Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware: old men shouting at clouds)
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The Necromunda Facebook page states, quote:
"Fighting in the underhive is sooo last year. 2022 sees the fighting on Necromunda take to the Ash Wastes."
They can and can say that for as long as they want, but that's not the case for me. The Necromunda Underhive is and remains the real Necromunda for me. I'm also not worried about my Underhive and Zone Mortalis terrain. I always wanted to build a big wall with a gate anyway and the Ash Waste starts in front of it.
On the other hand, Ash Wastes is an interesting setting and makes me think among others of Borderlands, Mad Max or Dune. At the same time, Necromunda: Ash Wastes speaks to the terrain builder in me. - How could I not find that good and interesting too? - I'm just worried about my wallet and maybe more upset about something else than I can be happy about a good game.
But as the saying goes: wait and drink tea and see what is presented to us. In any case, Necromunda seems to be a success and doing well, otherwise it would certainly not be continued as big. And I think there's one thing you can actually rely on: That's the community! So far, ideas have always come from the community and fans on how to do something better or differently. I'd also like to take this opportunity to once again thank everyone who has contributed for help and to fan and community versions.
I also envisioned the re-release of Necromunda a bit differently and often wished for less divisions, repetition, duplication, mistakes and complexity. Also a more decent and customer-friendly handling of my money! Then I would have had to be less angry sometimes. But in the end it is also up to us whether and what we make of it ;-)
"Fighting in the underhive is sooo last year. 2022 sees the fighting on Necromunda take to the Ash Wastes."
They can and can say that for as long as they want, but that's not the case for me. The Necromunda Underhive is and remains the real Necromunda for me. I'm also not worried about my Underhive and Zone Mortalis terrain. I always wanted to build a big wall with a gate anyway and the Ash Waste starts in front of it.
On the other hand, Ash Wastes is an interesting setting and makes me think among others of Borderlands, Mad Max or Dune. At the same time, Necromunda: Ash Wastes speaks to the terrain builder in me. - How could I not find that good and interesting too? - I'm just worried about my wallet and maybe more upset about something else than I can be happy about a good game.
But as the saying goes: wait and drink tea and see what is presented to us. In any case, Necromunda seems to be a success and doing well, otherwise it would certainly not be continued as big. And I think there's one thing you can actually rely on: That's the community! So far, ideas have always come from the community and fans on how to do something better or differently. I'd also like to take this opportunity to once again thank everyone who has contributed for help and to fan and community versions.
I also envisioned the re-release of Necromunda a bit differently and often wished for less divisions, repetition, duplication, mistakes and complexity. Also a more decent and customer-friendly handling of my money! Then I would have had to be less angry sometimes. But in the end it is also up to us whether and what we make of it ;-)
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With some reflection I've realized that if this were billed as a distinct, separate game using the same core rules and principles instead of the bright, dusty future of Necromunda I'd barely have an issue. I know this is silly because at the end of the day it's purely psychological and just a marketing distinction. I think a clear, bold line between the two would let people continue with the underhive version of Necromunda without feeling like they were missing out on important game developments if they don't buy in to Ash Wastes. I know this is probably the opposite of what GW wants, but as a customer who's already spent a lot of money on this product line I'm definitely feeling abused at this point.
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I think it's just to be accepted that any "living" game becomes "living" only via releases. Anyone who wants a one-stop-shop is better of with buing a good boardgame and enjoying that "as-is" for several years. And there are several very good options for that by now, even with good minis to paint up if so desired.
That notwithstanding, the right size, frequency and pricetag of those releases in a living game are to be discussed, but deeply personal. (And the "right dose" will shift for everyone as soon as a new job/a new child/a new degree to finish/etc. comes up.)
I personally dropped out of the "WH Underworlds" (as in Shadespire etc.) game I really like because of too much "life" in it. Not because of the money, or because the game getting "worse". But just because it went too fast for me to keep up with for a "sidegame".
By now we don't know anything about how "Ashwastes" and "Underhive" will correspond, ruleswise. Who knows, maybe there will be a clear distinction between "Zone Mortalis", "Mechanicum" and "Desert" games once more.
If I don't like the desert, I can keep my ashgates shut and live my miserable life in the dome. If I end up liking the desert, I will live my miserable life there, sometimes.
Hello gents,
Of course, there will be a boxed set and a crapload of books...! 21st century GW's business is to sell overpriced model kits, not designing fun and interesting games. As long as you feed the delusional idea that it might be the case, you expose yourself to sumping again, and again, and again...
Regarding the Ash Wastes, at least this expansion trend is consistent with the setting and lore. The outdoor dimension, open air combat, use of vehicles or beasts, factions not seen in the underhive, all that is a legit cause to develop new products and make it another game in itself.
Their marketing target is clearly aimed toward people who haven't played N-wathever yet because they are not interested with the underhive setting and lore and who will invest a lot in this Westerner SciFi Mad Max + having even the most experienced N player being in need of a new complete tabletop with new kits to build and paint to play this extension if they want to keep with the "vibe" and not "be left aside" by the game developments.
New players buying terrain, kits and books + old players building terrain and buying kits and books = $$$BINGO$$$
Their business is so predictable that it is boring. When I joined theses excellent boards 2 years ago I was pondering the possibility to go N17+. After seeing the utter mess of the new rules system and buying/reading and quickly reselling 2 House Of books, I decided not to care with these mediocre products anymore.
I just realized that they are trying to play on the sensible string of Necromunda nostalgia, but this is a swindle, a Sith mind trick. This game developed since N17 is not Necromunda anymore, they are just sticking to the name for marketing purpose.
I personnaly decided not to care about this racket operation aimed at my youth memories and to stick to N95 and I'm very happy ever since. I've got 200+ metal models to chase through online auctions, 6 Gang Wars and 12 Necromunda magazines to expand the original setting beyond the original rulebooks and that, with this forum hobbiying events, will be plenty enough to satisfy my hobby needs for the rest of my life.
And for the Ash Wastes, my main complaint is not regarding the business model once again used in front of our frustrated eyes, but about the creative trend from the Studio that is showed through the trailer we've seen. This childish cartoon about a train attack in the desert is appaling. I sincerely hope there will be much more than that because the Ash Wastes are such a huge potential in terms of new factions and social codes, religions, trading networks, warfare operations, clothing ways, agricultural and cattle raising possibilities that it will really be a huge shame for the Studio to jsut make it a Fast & Furious skirmish game in the desert.
And the Ash Wastes are not a dune desert !! They are layers upon layers of refuses accumulated through the ages, making it a grey coloured toxic environment populated by nomads.
This is what we should see :
And not some FREAKIN' COWBOYS robbing a train in a sand desert you cheap Studio monkeys.
Of course, there will be a boxed set and a crapload of books...! 21st century GW's business is to sell overpriced model kits, not designing fun and interesting games. As long as you feed the delusional idea that it might be the case, you expose yourself to sumping again, and again, and again...
Regarding the Ash Wastes, at least this expansion trend is consistent with the setting and lore. The outdoor dimension, open air combat, use of vehicles or beasts, factions not seen in the underhive, all that is a legit cause to develop new products and make it another game in itself.
Their marketing target is clearly aimed toward people who haven't played N-wathever yet because they are not interested with the underhive setting and lore and who will invest a lot in this Westerner SciFi Mad Max + having even the most experienced N player being in need of a new complete tabletop with new kits to build and paint to play this extension if they want to keep with the "vibe" and not "be left aside" by the game developments.
New players buying terrain, kits and books + old players building terrain and buying kits and books = $$$BINGO$$$
Their business is so predictable that it is boring. When I joined theses excellent boards 2 years ago I was pondering the possibility to go N17+. After seeing the utter mess of the new rules system and buying/reading and quickly reselling 2 House Of books, I decided not to care with these mediocre products anymore.
I just realized that they are trying to play on the sensible string of Necromunda nostalgia, but this is a swindle, a Sith mind trick. This game developed since N17 is not Necromunda anymore, they are just sticking to the name for marketing purpose.
I personnaly decided not to care about this racket operation aimed at my youth memories and to stick to N95 and I'm very happy ever since. I've got 200+ metal models to chase through online auctions, 6 Gang Wars and 12 Necromunda magazines to expand the original setting beyond the original rulebooks and that, with this forum hobbiying events, will be plenty enough to satisfy my hobby needs for the rest of my life.
And for the Ash Wastes, my main complaint is not regarding the business model once again used in front of our frustrated eyes, but about the creative trend from the Studio that is showed through the trailer we've seen. This childish cartoon about a train attack in the desert is appaling. I sincerely hope there will be much more than that because the Ash Wastes are such a huge potential in terms of new factions and social codes, religions, trading networks, warfare operations, clothing ways, agricultural and cattle raising possibilities that it will really be a huge shame for the Studio to jsut make it a Fast & Furious skirmish game in the desert.
And the Ash Wastes are not a dune desert !! They are layers upon layers of refuses accumulated through the ages, making it a grey coloured toxic environment populated by nomads.
This is what we should see :
And not some FREAKIN' COWBOYS robbing a train in a sand desert you cheap Studio monkeys.
Very sober, yet gloomy, sumping @Pierric. At least until the last sentence. 
I agree, it does seem we live in the FOMO, nostalgia, endless dlc era. If gw makes a good ash waste nomads gang and a generic kitbashable vehicle kit, and I can get my hands on them at a reasonable price, I'll be seriously tempted. But that's a lot of if's.
I agree, it does seem we live in the FOMO, nostalgia, endless dlc era. If gw makes a good ash waste nomads gang and a generic kitbashable vehicle kit, and I can get my hands on them at a reasonable price, I'll be seriously tempted. But that's a lot of if's.
You hit that nail true and square!!
That resonates with me. I think my initial allergic reaction to this release is based massively on GWs previous abusive (and therefore expensive) practices. In fact I mentioned it briefly in an earlier post. I can see from where I’m sitting a book case with a load of ‘dead’ rulebooks from the last decade which have been superseded sometimes within the space of a year or so. Some books have been superseded multiple times over too!
Books are books but I think the idea of completely retiring the underhive (thanks FW/SG marketing and Andy) and having to park all that scenery I’ve only just got round to nearly finishing was a bit triggering.
If this was “Ash Wastes: The Game” it wouldn’t be bad at all, as I said before the setting is fair enough, but it’d be clearly separated as something else. Even if they did do compatibility lists for the gangs of that setting for Necromunda - essentially what the GSC and CC got.
The suggestion, by their own marketing team, that it’s the next evolution of Necromunda, that game has moved on and all that went before is junk now is teeth-grindingly annoying. Especially as it’s off the back of the pandemic which means gaming as been limited for the last 2 years. (2 out of the 5 N17+ has been around)
Right, time for a Valium on the rocks and if anyone needs me I’ll be in the corner hugging some rulebooks from 30 years ago.
GW is not interested in a stable ruleset - a stable ruleset does not generate constant sales. They'd much prefer their clients chasing the idea of what an ideal Necromunda is (but never quite getting there). I've been burned out on Necromunda releases ever since Book of Ruin, because after Corpse Grinders it became apparent that we are not getting a much needed core rule rewamp.
If we want a decent ruleset which respects players, the setting and tries to keep things balanced and interesting, we have to make it ourselves and stop hoping that GW will deliver, because it is not their end goal. And yeah, I'm talking about the community edition for modern Necromunda.
If we want a decent ruleset which respects players, the setting and tries to keep things balanced and interesting, we have to make it ourselves and stop hoping that GW will deliver, because it is not their end goal. And yeah, I'm talking about the community edition for modern Necromunda.
Same here. Literally just sold all mine off in the last 2 weeks. There's just too much to keep up with.
I think if I didn't have (far too many) other games and interests to take care of, that intensity would be welcome. Like the more invested Magic players enjoy the 2 or 3 or 4 new sets coming each year.
But I am spread too thin as it is.
However, I didn't sell stuff, because it's still a very nice boxed board game to play occasionally and a good thing to throw at people who I know will enjoy the hobby, but who do not yet themselves know they like Miniatures.
I saw a Book of the Sump on social media recently, looks really good. Was anyone here attached to that fan project?
Oh, it will be...
I was, hrosshvalur_lunde, and glad you like the book of the sump
There will be new weapons and equipment, that is guaranteed! But it might be on par with versatile 1", plasma nade or the legendary neural flayer 
I would like to thank the GW and their ferocious DLC printing attitude, because they've actually relit my motivation and gave me the energy to finish the draft for the next document of YCE. Hopefully now we can begin the playtesting and see if the project sinks or swims.
At least books are easier to store than shrink wrapped cardboard boxes...
I kind of am getting the vibes this wasteland expansion will be too mad max/borderlands, I hope it's not too much of a rip off. The environment should indeed be more more toxic and inhospitable, shouldn't be like arrakis either. It should definitely be grey and bleak, not like a yellow desert or something.
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Dune will surely be a big spur on this development… funnily enough two of my gaming pals went to see it not too long ago and immediately started press ganging us all into an ash wastes NCE campaign which we started a few days before the announcement!
While I would say it is the best adaptation, I wish they'd taken the time and made it a trilogy. Some plot lines were very rushed.
I still like the old sci fi channel version myself. This latest version was very impressive visually but the pacing of the movie was terrible (Very drawn out at the beginning and rushed at the end). There was also far too much time given over to arty farty dream sequences, which seemed to be essentially the same shot of Chani over and over again. That time could have easily been given over to developing some of the other plot lines or just making the end sequence with the Fremen feel less rushed. The characterisation of Paul was good and the action sequences were excellent and I'm still looking forward to the next part despite the issues.
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