Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware:grumpy grognards)

Wasteland

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Apr 7, 2018
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Maybe it means that the Chaos Dwarfs are so awesome that they attract followers of other races drawn to their cruelty and power?
It´s more likely that Hashut due to GW´s negligence became desperate for new followers. So he lowered the bar of entry. Now ALL kinds of degenerates with a fondness for outrageous hats are allowed to join the party.
 
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ntw3001

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Feb 17, 2011
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(a) is the answer. You have to trust that your opponent has read and interpreted the rules correctly. If something sounds too good/weird you can always ask them to show you in the book.

40k pretty much exclusively runs like this. There aren’t any summaries in the codex’s anymore and often players will be referring to rules from the core rulebook plus 2-3 supplements during a game.

If you are in a tournament you are expected to bring any rulebooks that you will be referencing during the game in case your opponent queries the rule.

And yes 9th Ed 40k with all of its new stratagems (think tactic cards on steroids) is a massive game of gotcha moments until you learn all of your opponents rules.

Aha! You charge my leader, eh? Well the joke's on you! I have both a Goremist Battleshroud and a Subatomic Ion Field, meaning your fighter actually charges himself, twice simultaneously! And further to this, I Passively Engage my Temporal Castellum to reclaim a Banked Action from my previous game, activating my Encroacher's Lexical Divergence talent to swap each instance of the word 'fighter' for 'player' for the remainder of the action, meaning all injuries caused are instead applied to your actual, physical person! Aha!
 
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enyoss

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Jul 19, 2015
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This kind of thing makes me angry. Just have number 1 and its all good. The other two are absolutely not needed and the result of overthinking a simple situation.
It’s another step away from abstraction which doesn’t help. We get it GW - you can turn a key and hope, push start, and bump start a car. We didn’t need you to capture all that tediously in the rules.

It’s a bit like the Versatile trait. You can fight from further away because your weapon is long, so here’s a whole new mechanic to capture that etc etc. which works technically, but is fiddly and tedious. When they could just have said long weapons have -1 to-hit from non-versatile reaction attacks.

Over abstraction is bad, over articulation also bad.
 

Pagumb

Gang Hero
Honored Tribesman
Sep 10, 2020
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Aha! You charge my leader, eh? Well the joke's on you! I have both a Goremist Battleshroud and a Subatomic Ion Field, meaning your fighter actually charges himself, twice simultaneously! And further to this, I Passively Engage my Temporal Castellum to reclaim a Banked Action from my previous game, activating my Encroacher's Lexical Divergence talent to swap each instance of the word 'fighter' for 'player' for the remainder of the action, meaning all injuries caused are instead applied to your actual, physical person! Aha!'
That’s what the in store Magic tournaments sound like to me at my FLGS. Soooo much tapping…
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
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Dec 29, 2017
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Here is a complete summary of vehicle actions:
  • Move (Simple): Move + 1 pivot.
  • Manoeuvre (Simple): Half move + any number of pivots (funny how each pivot is still limited to 90°).
  • Move & Shoot (Basic): Half move + 1 pivot + shoot 1 weapon.
  • Fire All (Basic): Shoot all weapons.
  • Reload (Simple): Yaddayadda.
  • Aim (Basic): Yaddayadda.
  • Drift (Basic): Half move "in a straight line anywhere in its Side arc". Afterwards, pass a handling test or lose control.
  • Ram (Double): Move + D6" + 1 pivot. If crashing, it suffers reduced damage itself (counts Move stat as halved).
  • Spin (Basic): Move + 1 180° pivot. Afterwards, pass a handling test or lose control.
  • Full Throttle (Double): 3xMove + 1 pivot. Afterwards, if pivoting, pass a handling test (-1 modifier) or lose control.
Notes: Move is generally straight forward up to movement stat. Pivot is 90° turn around center, before, during or after move.

Then there are actions when stationary as already mentioned:

  • Jump Start (Simple): Handling test (+1 modifier if having 2+ 'Wounds' remaining) to become mobile.
  • Turn-over (Basic): Move D3" + 1 pivot. +1 modifier to the next Restart test (Jump Start or End phase?).
  • Free Wheel (Basic): Move D6" either forward or back (randomize).
Finally Broken vehicles, equivalent to Broken fighters:
  • Mobile - Break for Air (Double): Move 3D6" + any number of pivots (doesn't specify 90° here - oh no what to do).
  • Stationary - Burn Out (Double): Place D3 smoke blasts (5") within 1". -1 modifier to Restart test in the End phase per smoke blast.
Perhaps some things I find less meaningful has some hidden meaning in the official text, but I'm not gonna recite verbatim 2 pages full of rules to give you an impression. More details on RAW can be found for example here:
1652458807870.png
 
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TopsyKretts

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The scenarios are closely related to the boxed content, meaning that some of the scenarios randomize between Pitch Black or not. Please note the mat is double-sided:
1652474586795.png

1652474598641.png


Delaque and other light-flipping gangs would be even more abhorred now :LOL: Would the Core Servitor be able to shut the lights on/off in ash wastes?!?

This is a bit nitpicky, common sense would go a long way in this case. This is a remainder to show that when introducing new stuff (like changing the battlefield type), it won't be perfectly compatible with a lot of old content. It seems like GW make a 'season' based game where the new stuff (ideally) works within its own border, but pay little to no respect to whatever content was released 1 or 2 years ago. Rolling roads, rolling rules!
 
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JawRippa

Gang Hero
Mar 31, 2017
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Note that Aim only works on Fire all, but not Move & shoot , as that is dangerously close to “being intuitive” territory and we can’t have any of that.
Also wtf is that Burn out action, just why?! Can’t wait for van saar hoverstuff to burn out and cough out smoke clouds
 

ClockworkOrange

Executive Officer in charge of Pandemics & Trolls!
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Tribe Council
Dec 29, 2012
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It´s more likely that Hashut due to GW´s negligence became desperate for new followers. So he lowered the bar of entry. Now ALL kinds of degenerates with a fondness for outrageous hats are allowed to join the party.
Don’t you mean raised the bar?
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
1,333
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Edinburgh, UK
Here is a complete summary of vehicle actions:
  • Move (Simple): Move + 1 pivot.
  • Manoeuvre (Simple): Half move + any number of pivots (funny how each pivot is still limited to 90°).
  • Move & Shoot (Basic): Half move + 1 pivot + shoot 1 weapon.
  • Fire All (Basic): Shoot all weapons.
  • Reload (Simple): Yaddayadda.
  • Aim (Basic): Yaddayadda.
  • Drift (Basic): Half move "in a straight line anywhere in its Side arc". Afterwards, pass a handling test or lose control.
  • Ram (Double): Move + D6" + 1 pivot. If crashing, it suffers reduced damage itself (counts Move stat as halved).
  • Spin (Basic): Move + 1 180° pivot. Afterwards, pass a handling test or lose control.
  • Full Throttle (Double): 3xMove + 1 pivot. Afterwards, if pivoting, pass a handling test (-1 modifier) or lose control.
Notes: Move is generally straight forward up to movement stat. Pivot is 90° turn around center, before, during or after move.

Then there are actions when stationary as already mentioned:

  • Jump Start (Simple): Handling test (+1 modifier if having 2+ 'Wounds' remaining) to become mobile.
  • Turn-over (Basic): Move D3" + 1 pivot. +1 modifier to the next Restart test (Jump Start or End phase?).
  • Free Wheel (Basic): Move D6" either forward or back (randomize).
Finally Broken vehicles, equivalent to Broken fighters:
  • Mobile - Break for Air (Double): Move 3D6" + any number of pivots (doesn't specify 90° here - oh no what to do).
  • Stationary - Burn Out (Double): Place D3 smoke blasts (5") within 1". -1 modifier to Restart test in the End phase per smoke blast.
Perhaps some things I find less meaningful has some hidden meaning in the official text, but I'm not gonna recite verbatim 2 pages full of rules to give you an impression. More details on RAW can be found for example here:
View attachment 153679

The scenarios are closely related to the boxed content, meaning that some of the scenarios randomize between Pitch Black or not. Please note the mat is double-sided:
View attachment 153707
View attachment 153708

Delaque and other light-flipping gangs would be even more abhorred now :LOL: Would the Core Servitor be able to shut the lights on/off in ash wastes?!?

This is a bit nitpicky, common sense would go a long way in this case. This is a remainder to show that when introducing new stuff (like changing the battlefield type), it won't be perfectly compatible with a lot of old content. It seems like GW make a 'season' based game where the new stuff (ideally) works within its own border, but pay little to no respect to whatever content was released 1 or 2 years ago. Rolling roads, rolling rules!

Note that Aim only works on Fire all, but not Move & shoot , as that is dangerously close to “being intuitive” territory and we can’t have any of that.
Also wtf is that Burn out action, just why?! Can’t wait for van saar hoverstuff to burn out and cough out smoke clouds

Got to add some depth to this, as some of TK's write-up needs a key clarification,.

A "Stationary" vehicle isn't one which isn't moving, but one which has been rendered unable to move by damage or another effect. That burnout action, for example, is when a vehicle crew is broken (ie panicking), attempting to move, but are unable to due to the Stationary condition - it has the effect of making it even harder to start the vehicle again as they harm it in their panic.

The point about the mat - that is one, the introductory, scenario, Dust Bowl Skirmish. Everything else doesn't mention the mat, and use instead the Ash Waste environment rules and suggest bigger fields (4x4, or more clearly 4x6 for rolling road scenarios). It's a nice mat, just too shiny. Nice inclusion (esp. the night side) but of course most gamers will have alternatives.

Finally, JR, grav cutters won't be a vehicle; if they are ever errata'd up, they'll simply grant the Mounted condition to a fighter, but it may be they keep separate. Significantly, rules differentiate between "fighters" (which can gain the mounted condition through wargear), "vehicles" (separate model type) and "models" (both types).
 

Spenetrator

Gang Champion
Honored Tribesman
Apr 2, 2018
498
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York, UK
It’s another step away from abstraction which doesn’t help. We get it GW - you can turn a key and hope, push start, and bump start a car. We didn’t need you to capture all that tediously in the rules.

It’s a bit like the Versatile trait. You can fight from further away because your weapon is long, so here’s a whole new mechanic to capture that etc etc. which works technically, but is fiddly and tedious. When they could just have said long weapons have -1 to-hit from non-versatile reaction attacks.

Over abstraction is bad, over articulation also bad.
One of my key frustrations with this ruleset is that there isn't a vision as to what it is at it's core. A modern streamlined skirmish game or a squad based RPG lite game.

They abstract things which would thematically benefit from complexity, and confuse things which could be simple unnessecarily. Resulting in a game frustratingly neither.

The gangers can't leave their quads/bikes/hoverboards, and can't change weapons but there's 3 actions for a stalled vehicle and a heavy chain cleaver is different to a chain axe.... 😂
 
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JawRippa

Gang Hero
Mar 31, 2017
1,473
2,086
138
Saint-Petersburg, Russia
They abstract things which would thematically benefit from complexity, and confuse things which could be simple unnessecarily. Resulting in a game frustratingly in the middle.
You took the words right out of my mouth. You have to keep track of how fast a mounted rider has travelled at all times, yet all vehicles can ride full ahead only to instantly stop in the next activation. Or even do a literal 360° no scope with Manoeuvre (Simple) + Fire All(Basic). Absolute nonsense.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
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Dec 29, 2017
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Yeah the mounted move tracking is annoying. Also, does it matter if a vehicle moves 1" or 10" before ramming into other vehicles? Looks like it doesn't matter, only the vehicle's move characteristic?