Necromunda The Sump: General hobby venting thread (Beware: old men shouting at clouds)

[Narflung]

I regret not purchasing Satyr Art Studios' Keeper of Secrets, though I have managed to get his Bloodthirster second hand.

I regret diving in all the way with the Infinity Defiance Kickstarter; I'm not too upset that the game itself needs polish, rather, I already knew I hate cleaning and assembling their metal models, so the game remains mostly unplayed because I haven't gotten around to all the necessary assembly.

And yeah, First Born marines is such a silly name. I understand why you'd need to distinguish between the two in novel form, but nah. Also, I'd be more supportive of the introduction of Primaris Marines if they were a regression in capability and technology. That would make so much more sense in the lore if they were more of a compromise of quality for quantity.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

I call it 'annoyance at Games Wokshop for it's stupid marketing strategy instead of having stuff I want to buy at all times, like they used to'.

Doesn't really flow off the tongue though.

 

[Luke82]

I recently prevented some potential AAGWFISMSIOHSIWTBAAT,LTUT by snaffling up the last boxes of Ork Boyz in my local area, I got 3 boxes in the end including two from my local GW Warhammer shop for full retail price, breaking all of my personal values in what still felt like an act of defiance somehow.

I like the look of the new Orks but they’ll no doubt be embigulated and look daft next to my current boys, so I NEEDED to get the venerable boys kit while I still could.

 

[CaptainDangerous]

That is some time travelling terminator logic right there!
So you’re saying, if I buy them all now, then I pre-emptively avoid the FOMO in around 20 years!? Hmm…


@Narflung
You’ve just opened my eyes to a parallel universe that makes so much sense and would have been brilliant! Something along the lines of the geneseed becoming too unstable, so lowering the quality of marines, but overhauling their numbers becomes more viable?

I’m also just reminded that I almost made a marine scout force, but they did away with the kit I liked just before I commited! So would that be RIMO (relieved I’m missing out?)

 

[MusingWarboss]

I’m also just reminded that I almost made a marine scout force, but they did away with the kit I liked just before I commited! So would that be RIMO (relieved I’m missing out?)

I’ve had a few project ideas over the decades they’ve had the models pulled before I could get around to getting them.

Whole editions of 40k have come and gone before I’ve started some!!

I think it’s just a fact of life when dealing with GW.

 

[Tiny]

I'm still reaping the rewards of FOMO for hoarding Dark Vengence cultists back in 2012. They really are super versatile for a monopose kit. Still annoyed they never made a modular kit in the same style. Newer cultists are crap by comparison.

 

[Beebopalulla]

I agree. I collected them back then, and even bought a few more small boxes.

One miniature always left a big impression on me: a man holding an autogun, wearing a hooded duster and a metallic mask. It turns out he looks great in an almost monochrome style. Apart from the weapon, the mask, and a few details, I painted one almost entirely in leather.

What makes them great, in my opinion, is that they use a “less is more” approach, unlike more recent cultists. I prefer a sober, understated style to something more exuberant, which is why I don’t usually play Chaos.

 

[Tiny]

One miniature always left a big impression on me: a man holding an autogun, wearing a hooded duster and a metallic mask.

I am currently in the process of converting that exact guy into a Redemptionist.

I love that they just look like a mob of armed civilians, like actual downtrodden factory workers and dregs of society, as opposed to some larpers in fancy dress like the new ones.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

I’ve had a few project ideas over the decades they’ve had the models pulled before I could get around to getting them.

Whole editions of 40k have come and gone before I’ve started some!!

I think it’s just a fact of life when dealing with GW.

The worst for me are the partial units. I've got so many units of older models for my Orcs and Goblins, Dwarves and High Elves that just aren't quite big enough to deploy, but the new models just don't quite fit with the older ones so can't really be combined. It never seemed urgent to finish the units as they were always available via mail order and there was always something else to buy, until they pulled the entire back catalogue.

So pretty please re-release the 6th edition Phoenix Guard, 4th edition Savage Orcs, Night Goblins and Dwarves.

 

[Beebopalulla]

I am currently in the process of converting that exact guy into a Redemptionist.

I love that they just look like a mob of armed civilians, like actual downtrodden factory workers and dregs of society, as opposed to some larpers in fancy dress like the new ones.

Yes that group of miniatures from that box doesn't need much effort to convert.

 

[RixxyAGoGo]

I work at a game store, and recently we have had a fair number of younger folks (10ish?) want to engage with 40K. To that end, I've been running a kid's warhammer thing once a week - they seem to have a blast with it (although the sportsmanship side of things might need a little work...)

Doing this, however, makes it really clear that there isn't a great 'onboarding' process for getting into the game/s these days.

My first set was Battle for Maccrage and it was digestible! It was thematic! It was super sweet! It came with some sweet terrain I used at every opportunity! It went very step-by-step to introduce ideas and solidify them.

The 10th Starter Set (and, I am fearful, the 11th as well) asked a lot all at once by comparison - here is how fighting works. Here is how shooting works. Play a game. It didn't even discuss command points, which are ultimately very integral parts of the game that you can't quite do without. It doesn't give a good 'next steps' without seemingly expecting some kind of outside guidance.

I know people who are interested can dig in and engage with the hobby at their own pace, but it feels like there is a hurdle standing here that GW (and many others) sort of shrug at rather than addressing.

tl;dr: why do i have to be the guy doing all the teaching aaaaaaaah

 

[Mr. M]

I don't understand why GW doesn't keep Space Hulk constantly in print. It has a proven record of being the "gateway game" to other, more extensive and complicated GW games. Several of my friends and I all made the move from RPGs to wargames precisely because of Space Hulk - and we were all about 10 or 11 when we first played it. If the original version of Space Hulk is now too far removed from the general rules concepts of 40k, GW could easily sell updated Space Hulk versions that mirror the rules revisions they decide are important enough to showcase in a simplified tabletop experience. It really checks all the boxes for a product to lead new people into tabletop gaming: everything needed to play is in the box (including terrain), the rules are fairly simple, the gameplay is engaging and exciting, there are choices but they are limited so there isn't "analysis paralysis," it is amenable to expansions (good both for players looking for more, and GW looking for things to sell), and it provides a fine vehicle for introducing the lore of the 40k universe. It's simply far easier to get a game of Space Hulk on the table then, for example, Kill Team or the other games that are supposedly "starter 40k options."

 

[ntw3001]

I work at a game store, and recently we have had a fair number of younger folks (10ish?) want to engage with 40K. To that end, I've been running a kid's warhammer thing once a week - they seem to have a blast with it (although the sportsmanship side of things might need a little work...)

Doing this, however, makes it really clear that there isn't a great 'onboarding' process for getting into the game/s these days.

My first set was Battle for Maccrage and it was digestible! It was thematic! It was super sweet! It came with some sweet terrain I used at every opportunity! It went very step-by-step to introduce ideas and solidify them.

The 10th Starter Set (and, I am fearful, the 11th as well) asked a lot all at once by comparison - here is how fighting works. Here is how shooting works. Play a game. It didn't even discuss command points, which are ultimately very integral parts of the game that you can't quite do without. It doesn't give a good 'next steps' without seemingly expecting some kind of outside guidance.

I know people who are interested can dig in and engage with the hobby at their own pace, but it feels like there is a hurdle standing here that GW (and many others) sort of shrug at rather than addressing.

tl;dr: why do i have to be the guy doing all the teaching aaaaaaaah

GW have been releasing poor starter sets for a long time now. They seem to be built primarily to appeal to veterans, with beginners grudgingly included. But they'll tend to pack the box with odd, gimmicky new factions – corpse grinders vs enforcers wasn't great, and Blood Bowl 2020's imperial nobility vs black orcs was an absolute nightmare. Imagine trying to figure out the basics of, say, pushbacks when you're doing it with stand firm, fend and grab on different pieces across the board.

The current box teams are a bit better, and I do think that the new 'secure the ball' action probably comes from recognising a new player problem (new players hate failing to pick up the ball, and one of the box teams is one of the worst teams at doing that).

So there's some consideration given, I think. But I guess they don't want a big starter box on the shelves that only appeals to a tiny portion of customers. The days of pulling in a new cohort of young kids with brightly-coloured boxes are ober, now maybe they're seeing adults with disposable income recriiting their friends.

 

[Tiny]

With Blood Bowl I genuinely don't understand what was wrong with the tried and tested Orcs vs Humans starter set.

Two reasonably similar, relatively balanced teams with enough flavour to differentiate them. No weird and wonderful skills to learn, just two common staples in Block and Dodge. Easy to add a big guy to each team for more flavour once you've learned the rules. That said, I don't know if they've changed that with the newest editions as I haven't kept up.

 

[Fold]

Presumably it wouldn’t sell nearly as well because it isn’t new teams.

 

[Tiny]

The previous (2016?) edition had the exact same teams as the one before it and sold pretty well.

 

[Punktaku]

“If it ain’t broke don’t fix it” vs. “this could make it even better”

 

[ntw3001]

With Blood Bowl I genuinely don't understand what was wrong with the tried and tested Orcs vs Humans starter set.

Two reasonably similar, relatively balanced teams with enough flavour to differentiate them. No weird and wonderful skills to learn, just two common staples in Block and Dodge. Easy to add a big guy to each team for more flavour once you've learned the rules. That said, I don't know if they've changed that with the newest editions as I haven't kept up.

They'd have been the obvious best two starter teams (not so good after the roster shake-up in 2025), but people already had them. Not such an issue for the 2016 edition, which was looking to rebuild the audience and bring in a new cohort. Why they made the two new teams in 2020 so gimmicky and weird with an awkward web of explicity clashing skills, no idea (well, some idea, but it's not very constructive to get into). And then throwing in a couple of big guys and stars for value – which is nice, but not a newbie-focused decision. Blorc players trying to work through Throw Team Mate when they haven't even handled the rules for throwing the ball

 

[Beebopalulla]

You have what team in mind? I enjoyed the new teams like the one mixing human, elves, dwarves...

 

[Wasteland]

I don't understand why GW doesn't keep Space Hulk constantly in print. It has a proven record of being the "gateway game" to other, more extensive and complicated GW games. Several of my friends and I all made the move from RPGs to wargames precisely because of Space Hulk - and we were all about 10 or 11 when we first played it. If the original version of Space Hulk is now too far removed from the general rules concepts of 40k, GW could easily sell updated Space Hulk versions that mirror the rules revisions they decide are important enough to showcase in a simplified tabletop experience. It really checks all the boxes for a product to lead new people into tabletop gaming: everything needed to play is in the box (including terrain), the rules are fairly simple, the gameplay is engaging and exciting, there are choices but they are limited so there isn't "analysis paralysis," it is amenable to expansions (good both for players looking for more, and GW looking for things to sell), and it provides a fine vehicle for introducing the lore of the 40k universe. It's simply far easier to get a game of Space Hulk on the table then, for example, Kill Team or the other games that are supposedly "starter 40k options."

Space Hulk is a complete game. As such it might be considered by business people to be woefully under-monetized and as a consequence not worth to commit shelf space too. Making it generally unavailable reinforces the FOMO mindset of getting it asap when it launches. So from a cutthroat business viewpoint it makes sense. However from a customer viewpoint it´s horrible practice. It basically says: "Get it early or get lost."