Update Underhive Tools Development

[Malo]

All data entry has been taken care of by yakkers, so now it’s just a matter of putting the puzzle pieces together and rewriting some components for N17. Thankfully the existing code mostly copies as is so it’s going quite fast so far. The campaign and battle system will be the most complex since that has significant changes. Customization is probably going in today and shouldn’t be difficult.

The gang and garner pic option will be the same as currently implemented. Any pics you have in your albums in the gallery can be used as images in the tools. There will be sets of default images as well since we have a good source of those.

What I need now from folks are ideas on styling and layout. I’m also considering doing a banger card layout for printing using the supplied and some of the community created ones as inspiration. Like what @p0dde did with his cards but in the larger landscape format.

 

[Commissariat]

The old layout was nice, with the addition of a more straight-forward means of converting models to your gang for factions like the Redemptionists. The old way was capture-kill a model and they'd automatically get added to the gang as a living gang member.

Alternatively, a sort of Starcraft:Broodwar Terran or Classic Fallout aesthetic would be cool. A lot of piping and 80s sc-fi.

Maybe an option for Underhive theme (sewer style) and hive city theme?

 

[gleeptoid7]

If you need any help creating graphics for the ganger cards I'm happy to pitch in.

 

[Malo]

Alternatively, a sort of Starcraft:Broodwar Terran or Classic Fallout aesthetic would be cool. A lot of piping and 80s sc-fi.

Maybe an option for Underhive theme (sewer style) and hive city theme?

I'm all for creating some graphical layout instead of more material css-only designs but I'm not very good with designing or sources graphics to do that. I'm a server/database developer who has UI teams at work to do the front-end work Graphical designs are also more difficult for responsiveness which is why most sites nowadays opt for css-focused design.

 

[Commissariat]

I'm all for creating some graphical layout instead of more material css-only designs but I'm not very good with designing or sources graphics to do that. I'm a server/database developer who has UI teams at work to do the front-end work Graphical designs are also more difficult for responsiveness which is why most sites nowadays opt for css-focused design.

That's fair. I've been studying HTML/CSS/Javascript for work, so I'm full aware of the work that goes into this! It is a shame that it won't cut it, even with a localized hub of data to pull from. But, alas it is the case it seems. Might I suggest different themes of ui colour then? Perhaps one for each house gang, one for the ash wastes, and one for the under-hive? I am not confident in my abilities to release something stable for the community myself, yet, but I know that the CSS for it is still basic.

Also, will the release be staggered? Such as, no post/pre-game calculator at first in order to get the gang builder out?

 

[Malo]

Might I suggest different themes of ui colour then? Perhaps one for each house gang, one for the ash wastes, and one for the under-hive?

The new Underhive tools already have their own color scheme with some different graphics as they're separate from the current tools. I don't consider Ash Wastes separate from the Necromunda tools currently as they're added only as an additional gang.

Also, will the release be staggered? Such as, no post/pre-game calculator at first in order to get the gang builder out?

That's a very good question. Yes, the initial release will be limited to gang, campaign and customize tools. Battle tools, including pre/post game will come afterwards as that will require significantly more custom coding from the current tools.

 

[Commissariat]

I meant that their would be subtle faction colour theme options that users could choose from that would be user-sided to change the coloured appearance of their interface. It is less of a core item but a tangential aesthetic idea.

It's good that it will be staggered! My group likes rolling all the post game stuff ourselves, so we don't use the battle tools. Though, on that note, perhaps a version that is a simple click-through prompt+record tool where it retains all the information like a normal Battle Tool but all the information is user-inputted.

 

[Malo]

I meant that their would be subtle faction colour theme options that users could choose from that would be user-sided to change the coloured appearance of their interface. It is less of a core item but a tangential aesthetic idea.

Ah ok, yeah I've considered that before and my new CSS setups in the new site will be much easier to implement for something like that. My initial focus will be a light theme for the whole site though.

Though, on that note, perhaps a version that is a simple click-through prompt+record tool where it retains all the information like a normal Battle Tool but all the information is user-inputted.

Technically the ganger editor is exactly that. But if you're referring to post-battle sequence and adding the actual dice rolls yourself then I'm not sure I'd go to that length. It's an idea and if it's fairly easy to implement I'll consider it

 

[Commissariat]

Technically the ganger editor is exactly that. But if you're referring to post-battle sequence and adding the actual dice rolls yourself then I'm not sure I'd go to that length. It's an idea and if it's fairly easy to implement I'll consider it

The thought is something like the Battle Tool that acts as a recording device for each game, but an option where it is sort of Form-Fillable; if my previous post was unclear. That way there is still a way to remain 100% recorded on Yaktribe without having to use any auto-calculators that players might not want to use.

 

[Thorgor]

@Malo: about the UI, and using the ORB/NCE gang management tools as a base, here are the few changes I would make:

• find a way to better separate XP and Rating from the fighter's profile (could be as simple as using a background color for those fields, or remover them from the array and place them either above or below)
• get rid of the blue! (or let the user select their own color) I know it's subjective, but the association of blue and yellow makes me go . I'd probably go with brown (to be in line with the forum's dark theme, if nothing else)
• in edit mode, display the type, XP and rating of each fighter in the list (there should be enough free space) and highlight the currently selected one
• in edit mode, don't hide the functions behind a button. It feels strange to be able to delete a fighter in one click but to need two to edit their kill count.

And that's about it!

 

[timdp]

Will there be an option or mechanic to build Legacy gangs (including the missing Goliath and Escher versions)?

 

[Malo]

Will there be an option or mechanic to build Legacy gangs (including the missing Goliath and Escher versions)?

There will be the same custom options as the existing tools. Is that what you mean? The ability to create whatever gangs you want?

 

[timdp]

There will be the same custom options as the existing tools. Is that what you mean? The ability to create whatever gangs you want?

Gonna make me articulate it are ya? Not sure I'm awake enough for that...

I am assuming you are going to add the four Legacy gangs that have not been released for the new game yet. What about the Outlanders stuff?

I see three issues: ganger stats and point costs, weapon stats and house weapon lists.

Stats and point costs for all of the Legacy Orlock ganger types are different from the stats leaked from the upcoming Orlock book. Its also possible that some of the upcoming weapon stats will be different from the Legacy weapons (heavy stubber being a likely candidate moving from 1 to two ammo dice).

For weapons its probably easier to just update weapons when new stats come out, and that might also apply for ganger stats and costs. Looks like you have that covered here:

So my plan is that once each of the gangs is available in their official form, the existing gang in the tools will be updated instead of having 2 versions.

House weapon lists are going to be a bit tougher. As we have seen, the House weapon lists for the Golaith, Escher and upcoming Orlocks are very limited, negating the use of many of the of the original minis (unless modified). If we want to continue the use of the old minis, differentiated House (or Legacy) weapon lists will need to coexist with the new House weapon lists.

Would also be nice to have the option to NOT automatically add armor when gang building.

My brain seems to have run out of steam, but this is a start. Penetrating questions will probably help...

 

[Malo]

I am assuming you are going to add the four Legacy gangs that have not been released for the new game yet.

Correct, they're already in.

What about the Outlanders stuff?

Outlanders as a concept doesn't exist in N17 (yet?). The tools are based on official material available and anything beyond that will be considered custom as it will be made up by the community.

Looks like you have that covered here:

Yeah, once the new stats are available, existing entries will be updated to the official Orlock rules.

House weapon lists are going to be a bit tougher. As we have seen, the House weapon lists for the Golaith, Escher and upcoming Orlocks are very limited, negating the use of many of the of the original minis (unless modified). If we want to continue the use of the old minis, differentiated House (or Legacy) weapon lists will need to coexist with the new House weapon lists.

There's nothing stopping users from turning off equipment restriction and adding anything they want from the database, which currently will be all weapons and wargear from the books and the Gangs of Legacy PDF.

Would also be nice to have the option to NOT automatically add armor when gang building.

Wouldn't it be much better to simply remove the auto-added armor from the ganger once created? The armor only comes with the official built-in gangers in the tools so if you really want ganger types that don't come with armor, simply create them in the custom tools.

 

[Malo]

get rid of the blue! (or let the user select their own color) I know it's subjective, but the association of blue and yellow makes me go . I'd probably go with brown (to be in line with the forum's dark theme, if nothing else)

Blue is gone in Underhive. Anyone else not like the blue? Suggestions for a new color in HEX for the classic tools?

in edit mode, display the type, XP and rating of each fighter in the list (there should be enough free space) and highlight the currently selected one

You're referring to the ganger selector on the left in desktop size? I'll add the highlight definitely. XP would be useful for Underhive definitely. The current tools display amount of missing advances so that's a logical replacement for N17. Not sure Rating is useful there though.

in edit mode, don't hide the functions behind a button. It feels strange to be able to delete a fighter in one click but to need two to edit their kill count.

Well it's 2 clicks to delete! The intent behind hiding those is that they're at the top in the main stats area on smaller devices, placing the kill, delete etc all the way at the bottom on mobiles. So I see what you mean but I need to take into account mobile and portrait tablet where I need to be compact and display relevant information as a priority.

 

[Malo]

Underhive tools beta is now available to subscribers to play with. Access information is available in the post.

I'm currently targeting next weekend to get the first release out publicly, with the basic gang editor, campaigns and customize tools available.

 

[timdp]

Underhive tools beta is now available to subscribers to play with. Access information is available in the post.

After subscribing yesterday, the link gets me this:

"YakTribe.games - Error
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action."

 

[Malo]

After subscribing yesterday, the link gets me this:

uhhhh how about now?

 

[Malo]

• Fixed user verification functions
• Added new home page with similar layout to Necromunda tools
• Enabled side-menu addon for Underhive tools
• Settings page added
• Enabled Settings/Ruleset top-menu addon
• Gang Manager added for gang creation
• Custom Equipment editor updated for rarity fields and gang type selection
• Equipment output in ganger editor updated to support built-in and custom specific gang equipment

 

[Commissariat]

Oh! Functionality so that players can remove themselves from a campaign without needing the Campaign Owner to do it for them. We've had issues of Campaign Organizers disappearing and players want to transfer gangs to a different campaign but cannot because they are unable to do it by themselves.