delaque spent several turns keeping his models completely out of sight and tabled my sentries with shotguns in a single turn. It was a bit frustrating at the time but it was perfectly executed, one of the most cinematic games I've ever played.
Rescue and raid could be brutal scenarios. Unless you were unlucky with the amount of attackers it wasn't too hard to achieve what you've described here, which was my go to tactic in these scenarios, sneak about until you were in position to gank all the sentries in one go, rescue the prisoner or destroy the objective and then set up a gun line to slaughter the reinforcements as they trickle in...
 
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