Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware:grumpy grognards)

[breegull]

Given the sorry state of affairs for Necromunda rules/books/encyclopedia sets, I'm actually shocked they're not dragging this out for another series of 6 books.

Dragging things out for 6+ books is still very much on the table, isn't it?

1) Book of the Outlands already had nomad fleas and orlock vehicles (and squat gang missing unique vehicles)
2) escher + goliath

After that I could easily see:
3) cawdor + van saar
4) delaque + the missing squat unique vehicles
5) enforcers + cults
6) scavvies and/or redesigned ratskins, if those are coming.

And of course that's not even counting the ash wastes rulebook that any reasonable person would think would have most/all of the vehicle rules and stats in it, lol.

 

[Ben_S]

It’ll never be complete. They will never compile all this stuff anywhere...

That's fine. The 'don't buy until it's complete' policy still works...

 

[MusingWarboss]

That's fine. The 'don't buy until it's complete' policy still works...

By complete do you mean “they’ve abandoned the project and no longer make any stuff”?

Because it’ll still be a pain to justify what consists of a complete edition given the fluctuating rules. And fans(?) compilations are available now which are better organised.

 

[Basileus]

A base of one-off supplements you could pick and choose to get and play is probably fine.

What they’re actually doing here is releasing a series of expensively disposable books that will be the “thing to play” for a few months and then no-one will ever bother with them again. But you might have to buy them anyway if you want the extra gang fighter rules or vehicles to use anywhere other than in this campaign.


It’ll never be complete. They will never compile all this stuff anywhere - they expect you, us, to buy each book and make a complete library of stuff that'll get played through until the next big release where it becomes old and unplayed.

How are your Turf War campaigns going? Law and Misrule? Maybe??? Most people appear to be dicking around in the Ash Wastes now as it’s the latest big thing. Until the next one when we all get to buy more stuff.

————

More worrying is that this campaign looks like it’s going to be another “moving the timeline along” thing.

Why bother? What’s the need? It just makes it more annoying to play standard games without having to justify why you’ve got anachronistic stuff about.

Is this going to end up in exterminatus and we all end up in Spaaaaaaaaaaace? And all the Escher are dead. But that’s ok they took all the Chems and they’re all undead now. In Spaaaaaaaaace!!! “Movin’ The story along guys!” Buy the new undead Escher kit.

“Whadda you mean you just want to play standard stuff? That’s tough, we’re all brought in with the new stuff so you’ll be totally outmatched.”

I read that with Rich Evans‘ voice in my head

 

[Ben_S]

By complete do you mean “they’ve abandoned the project and no longer make any stuff”?

Just to be clear, no that's not what I meant. I was responding to this comment:

"Just wait, this game will be so great when then the next thing comes out!" is a successful marketing strategy

My point was don't buy an 'incomplete' game now, based on the promise that future additions will fix/improve it. You can wait for the promised next thing, then decide whether to buy in or not based on whether it is actually great now.

So, a 'complete' game can still have scope for supplements, provided that they are additional options.

 

[Ben_S]

From this morning's GW email:

So, the new Warcry starter set is limited then? What does this mean?

That, once stocks run out, there will be no Warcry starter set and you'd have to buy the various components separately? That doesn't seem like a promising way to support the game. I suppose the other option is that Heart of Ghur is like Indomitus and will be replaced by another, smaller (and less good value) set - but I don't see much scope for that here.

 

[ntw3001]

More worrying is that this campaign looks like it’s going to be another “moving the timeline along” thing.

Obsessing over 'moving the story forward' is something I've always hated, in 40k and Necromunda. The story of Necromunda is that there isn't one. It's a setting. You make the stories, that's what the game is. But as soon as some new event appears in a supplement, the internet strokes its collective beard and says 'ah yes, so wise to advance the storyline'. Same with 40k. But it seems like it's part of the successful mainstreaming of the product; it's what the people want, and it doesn't match to my vision any more.

 

[Galtarr]

I think the correct response to that is indeed to wait for the complete game (i.e. with the next thing), rather than buying the 'beta' version in advance...

Not convinced there will be a complete game of the latest iteration. That said as far as I'm concerned we have N19 - GotU plus whichever expansions, you choose.

Or N21 which is House of Gangs, with prospects and UberChamps

Or Ash Wastes which isn't complete till they all have their own vehicles and 'extended' rules...

You just draw your cutoff at start of campaign and freeze rules

One turn off I have of KT despite the relatively tight rules is exactly this rolling release. With bespoke teams outperforming the compendium teams.

At least Warcry 2.0 has just given updated stats for all units free by pdf. So once we have access to rules updates we're good. Hadn't heard about Ghur being limited. Not ideal but they are doing KT style releases so you can just wait to see what the next 2 teams look like.

 

[MedMos]

Whether you're travelling the Ash Wastes or staying in the old west style Underhive, building and painting models is good for you! Go here to vote for the theme in the next installment of yakcomp, and get inspired for your next project. Theme vote closes tomorrow, and then the comp kicks off.

 

[Gunkaiser]

GW doesn't keep starter sets around for most of their ranges, so I think it's to be expected. Still, there will probably be a cheaper starter released eventually that has hardly any terrain in it, if KT 2.0 is any indication.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Let’s just face it - The new rules are just a giant clustertruck of a mess aren’t they, I have noticed though that this opinion used to just be us old grumpy Gronards but it seems to be mainstream now

The new model ranges are nice though, although not all of it is for me - I got the Market, 2 plastic Hive Scum? kits and the Ambots recently, great stuff that I’ll incorporate into my version of the hive, probably with conversions and kit bashing, but still nice kits.

Just take the juicy bits from the rotting corpse that is Newmunda and move on with life, if you’re feeling really adventurous come to http://www.tribemeet.uk/ we’ve 6 tickets left and a guaranteed two rulebooks only* experience!

*That’s if you don’t count the excellent Tribemeet booklet, I’m told people even collect them if they don’t attend it’s that good!

 

[Punktaku]

He’s talking about me.. I have two of them. They ARE fantastic.

 

[almic85]

Let’s just face it - The new rules are just a giant clustertruck of a mess aren’t they, I have noticed though that this opinion used to just be us old grumpy Gronards but it seems to be mainstream now

The new model ranges are nice though, although not all of it is for me - I got the Market, 2 plastic Hive Scum? kits and the Ambots recently, great stuff that I’ll incorporate into my version of the hive, probably with conversions and kit bashing, but still nice kits.

Just take the juicy bits from the rotting corpse that is Newmunda and move on with life, if you’re feeling really adventurous come to http://www.tribemeet.uk/ we’ve 6 tickets left and a guaranteed two rulebooks only* experience!

*That’s if you don’t count the excellent Tribemeet booklet, I’m told people even collect them if they don’t attend it’s that good!

I’m not sure it’s the rules themselves that are causing the fuss, rather it’s the method of release that tends to annoy people.

I certainly think that the new rules campaign systems aren’t as good as the NCE campaign rules, but the game itself plays better in the new version.

The new plastic is certainly nicer than the old metal sculpts as well, it’s just that the style change often isn’t wanted by some people (I do miss the old trench coat Delaque).

 

[Stoof]

This thought struck me today as I was perusing the really-cool-but-not-Necromunda Escher jetbikes.

The new Necromunda is a place where gang fighters can easily acquire anti-gravity technology to strap to a giant jet engine. They can then, without much bother, fit TWO heavy stubbers/grenade launchers/plasma-fricking-cannons to it.

Their mates in other gangs are riding tricked out snowmobiles, surfing the sky on hoverboards, or scooting around with personal jetpacks.

If one of your fighters dies, your gang has access to tech so extreme that you can literally bring them back from the dead to continue the fight - and as an effective fighter, not a shambling animated corpse.

It also has ammo rolls, because, despite all of the above extreme tech, some of which doesn't officially exist and some of which is patently heretical, it's the AMMO supply that's unpredictable and unreliable...

Necromundans are REALLY bad at prioritising.

 

[Malevolent Pink Cat]

This thought struck me today as I was perusing the really-cool-but-not-Necromunda Escher jetbikes.

The new Necromunda is a place where gang fighters can easily acquire anti-gravity technology to strap to a giant jet engine. They can then, without much bother, fit TWO heavy stubbers/grenade launchers/plasma-fricking-cannons to it.

Their mates in other gangs are riding tricked out snowmobiles, surfing the sky on hoverboards, or scooting around with personal jetpacks.

If one of your fighters dies, your gang has access to tech so extreme that you can literally bring them back from the dead to continue the fight - and as an effective fighter, not a shambling animated corpse.

It also has ammo rolls, because, despite all of the above extreme tech, some of which doesn't officially exist and some of which is patently heretical, it's the AMMO supply that's unpredictable and unreliable...

Necromundans are REALLY bad at prioritising.

... And remind me what Necromunda manufactures?

 

[MusingWarboss]

This thought struck me today as I was perusing the really-cool-but-not-Necromunda Escher jetbikes.

The new Necromunda is a place where gang fighters can easily acquire anti-gravity technology to strap to a giant jet engine. They can then, without much bother, fit TWO heavy stubbers/grenade launchers/plasma-fricking-cannons to it.

Their mates in other gangs are riding tricked out snowmobiles, surfing the sky on hoverboards, or scooting around with personal jetpacks.

If one of your fighters dies, your gang has access to tech so extreme that you can literally bring them back from the dead to continue the fight - and as an effective fighter, not a shambling animated corpse.

It also has ammo rolls, because, despite all of the above extreme tech, some of which doesn't officially exist and some of which is patently heretical, it's the AMMO supply that's unpredictable and unreliable...

Necromundans are REALLY bad at prioritising.

We’ve passed the point where Necromunda should be considered a setting of its own, not part of the wider 40k universe.

(I’d say with the “House of” books myself - love to hear your takes on when it jumped its sump shark)

If it has to exist in the same place then either the greater lore is a complete lie or the game system if compared correctly should reflect at least some of the lore!

If the Escher resurrection chems are as good as they seem then most Imperial forces would be scrambling for doses to keep their most important commanders in the fight!

Theres a sense that myself and a mate have that new Necromunda is essentially becoming a 21st Century Rogue Trader. A lot of the ideas and tech seems the same. Plus I think the statlines are an obvious statement of intent, as they copied them straight from the 1987 tome.

That was the era of imperial jetbikes, hover surfboards and Rhinos for everyone. An era where guns were common across different forces. Space Marines with a shuriken catapult, Space Marines as police frisking punks. Ornithopters. Beastmen as Guard units. Biker Squats. Penal legions with actual bombs strapped to them. Grox, Ambulls, nasty vegetation. Etc.

Problem is for wider 40k is there’s been an expansion away from those ideals since 1993.

So now we have a weird situation where Horus Heresy evolves up to Necromunda but then sometime later the whole system crumbles to bits. Because Necromunda is supposed to be set in 40k’s past.

So something has to happen to Necromunda, something that makes this stuff go away and it evolves into its 1995 style self.

Perhaps this new cash grab campaign series will lead to a scouring of the planet and hives??

Either way, just take this setting as being NOT in the wider 40k universe or you’ll go mad. The designers clearly don’t seem to think it is.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

This thought struck me today as I was perusing the really-cool-but-not-Necromunda Escher jetbikes.

The new Necromunda is a place where gang fighters can easily acquire anti-gravity technology to strap to a giant jet engine. They can then, without much bother, fit TWO heavy stubbers/grenade launchers/plasma-fricking-cannons to it.

Their mates in other gangs are riding tricked out snowmobiles, surfing the sky on hoverboards, or scooting around with personal jetpacks.

If one of your fighters dies, your gang has access to tech so extreme that you can literally bring them back from the dead to continue the fight - and as an effective fighter, not a shambling animated corpse.

It also has ammo rolls, because, despite all of the above extreme tech, some of which doesn't officially exist and some of which is patently heretical, it's the AMMO supply that's unpredictable and unreliable...

Necromundans are REALLY bad at prioritising.

A good 50% if not more accept this @Stoof now if you really want to send this vocal majority over the edge into something they won’t believe just use wood on your Necromunda models….

 

[Stoof]

I'm coming to terms with it being essentially a different setting in some divergent 40k timeline. It's the only way to think of it these days - you have to ignore established lore, because whoever is planning Necromunda either doesn't know or doesn't care about it.

My post was more about the internal inconsistency of still having ammo rolls in a game where your gangers can buy all this amazing stuff. You can whip up anti-gravity tech like it's nothing but can't provide enough little cylinders that go bang to your fighters? Rare stuff is now an anachronism in the game. As @MusingWarboss says, this probably happened amongst the House Of books.

 

[MusingWarboss]

My post was more about the internal inconsistency of still having ammo rolls in a game where your gangers can buy all this amazing stuff.

The ammo roll is a throwback to when Necromunda was about Gangers scrambling in the dirt for scraps of ancient tech to salvage. It’s probably only still in there because they made a special die for it!

If you remove it from the game it’s essentially just 40k.

If they’d included more classic Ork style “whoops we’ve blown ourself up” madness it would be a lot more in keeping with this stuff being utterly illegal, dangerously bodged rubbish.

Probably quite fun too.

 

[cronevald]

I'd be a lot happier if rare stuff was rare again. Almost every gang can buy suspensors when ever they want. I preferred the version of the setting where finding a suit of flak armour felt like a minor accomplishment. (And a disappointment because it was still crappy flak armour.)