As a kid a bit, did not get it. I probably would now.
Third season - new edition, 2025
- Thread starter Ben_S
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I like the definition of stalling very much. Yes you have some unfortunate consequences of intention, but otherwise those would be misused. It is the only sensible mechanical rule. The intention of stalling is obviously not intended to cover negatraits. Don't expect that to be fixed until at least several FAQs.
Well what's been leaked of the new rulebook (quite a lot at this point) seems pretty good overall. Some changes I actually wanted, some stuff that looks a bit awkward and flow-breaking (why yes I would love to roll an extra little d6 before and after every single action for a 5/6 chance of nothing happening, thank you GW). But overall, not bad!
But the rosters man, the rosters. It looked like it was gonna be bad, but it's worse. Even to the point where they're expanding to four tiers, including a disclaimer that the additional imbalance is completely intentional and exactly what we wanted. And these rosters fellas, these are *bad*. Orcs get decently paid off for what they lose, skaven and Dark Elves get inadequately paid off, humans (already the weakest of the teams losing key positionals) get additional punishment, and the mixed teams just get the buffed positionals with no downside (bar OWA, who also inherit the nerfed human thrower). Not much reason to choose ogres when snotlings now have 4 big guys in addition to swarming and a pile of secret weapons. And amazons, who were already the top team, get straight (minor) buffs. Obviously they have to pretend the failure is intentional, but an intentional failure is still not a success.
But the rosters man, the rosters. It looked like it was gonna be bad, but it's worse. Even to the point where they're expanding to four tiers, including a disclaimer that the additional imbalance is completely intentional and exactly what we wanted. And these rosters fellas, these are *bad*. Orcs get decently paid off for what they lose, skaven and Dark Elves get inadequately paid off, humans (already the weakest of the teams losing key positionals) get additional punishment, and the mixed teams just get the buffed positionals with no downside (bar OWA, who also inherit the nerfed human thrower). Not much reason to choose ogres when snotlings now have 4 big guys in addition to swarming and a pile of secret weapons. And amazons, who were already the top team, get straight (minor) buffs. Obviously they have to pretend the failure is intentional, but an intentional failure is still not a success.
I've seen the rosters, but not really analysed them in depth.
Good to see Orcs lose Animosity, but dropping both Blitzers and Blockers to 0-2 is a big loss. Did they gain much else, besides the team captain?
Skaven were very strong with 0-4 Gutter Runners, so dropping to 0-2 will hurt, but Stab could be useful. And Dark Elf Assassins got better too.
I like most of what GW have tried to do in this edition but, from what I've seen on FB, there's still some typically poor rules writing that will need FAQs pretty soon.
I'd wanted them to clear up confusion between a Block action, a block (which can be part of a Block or Blitz Action), and the skill block.
It seems they have tried to clarify some things by distinguishing between declaring an action and performing an action. So, if you declare a Blitz, it involves performing a block, but doesn't trigger certain effects based on declaration.
So far, so good. But then they say rules triggered by a declaring an action come into play at the point of declaration. So, it seems like you declare a Block, and your brawler skill allows you to re-roll a dice at that point, before you go on to actually perform the block (at which point you roll the dice).
Also, they say a Blitz Action = a Move Action + a Block Action (which is fine) but a Pass Action = a Move Action + a Pass Action, which seems to lead to infinite regress...
I'd wanted them to clear up confusion between a Block action, a block (which can be part of a Block or Blitz Action), and the skill block.
It seems they have tried to clarify some things by distinguishing between declaring an action and performing an action. So, if you declare a Blitz, it involves performing a block, but doesn't trigger certain effects based on declaration.
So far, so good. But then they say rules triggered by a declaring an action come into play at the point of declaration. So, it seems like you declare a Block, and your brawler skill allows you to re-roll a dice at that point, before you go on to actually perform the block (at which point you roll the dice).
Also, they say a Blitz Action = a Move Action + a Block Action (which is fine) but a Pass Action = a Move Action + a Pass Action, which seems to lead to infinite regress...
So Orcs get strength access on linemen, break tackle on blitzers, mighty blow/thick skull/taunt (which forces an opposing blocker to follow up) on big'uns, +1MA on throwers, and devious access on goblins (a new skill table containing fouling skills).
Humans get tackle on the blitzers and +1S (and PA) on the catchers, plus -1PA on throwers and access to fouling skills withdrawn across the board – pretty punishing since the catchers were previously one of the best foulers in the game. They're just bad elves.
Both teams also have the team captain rule, which allows them to nominate a player as captain before each game. That player gets pro for free, must be set up on the board if possible, and while they're on the boardnthe team has a 6+ save against consuming team rerolls. Which is... fine, I guess? I don't care for 'just roll more 1/6 dice before and after everything' as a design convention, but it's a little buff.
Skaven I couldn't find the spoiler for, but they've got stab on the remaining gutter runners and +1MA and strip ball on the blitzers. I don't expect the grunners will be missed quite as much in tournaments, but in league a lot of games will be started with just one. I don't mind it as much because I always found skaven a bit boring due to how easy it is to score with them, but it's not really made up for.
Stab is kind of nothing; GW insist on giving it to players who don't want it. Mechanically it suits a player like a dwarf, who likes making free armour rolls and doesn't mind being left standing next to an opposing player. I thought they'd figured it out when they spoiled hit-and-run on the dark elf assassin, but it turns out that was a one-off. Other stabbers wind up paying for an alternative block action that's rarely useful. The hobgoblin stabbas on the chorf team might see play as ball carriers though, as the regular hobbos lose access to general skills.
Amazons, on the other hand, already at least a top 3 team and probably the #1 team in the game, get... a couple of PA increases, for free. Basically GW's resident amazon player got knocked about a bit and became convinced that human blitzers with tackle were an unstoppable force
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Stab is phenomenal against low AV blodgers. Like wood elf wardancers and catchers. Or other gutter runners. Or Human Catchers. Worth a shot if you can blitz a ball carrier?
Yeah I guess it might be worth a go at cage diving, but you'll generally prefer to use your two MA8 block strip ball pieces for taking on ball carriers. And in any case, you're typically using your blitz (instead of a blitzer or rat ogre) to stand your gutter runner next to a player with higher strength who may or may not also have block. If people weren't doing that with a S3 dark elf assassin who didn't have any other job to do, they'll rarely want to do it with one of their two S2 main scoring pieces.
I'm wondering if stab would play better as just 'you may foul opponents who are standing up'. You get it in addition tonyour blitz, which removes the killer opportunity cost. You can improve it with fouling skills, risk getting sent off (which makes sense). Combined with one of the skills that lets you move after fouling, it might be a bit too strong for getting hits in on ball carriers – but then we're talking about skilled-up players. Say you take sneaky git and hit and run/that one new skill that's the movement half of what sneaky git did pre-nerf – the player is two skills deep and still AV8+ without block. They either stab early and often (and probably leave the field fast), or they save it up for a shot at the ball carrier that's around 40% in the best case scenario. Plus, for skaven and chorfs, the stab player is also set up to be the natural ball carrier, so being sent off is a real risk.
I'm wondering if stab would play better as just 'you may foul opponents who are standing up'. You get it in addition tonyour blitz, which removes the killer opportunity cost. You can improve it with fouling skills, risk getting sent off (which makes sense). Combined with one of the skills that lets you move after fouling, it might be a bit too strong for getting hits in on ball carriers – but then we're talking about skilled-up players. Say you take sneaky git and hit and run/that one new skill that's the movement half of what sneaky git did pre-nerf – the player is two skills deep and still AV8+ without block. They either stab early and often (and probably leave the field fast), or they save it up for a shot at the ball carrier that's around 40% in the best case scenario. Plus, for skaven and chorfs, the stab player is also set up to be the natural ball carrier, so being sent off is a real risk.
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