Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware: old men shouting at clouds)

[spafe]

Not saying the price isnt high, but I dont think it is above the 30k pricing range (its closest comparison).

Also, any idea when element games last had the single bret pegasus knight kit for sale? Its listed as out of stock, priced at £12. now, If I that was last available in 2018 (honestly no idea but I suspect it was earlier that was discontinued), the that would mean with the FLGS discount, it would be £44.76 for 3 of them in todays money (according to the Bank of England inflation calculator). GW is selling the pack of 3 for £37.50.

I've used that as my example because honestly, it was the first one I could find any old pricing for.

I'm sure the TK skellies dont hold up well from their 2002 prices or whatever, but personally I quite like the old brettonians, and I think they hold up pretty well style/sculpt wise.

It's not cheap, but personally the only thing thats really shocked me on prices is how much they want for the dice and the poster. The rest seem... alright. Dont get me wrong, I'll be using 3rd party stuff for some things still, and mostly buying from online/local retailers for discounts, but I wouldnt say its a bad launch of stuff so far. And while I may be a 'moron', I'm not on facebook, so take that!

 

[Troubled Child]

Also, any idea when element games last had the single bret pegasus knight kit for sale?

They are really bad at keeping their website in order, I've had multiple orders cancelled because they said something was in stock or arriving soon but were mistaken.

 

[spafe]

They are really bad at keeping their website in order, I've had multiple orders cancelled because they said something was in stock or arriving soon but were mistaken.

okay, I wasnt suggesting to order from them, its more this is the price it was.... when it was last on sale... back however many yeras ago

 

[Mr. M]

And therein lies the problem. There seems to be a core of very affluent customers who think nothing of paying stupid money, and GW know this. And so the rest of are steadily being pushed out of the hobby.

I definitely agree, however I hope the result is not pushing people out of the hobby, but pushing them off the "GW plantation." Lots of excellent, more reasonably-priced wargaming options these days. Hmm... this is getting a little too sunny for the sump, so, um... "GW delenda est."

 

[Mr. M]

As others have said, the cost of this new Old World game is going to be very steep indeed. Perhaps this is an unintentional bit of "nostalgia"? WFB 4th/5th edition was my first foray into wargaming, and I loved the lore, the old WD battle reports, and the very characterful miniatures. After spending several years of my adolescence and much lawn-mowing money, I abandoned my unfinished Orc & Goblin army because the cost in cash & time was just too high. I felt like I had been burned and, though I still love those old Herohammer editions, I have always nursed a bit of a grudge against GW for making an extremely fun and captivating game with fantastic lore, only to make it pretty much unplayable because of the cost to complete an army. Two of my gaming buddies from that time had a similar experience with their Dwarf & High Elf armies - both abandoned wargaming entirely, and headed down the RPG route instead.

My prediction for Old World is that GW will hock this new game hard, and end up with a bunch of customers with empty wallets and massive piles of grey plastic they never get finished. Then, once the whales are beached (so to speak), GW will release some new version of Warhammer Skirmish or (heaven forbid) Mordheim; with the "selling point" of only requiring smaller, more manageable numbers of Old World figures.

 

[MusingWarboss]

And while I may be a 'moron', I'm not on facebook, so take that!

I was perhaps a little harsh using that term. Though there is quite often a lot of chatter on Facebook which is supportive of higher prices and critical of anyone questioning that.

I wonder… do they think by having higher prices it makes it a more exclusive hobby??

Maybe this akin to the days when children and teens were moaned about in Gaming shops (coz it’s for the biker metalheads obviously) or the ForgeWorld bans as people brought in their big expensive resin kits (that shops couldn’t sell)?

Is it a new form of elitism?

Regardless, there’s always been a supply of Fantasy miniatures that could be used for WFB or OW. Whether or not you like those alternate sculpts is a personal thing.

 

[Raven Morpheus]

I was perhaps a little harsh using that term. Though there is quite often a lot of chatter on Facebook which is supportive of higher prices and critical of anyone questioning that.

I wonder… do they think by having higher prices it makes it a more exclusive hobby??

Maybe this akin to the days when children and teens were moaned about in Gaming shops (coz it’s for the biker metalheads obviously) or the ForgeWorld bans as people brought in their big expensive resin kits (that shops couldn’t sell)?

Is it a new form of elitism?

That's very much what it is. I got told, on another forum, that if you can't spend £200 a month on GW stuff don't bother with "the hobby". There are people who see GW as the Ferrari of miniatures companies and they seem to have a comparable sense of entitlement.

It's not a new form of elitism, it's been there for decades - as a teen kid coming from a relatively low paid family, gaming with comfortably well off kids, I always had the feeling there was some snobbery going on. That didn't change when I left home and was putting my 100+ figure Dark Angels army together on a shoestring budget...

...in recent years though GW have tried to ferment that elitism imho

 

[MusingWarboss]

I know there’s definitely people out there who won’t use non-GW models precisely because they’re not GW. It’s like a fashion brand thing.

They don’t want to be seen using the cheaper alternative, even if it’s just as good if not better. This is where 3D printing comes in - though that gets pretty elitist too, with regards to printer type, manufacturer and quality.

I guess this is why GW keep producing these excessively large statuettes now (they’re really not gaming pieces).

But for wargames though… particularly ones that requires oodles of models (as each seems to represent one hit) it just gets silly - practically as they’re making them in plastic, using machines designed for mass production. This is not a limited run resin product or even metal anymore.

Historical offer better pricing because there’s more competition between manufacturers.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Usually paying for something makes you appreciate it more than if it was given for free. It can be snobbery sure. I used to relish every single GW mini when I was younger, simply for the scarcity due to their expensiveness. However I also relished the free ones. Today, I prefer fewer models and increasingly turn to 3rd party, but also want quality. And ironically end up spending much more money there than if I bought the GW minis.

 

[Mr. M]

Historical offer better pricing because there’s more competition between manufacturers.

I recently picked up a set of Victrix Vikings (60 minis for ~$50), and a year or so ago got a box of the Wargames Atlantic Conquistadors. The quality of both sets was excellent. Lots of easy customization, easy assembly, excellent detail. Given how good the quality of each of these products was, it really puts GW to shame on pricing - they no longer do anything "special" in terms of plastic miniatures, if they ever did. Sure, GW has great lore & backstory, but given how expansive it is pretty much any miniatures can fit into it... As for the internet attention-seekers who seemingly revel (wallow?) in GW's high prices, I wouldn't be surprised if half of them were paid shills, have narcissitic personality disorder, will end up in bankruptcy, or all of the above. Their "hobby" is shopping, not modelling or gaming.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Got some spacenam minis from wargames atlantic. The squad box had decent price, but I wanted all the characters and other bits too and that got expensive fast!

 

[Troubled Child]

Maybe this akin to the days when children and teens were moaned about in Gaming shops (coz it’s for the biker metalheads obviously)

Ironically that was a big part of me getting into the hobby as a child, I needed somewhere to hang out in town on a Saturday that wasn't playing pop music. I was the sensible kid they'd sell knives to, my friends mum gave the staff a note saying they could beat him if he misbehaved. It was a different time.

I'm not on FB so can't speak to the goings on there but I have known several people who spent more on the hobby than their budget really allowed but they considered it a part of their identity, for lack of a better term.

I got told, on another forum, that if you can't spend £200 a month on GW stuff don't bother with "the hobby".

Not once, in nearly 30 years of playing with toy soldiers, have I ever spent £200 in a single month. Granted £200 won't buy you what it once did but even so, they must just be filling up storage with unopened boxes because there is no way they are getting that all built and painted without some time dilation tech.

 

[TopsyKretts]

I've spent more than 200£ in s single day on a single mini FW super heavy vehicle... never since though.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

I've done a couple of Kickstarters for battletech those have exceeded the £200 mark in one month, but never for games workshop.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I’ve never understood the idea of being „pushed out of the hobby“ by the prices going up. Outside of being able to play at a GW store (and that perhaps being the only option) is there any advantage or benefit to using only GW miniatures for their games?

In my experience with Warhammer fantasy, the regiment boxes became so expensive, and you got much fewer figures for your money. Therefore, from my own financial standpoint it made sense to try other ways to build that 40 man Death Star.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

Well the 40 man death star is what killed the game really ...

 

[Raven Morpheus]

I’ve never understood the idea of being „pushed out of the hobby“ by the prices going up. Outside of being able to play at a GW store (and that perhaps being the only option) is there any advantage or benefit to using only GW miniatures for their games?

If you don't have GW miniatures you're pretty much sol for tournament play, painting competitions, etc. A lot of players won't play you at clubs either if internet chat is to be believed.

Also, GW is generally referred to as "the hobby" because they're the major player, of course you're not being pushed out of THE hobby.

Not once, in nearly 30 years of playing with toy soldiers, have I ever spent £200 in a single month. Granted £200 won't buy you what it once did but even so, they must just be filling up storage with unopened boxes because there is no way they are getting that all built and painted without some time dilation tech.

Yeah, I think it was meant more as a measure of someone's affluence than literally spending that much each month. I've frequented a few forums related to the GW part of the hobby, and every time there's a discussion about prices you get the same "we don't care, we're wealthy enough to not have to consider prices, you should go play something else, leave us rich folks to it" crowd piling on.

 

[TopsyKretts]

I've played against star wars drones as tau in tournament But I remember that was frowned upon. Stretching it too far? On the other hand, my gaming group has always been blessed by independent gaming club which stays on neutral ground in public properties like youth/cultural center or library. So the experience has always been rule of cool. Can't imagine anyone complaining about 3rd party replacements and some long dead games like Blood Bowl and Necromunda survived solely on it.

 

[Borvin]

Granted £200 won't buy you what it once did but even so, they must just be filling up storage with unopened boxes because there is no way they are getting that all built and painted without some time dilation tech.

Honestly, blessed be those people. From time to time they want to reduce their pile of shame and resell unopened or at least complete Kits for -25/33/50% on marketplace.
Second hand GW market is the only GW market I care about, as the new stuff is priced mostly absolutely shameless imho.

 

[SAWAL2]

GW will release some new version of Warhammer Skirmish or (heaven forbid) Mordheim;

Mordheim!

Can't believe they haven't thought about a new version - Or is it because it's too closely related to existing GW skirmish-wise games like AOS/Warcry? (Not that I've ever played either mind)


...The comet is coming!!