Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware: old men shouting at clouds)

A very popular term these days, typically used as a question: "Is it dead?". My impression is that most people prefer a "living" game above all else. For me, too much uncontrolled life is worse than death. Whether a game is alive or dead is often times irrelevant, what matters if people play it.
Exactly! Life comes from your gaming community, not endless "support".
 
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See, I got back into Necromunda shortly before the 2017 relaunch because I was becoming disillusioned with mainstream 40k's evolution, the Primaris/Belisarius Cawl rewrite of history, the galaxy tearing fully in half, Guilliman, Gods throwing other smaller Gods at eachother etc., and was nostalgic for Necromunda's world of malnourished scumbags fighting for scraps and survival in sewers.. Imagine my delight at the Aranthus Succession narrative where all the established social structure, divides and dynamics of my beloved Necromunda are in disarray and there's some sort of immortal Man of Iron/Necron Overlord/Ultron bastard looking to take back Araneus from the Imperium..
I guess I just want post-apocalyptic, not currently-always-escalating-OMGLOL-Level9000-APOCALYPTIC!!!TM
 
Exactly! Life comes from your gaming community, not endless "support".

True... the community has kept ORB Necromunda alive for nearly 30 years and continues to do so to this day. I've seen "house rules" for Skaven and Lizardmen in Necromunda. I've seen expanded rules for Wyrds and rules for Scummer gangs and different types of Hire Guns. I've even contributed to this (Little known fact: I'm actually the guy who originally created the "Ratskin Savage").

However, keeping it "alive" as a product does require support and, as it seems most people agree, there really wasn't any way to do that (at least not that would have been financially worthwhile) without doing what is currently happening to Newcromunda: flooding it with excessive rules and narrative that is rapidly turning it into a completely different game.

Anyways... I seem to be preaching to the choir so I will return you to your regularly scheduled sumpiness.
 
I don't disagree, @sykoholic. One way to keep it alive without grinding it to death with additional content, would be encouraging stores and clubs to hold events. Slowing down releases a bit and letting people get immersed in your world with help of said stores and clubs could prolong life and expand your customer base? But they don't really do the store thing anymore, instead it seems there is a focus on bleeding the existing customer base dry... Or maybe I'm just old and tired.
 
...Or maybe I'm just old and tired.


Being old and tired is all part of being a "grumpy grognard". 😜

The point I'm trying to make is that to keep ORB Necromunda alive as a product would have required GW to produce additional content. Maybe greater minds than mine can think of what such content might have been but I, myself, cannot. An "Outlanders 2" maybe. A "Sump Sea" expansion? A boxed set (cardboard terrain included) detailing Dry Falls? Would any of these have been viable products that would have generated enough profit to have made producing them worth the cost and bother? Apparently GW didn't think so. Now it seems they have the complete opposite point-of-view and, as you said, are grinding it to death (perhaps literally) with additional content.
 
The original point of the skirmish games was to be an introduction, a way of getting people interested without having to commit to a whole army. That entire idea goes out the window if it becomes just as much of a commitment as the main line games.
Maybe greater minds than mine can think of what such content might have been but I, myself, cannot.
While I wouldn't consider myself a greater mind or be able to speak to their profit from such enterprises, I can think of a few things I would have bought. Actual Juves, Arbites and Enforcers, Civilians, Guilders, Multi part plastics, A bigger selection of beasts, A few generic vehicles.

Personally I'd have liked a guide to the rest of the planet, including new houses in different hives because I hate the idea that the main six exist everywhere. Perhaps an advanced campaign book depending on if its contents were properly playtestested. I separated these as they are a bit more ymmv.
 
WarCom article today.

"Necromunda is on the brink of disaster. Here's how it got there."
And endless stream of books which will be outdated within 3 years max (1 year min).

Enjoy your subscription to Necromunda the Collectable Book Game.

So with all this heresy and chaos, are we finally going to get the official Necromunda exterminatus? At this point, I hope so - that way the survivors can finally skirmish as poorly armed gangs, picking through the remnants of collapsed domes and abandoned, forgotten sectors of massive hive cities... sort of like the game was meant to be.
Dude, you’re forgetting the *big list* from a few years ago!!



We’ve had the Sump Seas now… well a cheap PDF add on. Who knows what the polar caps will offer!!! (Or cares really).

However… the Eye of Selene beckons…

Necromunda in Spaaaaaaaaace!!! How do they get there? Why?

Probably because they blow up the planet.

So… expect the game to get shelved after that.

Then… Welcome Mordheim 2026 AKA M26.
 
Kill Team is getting the support that Necromunda really needed. We didn’t need three volumes of universe altering campaign (anyone playing that going back to stock Necromunda after?? I’d assume so, rendering it pointless).

What we needed were these cool themed environments with a few minis and scenery and rules that are designed for that area.

They already started like that with Zone Mortalis and Sector Mechanicus but then weirdly mushed them together. Ash Wastes is a bigger environment but with access to generic vehicles that would be a smoother transition.

But kill team gets these “Kill Zone” kits for all of six months and then ditches them.
 
Polar Scrap Spoils:
Nice crossover of Frostgrave and Necromunda.

The Eye of Selene:
So basically Stargrave?
No no no, those are actual games. With rules and everything.
These will be a half-thought through Apocrypha PDF add ons at their cheapest or another three hardback book campaign and their most expensive all using the Core rules from Necromunda irrespective of how appropriate that is.

Just depends on how much effort they’re willing to put in.
 
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I never was intrigued by Kill Team. The first incarnation came up during 4th 40K inside the core rulebook. Pick a few models and come up with a scenario. It had a couple of pages dedicated to guards, barbed wire, trash mobs and villain characters. Essentially 40K light and it was good enough for this purpose. Then they needed to bloat this into an entire new specialist game called Armageddon Shadow War and it died faster than a fruit fly.
 
The original point of the skirmish games was to be an introduction, a way of getting people interested without having to commit to a whole army. That entire idea goes out the window if it becomes just as much of a commitment as the main line games.

If that is truly the case, something like Kill Team would have been better. Necromunda introduced players to the rules and game mechanics but not really the universe of the main line game, that being 40K. Kill Team introduces players to rules, game mechanics, and the unviverse. If the whole idea is entice players to play the 40K, that certainly explains why Kill Team gets a great deal more quality support.

While I wouldn't consider myself a greater mind or be able to speak to their profit from such enterprises, I can think of a few things I would have bought. Actual Juves, Arbites and Enforcers, Civilians, Guilders, Multi part plastics, A bigger selection of beasts, A few generic vehicles.

ORB had Juves so I'm not sure what you mean by "actual juves". It also had Arbites but I believe they came later in the "Battles in the Underhive" book. The box set of figures included a cyborg dog.

Personally I'd have liked a guide to the rest of the planet, including new houses in different hives because I hate the idea that the main six exist everywhere. Perhaps an advanced campaign book depending on if its contents were properly playtestested. I separated these as they are a bit more ymmv.

I was never a fan of leaving Hive Primus but yeah... I hated the whole "six all-powerful houses" as well. Why not have some lesser/minor houses? If 40K society is supposed to be similar to medieval society then there should be dozens or even hundreds of "smaller" houses. Many would be aligned or allied with the greater houses or the guilds but there would still be some that were "independent". Or.... rather than just Spyrers with their advanced "hunting rigs" representing the nobility, re-introduce the Hive Brats from Confrontation... gangs of bored rich kids down in the Underhive raising hell.

The problem I see with all of this is game mechanics. In ORB, what made each gang different in-game? The Skill Lists they had access to. There were 7 Skill Lists. Each house essentially specialized in one of those Lists. The only way to keep new gangs from being too similar to the original gangs would be to introduce new Skill Lists (what these would be, I have no idea)... but then the original gangs would need to be changed so that they had access to the new Skill Lists as well.

Essentially, new content can't be introduced without changing the game, as proven by Newcromunda.

The Eye of Selene:
So basically Stargrave?

...or Space Hulk.
 
ORB had Juves so I'm not sure what you mean by "actual juves". It also had Arbites but I believe they came later in the "Battles in the Underhive" book. The box set of figures included a cyborg dog.
Models for young gang members, Juve being short for juvenile. The Arbites had rules in BitU but the models you're thinking of came later in the 2nd edition when they were replaced by Enforcers.
The problem I see with all of this is game mechanics. In ORB, what made each gang different in-game? The Skill Lists they had access to. There were 7 Skill Lists. Each house essentially specialized in one of those Lists. The only way to keep new gangs from being too similar to the original gangs would be to introduce new Skill Lists (what these would be, I have no idea)... but then the original gangs would need to be changed so that they had access to the new Skill Lists as well.

Essentially, new content can't be introduced without changing the game, as proven by Newcromunda.
Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant a purely fluff book, light on detail so it would have been more for inspiration than a rigid expansion.
 
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I think Necromunda has been bogged down by the sheer number of rules and cards more than anything else, slower released, better thought out, self contained campaign packs would have been the way to go, something akin to what they did with Dark Uprising which I think was a genuinely good release.

The "Necromunda as a library" experience is hugely off-putting and the mini-codexes have been bad for the game overall.

I think the best release they could have done would have been a generic "clan" list, with some optional rule bolt ons that players could choose to represent minor houses. Combine that with a better thought-through outcast list and you'd have had a really solid platform for people to get imaginative with the setting, make their own minor house gangs if they didn't want to play the big 6 and would have given the community something to keep alive.

But GW seems to be anti-creativity these days
..
 
Do they even do “how to make terrain” articles anymore? (Not counting “how to assemble our kits” types)
 
But GW seems to be anti-creativity these days
..


Creativity went out the window at the end of Kirby's run as CEO, certainly in 2014/15 when GW's new breed of bean counters/churners had a hissy fit over IP, squatted WFB, and renamed 99.9% of everything in 40k. If it isn't GW or it's "creative" it doesn't make GW PLC £/$ and the shareholders don't get their divvy, and we can't have that.

Seems to be a problem when a company like GW gets as big as they are. I think an appropriate analogy is a snake eating it's own tail, or a match using up a limited supply of O2...
 
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The Arbites had rules in BitU but the models you're thinking of came later in the 2nd edition when they were replaced by Enforcers.

These are the ones I'm thinking of and they came out in the early 2000's.

Arbites-Minis.jpg


You say "Enforcers" and I think "Palanite Enforcers" so that's probably where my confusion is stemming from.
 
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GW hypocrisy rears it's head again in the new Harbinger of Decay model shown on WarCom today.

Really.. Frazetta's estate should send a C&D to GW over that model. It SO reeks of being a Deathdealer rip-off.

Couldn't you guys do something original?

That was a rhetorical question, we know you can't.

<mumbles incoherently while wandering back to the depths of the Sump>
 
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