spafe
Executive Officer in charge of Hats
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Necromunda Custodian
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Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware: old men shouting at clouds)
- Thread starter spafe
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I’ve played the starter scenario, and one tunnel fight. And I got to say, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed both games.
First of all one has to denude oneself of the idea that the original was the pinnacle of perfectly written rules, or that this new edition is an unplayable mess, as spending too long on these sorts of threads or the Facebook page can convince one of. The game is actually a lot of fun! I used a Goliath ganger to look through an ammo crate, only to reveal it as a frag trap! I then decided to pick it up and drag it over to the enemy hiding behind a bulkhead door to use as a booby trap. Needless to say, the plan backfired tremendously and blew my guy up! It was hilarious, and something I’ve never ever had the opportunity to do in the many, many, games of Necromunda I’ve played. I can’t wait to play my next game!
Do my mod sensors detect the beginnings of a potential site-rule breaching share of links to 3rd party, copyright breaching, GW wrath inducing, unauthorised anthologies? Hmmm?
If so, take it to the PM gentlemen
Clearly you are mistaken. I am obviously trying to ask for narcotics.
Also, an obligatory grumble about the weapons upgrades being unavailable.
Not sure why this wasn't same day release.
Not sure why this wasn't same day release.
If the original were perfect, then there would never have been (need for) the NCE. I doubt many of us think it was perfect, even if we may perhaps have a rose-tinted view.
As for the new edition, I like the sound of some bits. I'm sure it's a perfectly playable game. But it's £75(?) plus however many Gang War supplements. I recently picked up several Osprey rule sets (ok, sure, just books - no models) for less than that combined. I doubt they're perfect either, but they're probably put together with as much apparent care.
Like many here, what really draws me to Necromunda is some combination of fluff and models. But I can use the models along with some other rule set to represent gang wars in hive primus.
This is pretty spot on for me. But I’ll add to it with another rare glimmer of positivity in the sump
.I was pretty depressed when N17 was announced as I was quite happy with NCE, and I don’t really care for new shiny stuff - either games or models. I saw it as a cynical way to reclaim a fallow IP to prevent third parties using it, needlessly risking a split in the community which would annihilate the critical mass it had managed to build up since they last dumped it.
Unusually for me though, I was quite pleasantly surprised
.Sure, the rules are messy and have some very noticeable flaws. And the tile thing, while infinitely better than I was expecting, is still no substitute for 3d terrain (and their promethium stuff is just expensive and too sparse for munda anyway, so I’m actually grateful for the tiles).
But overall it’s actually a nice game! Ok, it’s not at the cutting edge of games design for the 21st century but I’m not bothered about that as long as it plays well. And it does.
Furthermore, and this was the biggest surprise, the depth of the campaign system and gang differentiation (which, again, I was a bit wary of) makes the original look like a tacked on afterthought. Campaigns actually now have purpose, development, and resolution... followed by continuation and revival. From a fluff based perspective, where gangs go from street corner punks to sector spanning legends, that’s a proper service.
And I actually like the drip feed release model, cynical as it might be (and I’m actually inclined to think it’s just disorganised as much as cynical), because for the first time since the early 00’s I’m actually eager to see new releases which are actually a creative
reimagining of the existing IP - rather than say “Marines, again, but BIGGER, or painted gold for that not-40K-fantasy-cloud-world (don’t ask just buy them ok?!)”.
Try having a 7-strong Goliath gang reduced to 4 models due to recovery from the previous game, then play against a 12-strong Escher gang.
It doesn't end well.
Specifically a hail of plasma fire from all the plasma pistols putting most of everyone down, and all the remaining models being able to run over if they're far away and stand around constantly firing at the remaining Goliaths like a firing squad until the Goliath player has a chance to voluntarily rout.
Having a large gang size is definitely a considerable boon; the one time said 7-man Goliath gang won was against a 5-man Goliath gang, and the extra guys helped remove opponents to keep/improve the advantage.
Having a small number of tooled up guys means very little when you can get to have so many extra shots with a huge gang.
Just noticed something, Ammo-Jack comes with a combat shot gun with salvo and scatter ammo. Anyone know how scatter works with a combat shotgun?
It's probably meant to say Shredder (the template one). If not, I'd use the normal Scatter trait/stats.
Reading the many inconsistencies that crop up in the various threads I’m going to have another mull... I wonder if they’re working on two different versions of the game, the skirmish and the 3D?
Just they’ve merged them badly. I only mention it because it keeps getting brought up; some cards are better for 2D skirmish, some for 3D. Mass of flamers in upgrade kits, better for skirmish than 3D and so on.
Bounty hunters! GW2 vs GW4.
Which wouldn’t matter if they specified what type of game things were intended for (when they publish it).
It really does feel like they've mushed up two rulesets at times.
Just they’ve merged them badly. I only mention it because it keeps getting brought up; some cards are better for 2D skirmish, some for 3D. Mass of flamers in upgrade kits, better for skirmish than 3D and so on.
Bounty hunters! GW2 vs GW4.
Which wouldn’t matter if they specified what type of game things were intended for (when they publish it).
It really does feel like they've mushed up two rulesets at times.
spafe
Executive Officer in charge of Hats
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
While I think you are right (Deleted member 9968) , this actually annoys me almost as much a their release strat with hte multiple books. I want one game, done well, personally I want the campaign system one, but would settle for a fantastic narrative version. The one off skirmish to me just isnt what necromunda is, that's kill team or when they could have made their shadow wars release. hey ho, thats my sump-ness for a while.
In terms of balance/2d v 3d. You can play any version (skirmish, campaign or narrative) on either, and I really like the idea of mixing it up and having some games on both, that way the challenges facing the players is mixed up, there isnt a cookie cutter 'these are always the best cards/gang/tactic' to aim towards, and it makes it interesting. I also like what they've tried to do with different ways to sort LoS etc, although there are some mistakes in their wordings (because of so many books, lack of prrof readers/playtesting/ whatever, not important), which means it still needs alitte refining
In terms of balance/2d v 3d. You can play any version (skirmish, campaign or narrative) on either, and I really like the idea of mixing it up and having some games on both, that way the challenges facing the players is mixed up, there isnt a cookie cutter 'these are always the best cards/gang/tactic' to aim towards, and it makes it interesting. I also like what they've tried to do with different ways to sort LoS etc, although there are some mistakes in their wordings (because of so many books, lack of prrof readers/playtesting/ whatever, not important), which means it still needs alitte refining
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Sorry, I can't let that fly, especially in the Sump... I'll give you one book worth of average-to-good campaign stuff, and I'm feeling generous. GW2 in particular has about 5 pages worth of campaign stuff (Orlock rules and Hanger-ons) and GW1 campaign content is not what I would define as 'awesome' (what with the horribly buggy reputation system, and generally being inferior to the original system on almost every point.) I can't speak about GW3, but it seems to mostly be praised for righting the wrongs of the previous books and 'expanding' (completing) the trading post.
The two different lists from Underhive and GW1 for Escher and Goliath do not qualify as skirmish and campaign lists to me. They are just two lists with randomly different prices for things. To do it right, they'd only need one list, with some items (stuff with long term consequences like ammo with the Limited trait and Juves) having different prices for skirmish (that could also be used for gang rating purpose in campaign)
3D rules could also have used a few more pages to explain how Blast and the likes are supposed to be ported (yeah, GW1 was a tad disappointing) but are otherwise okish. Other than that, the only real problem I have with the 2D/3D thingy is that a few skills (Clamber comes to mind) don't do anything in ZM. They should have provided replacement 2D skills for those that want to run a 2D campaign.
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Gotta agree with thorgor that I don’t see any support (or really mention) of skirmish past the Underhive rulebook.
Everything else is really just an expansion of the campaign game, which skirmish should just be anyway.
2d/3d is a completely separate thing to campaign and skirmish.
What would be better with the skills would be if they all made sure they had a bonus for 2d and 3d. It doesn’t have to even be something big, or even across both types of game, it just has to be something. Like clamber could do with allowing gangers to reroll falling into a pit in 2d, or catfall could make any ganger taken OOA by a pit only suffer am OOA result on the injury roll.
Everything else is really just an expansion of the campaign game, which skirmish should just be anyway.
2d/3d is a completely separate thing to campaign and skirmish.
What would be better with the skills would be if they all made sure they had a bonus for 2d and 3d. It doesn’t have to even be something big, or even across both types of game, it just has to be something. Like clamber could do with allowing gangers to reroll falling into a pit in 2d, or catfall could make any ganger taken OOA by a pit only suffer am OOA result on the injury roll.
While everyone is complaining about the direction of the Cawdor based on the latest drawing (which I quite like) let me be the first to complain LOUDLY about current direction of Delaque based on the concept art so far.
This (to me) is a steaming pile of poop. Why the hell are my sneaky Delaques looking like offcast admech experiments.
I don’t want some spooked up eyed powered gang. I want sneaky, sneaky lasgun you in the back.
This (to me) is a steaming pile of poop. Why the hell are my sneaky Delaques looking like offcast admech experiments.
I don’t want some spooked up eyed powered gang. I want sneaky, sneaky lasgun you in the back.
Are they so different from the original design?
They did change the coat design (in a way, I like that the new one cover their mouth, it fits with the whole spy thing, but it may be less iconic) and added the techno wrist guard but other than that aren't they the same old cyberpunk-spy baldies than before?
They did change the coat design (in a way, I like that the new one cover their mouth, it fits with the whole spy thing, but it may be less iconic) and added the techno wrist guard but other than that aren't they the same old cyberpunk-spy baldies than before?
I was thinking the same.
In some ways the old delaque were slightly odd in their muscularity.
Though I realise all gangers are probably slightly tougher than the normal person, I think the models in their range were either as beefed up as or close to the Goliaths. Their heavies were the biggest guys in the range IIRC - better if they’re more wispy and slight.
In some ways the old delaque were slightly odd in their muscularity.
Though I realise all gangers are probably slightly tougher than the normal person, I think the models in their range were either as beefed up as or close to the Goliaths. Their heavies were the biggest guys in the range IIRC - better if they’re more wispy and slight.
Hmmm, kinda like it myself. Not entirely sold on covering the mouth, but not appalled either. Better than what I've seen of Cawdor so far. It's Delaque I've been waiting for since N17 was announced.
Going to echo @Stoof almost to the word.
I really like it. Sinister looking, cleaner lookmrhan the old ones but that's in keeping with the tone of N17 compared to oldmunda.
I'm not sold on the mouth thingie but could be faction defining as much as the trenchcoat or could just be their version of respiratory.
Looking forward to seeing some more of them.
I really like it. Sinister looking, cleaner lookmrhan the old ones but that's in keeping with the tone of N17 compared to oldmunda.
I'm not sold on the mouth thingie but could be faction defining as much as the trenchcoat or could just be their version of respiratory.
Looking forward to seeing some more of them.
Just realised that's no way to talk in this thread.. should of focused on not being sure about the covered mouth!
Apologies!
Apologies!
