Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware: old men shouting at clouds)

[Stoof]

I think the idea and world of the game is possibly more important than the actual game itself. How many of us have models for games we rarely play? I have loads. For multiple systems. I have models for games I "play" that I haven't actually played for years. There are people with huge libraries of BL books whose lore knowledge is amazing who have never played in their lives.

And I have models for games I have no intention of ever playing, just because I liked the models.

I *could* use the for a game, and that feels a bit better than buying a useless plastic ornament.

Are more people like me than people who actually play the game? I feel there could be.

I don't necessarily like that GW says they're more into models than games (look what they did to my baby Necromunda) but I can see where they are coming from when they say they're a miniatures company first.

 

[MusingWarboss]

The background is hugely important as to why anyone buys any of this stuff. Even historical miniatures are based entirely upon the background context as for why the miniatures exist.
Of course, there’s plenty of Lord of the Rings style sculptures out there and busts and other fantasy and science-fiction things as well, but I suspect they have a lot less sales without an IP actively driving them.

@Stoof loads of people are in the same position, that they have collected a whole ton of miniatures, however, those miniatures are collected with the idea that they could be used in a game (even if you don’t play it).
Unless you’re going to build a diorama there really is no reason to start buying 40 or more of the same type of infantry, except of course to use them in the game setting.

There are markets of course for high-quality model kits which you get from Tamiya, or even old Airfix models for example. In those cases though I suspect that though they are profitable it’s not going to be generating as much profit as a company like Games Workshop simply because they’re selling Model kits to modellers for (effectively) dioramas and other purposes rather than requiring those modellers to buy five or 10 of the same kit.
Also, there’s no real IP to speak of. You’re just using existing things with a historical context whether it’s aeroplanes, tanks, cars or trains.

Not sure what people do with their Gundam models though?

So, yes, I can understand why games workshop put an emphasis on their models (as they make a heck of a lot of them and clearly that’s where they make the bulk of their profit) however, the reason they sell those models in such quantities is entirely down to their IP and how they use that to shift them.

 

[cronevald]

Not sure what people do with their Gundam models though?

We hoard them like any other model, most likely build them as that's the fun part, and then tell ourselves we are going to fully paint, weather, and decal them before posing them once to sit on a shelf collecting dust for years.

At least that's what I do.

 

[Ben_S]

I think the idea and world of the game is possibly more important than the actual game itself. .... I have models for games I "play" that I haven't actually played for years.

This is so true. There are some games I'd like to play and other games that I have no real interest in playing. For instance, I was in GW earlier today talking to the manager about the new skaven. I told him that I have no real interest in AoS, but might use them in Mordheim. To be honest though, the chances of me playing Mordheim aren't much higher than the chances of playing AoS...

 

[Tiny]

I recently bought the Mortarion model for 40k despite having zero interest in ever playing 40k again. It’s just such a cool model. Most of my traitor guard was purchased with zero intention of playing with it. Who actually needs an entire Leman russ company?

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Asmodee forced Xwing from FFG to AMG. AMG then forced through a rules change which people dubbed 2.5 as opposed to FFGs Xwing 2.0.

Big changes included dumbing down squad building from 200pt fine control to crude 20pt plus ships having upgrade pts . Also changed bumping rules (ship contact). Also stopped supporting FFG app meaning the game became dependent on 3rd party squad building app given refusal to put points on cards. Changes actually made some cards& abilities invalid. But much like GW alot of the issue was in how they did it in terms of community communication. I think they also pissed off the tournament scene by not providing any support during the transition.

Beyond that all I know is my local active group folded with the organisers switching to Kill team.

For SW Armada they obviously knew the change from FFG to AMG was coming and Armada being effectly shelved was on the cards. But FFG had just completed work on the first wave of fleets for the Clone Wars, so they released it anyway because ££££…..this has left two whole fleets incomplete, with key words on cards for special rules, ships, officers etc etc that have never been released in the obviously planned following waves. Then AMG sacked all of the original FFG rules writers and bodged out a few FAQ type card things that are shite.

To say those of us who pre ordered the new fleets are pissed off is a slight understatement. I’ve got shelves of these things (£20+ per ship!) gathering dust because its effectively killed the game.

PS. I see theyve just cancelled the Worlds (world championships) for cheaper regional things with some dreadfully worded press statement, which seems to be the final straw for a lot of the FFG/AMG community.

 

[MusingWarboss]

We hoard them like any other model, most likely build them as that's the fun part, and then tell ourselves we are going to fully paint, weather, and decal them before posing them once to sit on ahelf collecting dust for years.

At least that's what I do.

I have one Gundam from a long time back - “Endless Waltz” it said on the box.

It was fun to build but it seems to be a cross between a model kit and an action figure. It currently stands on top of a book case collecting dust.

I brought a couple of Anime resin kits years ago because I liked those series but have never actually assembled the figures!!

I think it’s your intention to do something with these things that is the prime motivator for purchase, rather than the objects themselves. That intention is often borne from what IP spawned them.

 

[Punktaku]

That’s more my motivation for collecting possible terrain bits…

 

[almic85]

I’ve just slowed down here mostly because I’ve been playing and organising bloodbowl tournaments more in the last few years and don’t have time to try and run a Necromunda campaign alongside all of that AND real life stuff.

I’ve got no care for or issue with female angry frogs.

And I would say that for GW the IP (as in the lore) is their most important asset. Without the story and setting all my little gangers/players/ armies are just sad little lumps of badly painted plastic/resin/metal.

 

[Wasteland]

I recently bought the Mortarion model for 40k despite having zero interest in ever playing 40k again. It’s just such a cool model. Most of my traitor guard was purchased with zero intention of playing with it. Who actually needs an entire Leman russ company?

There is a very salty guy from Australia on Youtube who is an expert on 30K HH. I think everybody knows from the description who this is. In most instances he has a point but the conclusions he draws are sometimes utterly wrong. No one who is in his right mind should deploy ten Leman Russes in a 30K/40K game.

And the reason is pretty simple: The game becomes a parking lot with no room to maneuver as there is also terrain on the board. But these people are so stubborn that they don´t get it. Tank companies have a place in Legions Imperialis and not in 30K/40K. Apart from that buying ten Russes is bloody expensive.

 

[MedMos]

Apart from that buying ten Russes is bloody expensive.

You could always just papercraft them...
*ducks for cover*

 

[Tiny]

I got most of them second hand and refurbished them. I always wanted a 40k scale Leman Russ company as a kid. Still not got around to painting them all but I have them all in my possession for when inspiration strikes.

 

[Raven Morpheus]

Putting aside the obvious analogy, about something not belonging in 40k, tank companies in 40k is exactly how I see "the guard". Having read "back in the day" Gaunt's Ghosts, and several other of the novels from the 90s back then, Imperial Guard in 40k just don't reflect their portrayal in the lore. They've just never seemed to fit unless you run a massive points battle, in which you can take tank companies, and it's got even worse since GW squatted all "the flavour" and just try to flog us Cadian infantry, a handful of Catachans, and a handful of vehicles.

Maybe 40k should just be limited to the "elite spearhead" factions like Space Marines and GW could bring back the 40k era of Epic for everything else, now that they've rebooted the original Space Marine/Adeprus Titanicus...

Could it be said that one is getting old when games that were around when you were starting out in the hobby, some 30 or so years ago, get a reboot?

 

[Troubled Child]

I do know someone with a tank company but he is indeed not right in the head to the point that I sometimes act as his carer.

 

[Wasteland]

Putting aside the obvious analogy, about something not belonging in 40k, tank companies in 40k is exactly how I see "the guard". Having read "back in the day" Gaunt's Ghosts, and several other of the novels from the 90s back then, Imperial Guard in 40k just don't reflect their portrayal in the lore. They've just never seemed to fit unless you run a massive points battle, in which you can take tank companies, and it's got even worse since GW squatted all "the flavour" and just try to flog us Cadian infantry, a handful of Catachans, and a handful of vehicles.

Maybe 40k should just be limited to the "elite spearhead" factions like Space Marines and GW could bring back the 40k era of Epic for everything else, now that they've rebooted the original Space Marine/Adeprus Titanicus...

Could it be said that one is getting old when games that were around when you were starting out in the hobby, some 30 or so years ago, get a reboot?

I have a Catachan Jungle fighter army. Only two sentinels in the whole force and the rest is infantry. You just don´t waltz down the rain forest with a baneblade when you try to sneak up on someone.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Maybe 40k should just be limited to the "elite spearhead" factions like Space Marines and GW could bring back the 40k era of Epic for everything else, now that they've rebooted the original Space Marine/Adeprus Titanicus...

First couple of versions of 40k were all about platoon level games, with vehicles being a big threat.

Not sure when that got messed up, though I suspect 3rd Edition and its derivatives.

Epic was absolutely the scale for massive vehicle fights.

I remember seeing some 40K Apocalypse battle reports a few years ago and they were hilarious - for all the wrong reasons. Mostly that the games tables looked like a large car park.

 

[Raven Morpheus]

First couple of versions of 40k were all about platoon level games, with vehicles being a big threat.

Not sure when that got messed up, though I suspect 3rd Edition and its derivatives.

Epic was absolutely the scale for massive vehicle fights.

I remember seeing some 40K Apocalypse battle reports a few years ago and they were hilarious - for all the wrong reasons. Mostly that the games tables looked like a large car park.

Yeah it was third edition. Filmdeg Miniatures recently put up an interview with Rick Priestley about 40k's history. Basically, as we all know, Rogue Trader was more an RPG than tabletop wargame (hearing RP talk about it, it sounds a lot weirder than I remember!), 2nd edition was where 1500 pts back then is more like 1000 pts now, a more skirmish focused game, and 3rd was where they decided they needed to shift more, more, more. It took 6 years for 4th to emerge but that's where the rot really set in...

Imagine having 6 years these days to enjoy building an army before it mostly gets squatted and you're "encouraged" to start again...

I collected my (poorly painted) Dark Angels army (100 infantry, all the characters, 5 rhino, a razorback, a land raider, 2 deathwing squads) during that 6 years. I couldn't do that these days, despite having a bit more disposable income...

I can't even reasonably add to my pile o'shame of GW figures for use in older GW games because GW keep squatting figures I want and don't replace them for a year or more, if ever!

 

[MusingWarboss]

Imagine having 6 years these days to enjoy building an army before it mostly gets squatted and you're "encouraged" to start again...

That’s what shocked sense into me with 6th. No sooner had it arrived it left!

Never did get to play a game of it.

Now I refuse to buy into new 40k - it’s not worth it. Better to stick to an older obsolete edition that won’t change. The Oldhammer movement has enabled that to be a proper thing recently.

 

[Raven Morpheus]

Now I refuse to buy into new 40k - it’s not worth it. Better to stick to an older obsolete edition that won’t change. The Oldhammer movement has enabled that to be a proper thing recently.

Amen to that. It can get a little on the silly expense side though, as I've found with recent purchases...

 

[Ben_S]

That’s what shocked sense into me with 6th. No sooner had it arrived it left!

Never did get to play a game of it.

Similar here. I played 2nd ed but never got into 3rd and drifted out of the hobby with uni and stuff. I came back towards the end of 5th and started collecting models, but didn't buy the game because it was widely known that it was coming to the end of its cycle.

I bought Dark Vengeance (6th ed), with the intention of getting back into the game, but - still building my army - never got a game before that edition was obsolete. And that was the end of my interest in returning to 40k, at least in modern editions.

I could be tempted to play 2nd again, but I'm not sure how well it's aged.