Removed the combi weapon element. I think it's probably easiest to just equip an Ork wit ha 2 handed power weapon and a flamer, then represent it as a Burna, than have a dual profile weapon in the armoury just so the odd Ork can have one.
V3.0 Inquisimunda Weapons Overhaul
- Thread starter Doghead13
- Start date
Removed the combi weapon element. I think it's probably easiest to just equip an Ork wit ha 2 handed power weapon and a flamer, then represent it as a Burna, than have a dual profile weapon in the armoury just so the odd Ork can have one.
Actually, we can probably just allow the Toxic upgrade on a flamer, that way we still don't need an extra option.
Not entirely sure if most people will like that, but I can see how that simplicity can work. I like it!
Could alternatively add an easy option for make-your-own "combi weapons".
Buy the most expensive part, get the 2nd part for half price (rounded up to nearest 5TG). Each has separate ammo rolls but counts as one weapon in terms of swapping between fighters etc.
E.g.
Combi Flamer - Flamer 40TG, Bolter 35TG. Cost = 40 + (35/2=17.5 rounded to 20) = 60TG.
Burna - Flamer 40TG, Massive Weapon 10TG. Cost = 40 + (10/2) = 45TG
Deffgun - Heavy Plasma Gun = 240, Heavy Stubber = 120. Cost = 240 + (12/2) = 300TG
Scorpion Claw - Power Fist = 85, Shuriken Pistol = 20?. Cost = 85 + (20/2) = 105TG
Would always count as rare unless specifically on warband list.
Alternatively just stop worrying about what stuff does currently in 40k. Burna never had a melee profile in the olden times, it was just a flamer. What's wrong with just buying your ork a flamer and a separate melee weapon if he wants one?
Buy the most expensive part, get the 2nd part for half price (rounded up to nearest 5TG). Each has separate ammo rolls but counts as one weapon in terms of swapping between fighters etc.
E.g.
Combi Flamer - Flamer 40TG, Bolter 35TG. Cost = 40 + (35/2=17.5 rounded to 20) = 60TG.
Burna - Flamer 40TG, Massive Weapon 10TG. Cost = 40 + (10/2) = 45TG
Deffgun - Heavy Plasma Gun = 240, Heavy Stubber = 120. Cost = 240 + (12/2) = 300TG
Scorpion Claw - Power Fist = 85, Shuriken Pistol = 20?. Cost = 85 + (20/2) = 105TG
Would always count as rare unless specifically on warband list.
Alternatively just stop worrying about what stuff does currently in 40k. Burna never had a melee profile in the olden times, it was just a flamer. What's wrong with just buying your ork a flamer and a separate melee weapon if he wants one?
I like your combi-weapon suggestion. I will note that the burna is in the current Inquisimunda doc (2.0) with a special note that it counts as a power axe in melee. So I'm not that worried about it, but I think your general combi rule is more elegant.
Combi darklance + lascannon for 450pts? Yes please! Half the price for the 'lower one' will get abused soon I'm afraid.
This is fine when combining two ranged weapons, though I think either we should disallow heavy weapons or just have a list of allowed combi-weapons. Combi Heavy Weapons get around the rule that a fighter can only carry a single heavy weapon (NCE p78).
Note that the flexibility is huge if you can just strap a flamer or grenade launcher to anything at 1/2 price. I've had gangs where plenty of fighters had a hand flamer or flamer late in the campaign just for the option. You also haven't specified if the added weapon is one use. I'd be more onboard if either a failed ammo roll took both weapons out of ammo or if the secondary weapon remained 1 shot.
It isn't fine at all for melee/ranged combinations as there's no downside that I can see to combining whatever ranged and melee option you fancy. Just a cost reduction. I'd want any melee/ranged weapon to be 2 handed, not available on pistols and cost a lot.
Sorry to spam.
I've now added profiles for all the weapons I think are unique enough to need their own to the Suggestions sheet. This currently excludes a few that I'm unsure of like the exarch weapons etc. The stats are very much WIP, feel free to suggest changes.
Anything from current 40k that is not on the list is probably achievable using something in the Upgrades sheet, so do check there as well.
I've now added profiles for all the weapons I think are unique enough to need their own to the Suggestions sheet. This currently excludes a few that I'm unsure of like the exarch weapons etc. The stats are very much WIP, feel free to suggest changes.
Anything from current 40k that is not on the list is probably achievable using something in the Upgrades sheet, so do check there as well.
A reload is 1/2 the price of the weapon and allows you to ignore a failed ammo roll on the roll of a 4+, this would allow you to twin link to similar profiles and then when you fail an ammo roll automatically have another weapon to keep firing not needing the 4+ roll so its much better than a reload!
It is. Also it allows for more than one heavy weapon, as noted before. Also the price would be much lower, to make a much more versatile heavy.
Sigh. I really can't keep up with the changes in the NCE. The last version I printed out (and the last version I had stuck in my head) Weapon Reloads worked just like the Armourer skill.
I don't really particularly care how it's handled: Either just have the model buy both weapons at full price and say they're stuck together, or allow the discount @Tiny suggested above and prohibit heavy weapons.
I don't really particularly care how it's handled: Either just have the model buy both weapons at full price and say they're stuck together, or allow the discount @Tiny suggested above and prohibit heavy weapons.
In that case, IMO, allow combi bolters (cos they're a thing). Other than that, buy the weapons you want. You want an Ork with a Flamer and a Power Axe, go buy them. It allows more flexibility than insisting every Ork with a Flamer also has a Power Axe, yet isn't OP in any way. You want an Eldar with a Powerfist and a Shuriken Catapult, go buy them... etc.
EDIT: If Orks are having Bolters like in good old times, Combi Bolters work well for Snazzguns too.
EDIT: If Orks are having Bolters like in good old times, Combi Bolters work well for Snazzguns too.
OK, as before, this is just me putting some work in because @Gregor Firedrake said to dive in, I'm aware we've not yet formally set the Armoury team up and I'm a long way from a real proposal, just looking to ensure I'm not swimming against the tide here.
Where I mention spreadsheets, look here, and focus on the tabs (at the bottom) called Suggestions and Upgrades.
It looks to me like pretty much all of the ranged weapons that can be carried by a model in power armour or less (no crisis/terminators etc.) can be represented pretty well using the NCE&OCE stuff, at most 35 new profiles, and about 15 new weapon upgrades.
With 87 ranged weapons in the ][munda 2.0 armoury, 43 in the NCE+OCE (excluding Spyrer stuff) that puts us 10 down on the current total. It also lets us represent a truck load of things that aren't there and I wouldn't be surprised if we reduce that number a little once you all take a look at what I'm suggesting.
I've not touched melee yet, but at a glance, that should be pretty simple as there are far fewer permutations without range and number of shots to worry about.
I guess we might want to include a handful of weapons with no 40k equivalent like the Hrud Fusil and other stuff for our exotic Xenos. Feel free to suggest anything you think cannot be emulated using the profiles and upgrades presented in the spreadsheet.
There's a lot of work to be done deciding on profiles, costs and restrictions (how many upgrades can a weapon have? which ones?) but if we can broadly agree that this system will work, I'm happy to put in much of the effort required.
Where I mention spreadsheets, look here, and focus on the tabs (at the bottom) called Suggestions and Upgrades.
It looks to me like pretty much all of the ranged weapons that can be carried by a model in power armour or less (no crisis/terminators etc.) can be represented pretty well using the NCE&OCE stuff, at most 35 new profiles, and about 15 new weapon upgrades.
With 87 ranged weapons in the ][munda 2.0 armoury, 43 in the NCE+OCE (excluding Spyrer stuff) that puts us 10 down on the current total. It also lets us represent a truck load of things that aren't there and I wouldn't be surprised if we reduce that number a little once you all take a look at what I'm suggesting.
I've not touched melee yet, but at a glance, that should be pretty simple as there are far fewer permutations without range and number of shots to worry about.
I guess we might want to include a handful of weapons with no 40k equivalent like the Hrud Fusil and other stuff for our exotic Xenos. Feel free to suggest anything you think cannot be emulated using the profiles and upgrades presented in the spreadsheet.
There's a lot of work to be done deciding on profiles, costs and restrictions (how many upgrades can a weapon have? which ones?) but if we can broadly agree that this system will work, I'm happy to put in much of the effort required.
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could always have the second weapon be half price but move the ammo roll to auto and say you cant buy reloads for the secondary weapon representing that the secondary dose not get very many shots off and is time consuming to reloads ala fluff??
Seconded.
The current 40k iteration of the Shoota is actually closest to the NCE Shotgun with solid slugs, Slugga is a Bolt Pistol.
@4armless the onlything i think we should hold back on is upgrades for weapons, lets get the basic stats worked out for all the weapons we want to include before we add another layer of compleity to weapons that is not really needed currently.
appart from that it looks ace
The problem with that is without the upgrade system we're going to have to make profiles for dozens more.
What I'm proposing is that we can use upgrades to create a load of extra profiles. I'm not saying we need to include everything from 40k, and feel free to highlight where you think anything in the Suggestions or Upgrades tabs is unnecessary, but for stuff we do, why run a huge list of weapons when we can have a small one with customisation options (same rationale as the warband revisions!)?
As an example, why make 4 more profiles for Phosphor Serpentia, Phosphor Blast Pistol, Phosphor Blaster and Heavy Phosphor Blaster, when all of those can be dealt with by adding an upgrade available to Bolt Pistol, Shotgun, Bolter, Heavy Bolter:
Luminagen Bolts - Weapon gets Strength +1, Save Modifier -1, wounded models cannot hide and shots at them ignore cover until the end of next turn.
As these are Skitarii weapons, we can easily restrict it to Admech only.
Make more sense now?
I would use Bolter for 2 reasons.
1 - When original Necromunda was written, Orks had Bolters.
2 - You can then also use these as Orks with Shotguns:
Seems fair.
Either way, if what we're saying is that we do not need an extra profile for a Shoota, job done. Just let the player decide if their particular Ork has a Shoota that is more of a shotgun, or more of a bolter. I think that's in keeping with the rather random bodged together nature of Ork weaponry.
Just need to ensure Orks can buy both Shotguns and Bolters, and as they should be common weapons I think in the warband proposal everyone can access them.
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