V3.0 Warband Creation Update

[Tiny]

The way I see it:

Leader skill = +1
Re-roll Ld test = +1
Wound on failed re-roll = -1

So the guy is up by +1 for gaining the Leader skill anyway. The extra bits just even each other out. It is just for the sake of something fluffy to hand out that isn't just gaining the Leader skill. Not expecting people to use more than one but having a big Ork bosun who beats up his underlings seems too cool for school.

 

[tribeof1]

Okay, I was reading over the fact that they get Leader and the re-roll. I still think the wound on a failed re-roll is pretty nasty (like a -1.5 or so), enough to warrant making the re-roll optional (if you don't want to risk the wound on an unarmored mook) or make it an automatic Sx hit or something.

 

[Tiny]

Hmm, will have a further think about it. Fluffwise making it optional kills the narrative. The bully never stops to think whether he should shoot the guy running away, he just gets it done.

Remember, the guy is already likely running away at this point so a wound isn't the end of the world. Also only applies to initiates and warriors. Most likely he will go down. It may mean he dies, but I'm with Lundgren on that situation.

Anyone else got any ideas for a small fluffy rule we can give to Void Pirates?

 

[tribeof1]

In that case, have it be an automatic hit -- reduces the risk a bit by requiring adding a to-wound roll, at least.

EDIT: And I do really like the flavor of it. Reminds me of some of the old commissar rules.

 

[Lysimachus]

Hello all,

I've been following this rewrite for a few months (since finding it after starting to build a new warband for Inq28/Inquisimunda!) and I'm really, really impressed with the direction it's taking, love the simplification of the characters into basic archetypes and allowing the player to create their own backstory within that, so much easier to follow and balance than the v2 rules!

I'd really like to help out if I can, even if it's just proof-reading, etc?

With that in mind, I do have one small thought on the warband creation pdf that I hope you won't mind a newb to the group putting forward:

It's come to me based off of the most recent mini I've been building, a Tech Adept complete with servo arm/harness, but I don't see any way (so far) to include him rules-wise. It seems to me that many players like to include that type of character, whether it's an Inquisitor's attendant Techpriest, a Void Pirates Chief Engineer, an Ork Mekboy, etc... but only the AdMech warband can be equipped with servo arms? I was wondering if it would be workable to move servo arms to the main equipment list but with a * that they could only be taken by Heavies (seems the obvious choice?) and then put a note in the AdMech warband list removing that restriction? That way, all the warbands could still have one tech 'guy' without impinging on the uniqueness of the Explorators?

Just a little thought to consider, in any case I'll keep following this subforum and all the excellent work being done!

 

[spafe]

Hi @Lysimachus ! Welcome to the forum, and thanks for jumping in!

Please do read and critique all the stuff (there are scenarios, species, weapons threads too for when you have time to kill ).

That is a very good point, and I'm glad you raise it, simply because it shows you are looking at this with fresh eyes, which will help @Tiny tweak bits as are needed to truly become a more open and customizable warband list.

On the topic of the bully... I'd say an automatic hit, rather than auto wound. however I read it as 'all rerolls', so for exscaping pinning too (my fault for failing to read, its actually very clear). a LD test is unlikely to fail, given the elite will likely give you good shot at passing... and with reroll... even LD7 will pass 75% of the time so I actually think auto wound might be acceptable. Sorry, in the process to wrting that out I seem to have talked myself round to the other side lol.

 

[Gregor Firedrake]

I think that billues is nice how it is, costs an advance to get a seacond leader (he cant effect a max of 2 other people in the warband, the 1 other elite and the leader) but it comes at a potential cost to your slovenly souldiers, them being bullied would not be optional but the bonus is to good for it not to cost an advance and like i say i think its a nice little balance of power and drawback

 

[Tiny]

Hi @Lysimachus

Your observations are very welcome indeed. Thank you for your feedback. It is great to get as many pairs of eyes on it as possible.
___________

In terms of the servo arm, I haven't fully fleshed out all of the wargear lists yet as that can't be done until the wargear section is done. Everything that is there is currently a placeholder and up for debate once we have a working wargear list. Thanks for pointing it out though as it isn't something I had yet thought of. I'm thinking it will end up as a Leader/Elite item on many of the lists. If something isn't on a list, feel free to playtest as if it is on there and let us know how you get on.

___________

In terms of Bullies and other special Elite skills, would it make sense rather than adding some broadly similar elite skills to each warband, to make a generic list of Elite skills that can be taken by anyone (or have a list of which warbands can take them next to the skill)? I can certainly see an Inquisitor's retinue containing a Zealot or a Preacher, or an Imperial Guard team containing a Bully (Commissar).

See @Lysimachus your comment got me thinking about other stuff that everyone might want. Good stuff.

 

[Lysimachus]

Thanks, glad to be a help!

On your last point, @Tiny perhaps this could be an advantage for the 'standard' warband Inquisition Cell to balance against some of the buffs of the other groups? Given that a Retinue is more likely to include a variety of characters, they could have a wider selection of Elite skills/equipment available (but limited to individuals) whereas the other groups could specialise more?

 

[oGRE3]

Hi @Lysimachus
In terms of the servo arm, I haven't fully fleshed out all of the wargear lists yet as that can't be done until the wargear section is done. Everything that is there is currently a placeholder and up for debate once we have a working wargear list. Thanks for pointing it out though as it isn't something I had yet thought of. I'm thinking it will end up as a Leader/Elite item on many of the lists. If something isn't on a list, feel free to playtest as if it is on there and let us know how you get on.

i proposed this: https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/weapons-and-equipment-direction.5391/page-4#post-103506

 

[Gregor Firedrake]

Having just reread the new document i'm not sure i like the fact that Eldar and Tau have no way to become radicals, or at-least no negatives for being made radicals, this gives them a MASSIVE advantage in my mind and im not sure i see the full fluff reason for it, sure they would get supplied by there homeworld but them gaining Radical status would represent them being hunted but the imperium and cut off from these supplies as they are a small kill strike force operating in imperial space not a full on army so once there supply lines are found and cut off they would follow the normal radical rules, getting rid of there radical status would just represent them setting up new supply lines that the imperium had not yet found. and if were using the "they always get help from there race" to justify it inquisitors should get the same as radical inquisitors can still call in just as much man power. no guardsman or planetary govenour is going to stop to check a inquisitors credentials for feer of reprisal nor do they have the power to see the inquisitorial archives to actually see it, an inquistor thats being hounded how ever would lose much support just like if a xeno kill team was being hounded there support would deminish aswell

 

[Lysimachus]

I'm kinda inclined to agree with that, both from a game balance view and the fluff too?

If anything, from a fluff perspective I'd go the other way - given that Necromunda/Inquisitor/Imunda are all (generally) set somewhere within the Imperium, any Xenos would automatically be a Heretic by the simple fact of not being human. (Not that I'm saying they should be auto-Radical, but it should definitely be a possibility)

 

[Tiny]

Now that you mention it, that makes a lot of sense @Gregor Firedrake

Any more thoughts on that point folks?

Anyhow, no update this week as life has gotten the better of me again. Stay tuned next week for more thrilling updates.

 

[scavvyjay]

I'm not sure if radical Eldar or Tau make sense. they're filthy xenos scum that are the enemy of the Imperium anyway. How outlawing them will make them any more of a threat to the Imperium is beyond me. By operating in the Imperium, the Eldar,Tau,Orks etc are 'working' for their own race, or at least operating in a way that is harmful to their enemies. I see the xenos strike teams as semi state run terrorists that are well equipped by the race in question. Also by their very proffession, void pirates should be automatically outlaws. Maybe I'm getting too focussed on scavvy's wandering from one scrofulous waste to the next, but perhaps the heretic/outlaw penalties seem very harsh without the lucrative scenarios like caravan in the main necromunda rules.

 

[Squeekademus]

Why not just change Heretic/Outlaw to Infamy or Notoriety?

If an ork warband is going about scrawling lewd graffiti on bathroom walls no one is going to care. They will be infamous among the janitorial servitors but little else (also, Janitorial Servitor Warband pls k thx), but if a ork warband leader starts gaining more power and infamy is it will attract more orks and might start an decent sized force, then an army which might escalate to a full blown WAAAGH if left unchecked.

Same goes for pirates. At first it starts with a few low level traders but if they gain enough attention and power they'll eventually move onto bigger targets which could have a serious consequences.

Basically you want to convey that the warband is messing about with things they shouldn't and that the Powers That Be have decided to increasingly make an active attempt to hamper them instead of delegating it to someone else, right? Notoriety/Infamy seems like it suits that description okay

 

[Lysimachus]

That's very true. Most of the warbands, whether criminal/pirates, xenos or even supposed 'good guys' are probably trying to fly under the radar of the Imperium (with the possible exception of very puritanical, and vocal, groups like Ecclesiarchy Cults, But these are less likely to be affected by many of the negative modifiers on the Puritan/Radical table anyway)

Avoiding notice means that you're more likely to be able to accomplish your goals without interference? So it's perhaps less a matter of being 'Puritan' or 'Radical' and more a simple question of whether the Imperium has started to notice what you're getting up to? (This also fits with higher rated warbands being more likely to go 'Radical'?)

 

[Tiny]

What @Lysimachus said.

The way I see it is that a "radical" warband is purely one that has been noticed and targeted by the Imperium and now as such must keep its head low to avoid Imperial justice. A non-radical Xeons warband would be one which hasn't yet been noticed in their mission and is still under the protection of their superiors / government. Once noticed, it becomes a lot harder to get supplies etc.

We can bugger with the terminology as much as we like really. I just went with the currently used wordage from V2. I like the words "Heretic" and "Radical" as they fit with the original Inquisitor fluff but open to ideas. I would prefer to keep the system as close to the Outlaw system from NCE as possible though.

 

[spafe]

Just to show I have read this... I agree with the interpretations @Lysimachus and @Tiny put forwards. And like the keeping of the same system across all warbands.

@scavvyjay , I get what you eman about 'state sponsored' groups, and if that's how you want to run them, by all means, however at that point once they make a big enough kafuflle, the powers that be will be on the watch for any supplies making to to them (as the others view it), but also... if we allow them to be puritan and radical (using v2 names), it emans that those elder could have parleyed a truce of sorts with someone in authority to start with, then 'going radical' is that guy being spotted and replaced, or those tau who have been granted passaged to open diplomatic ties (the official reason for them being there regardless of hidden motives), means they might be able to use that leverage of 'not ruining negations' to get that really fanatical warband who maliciously attacked them for no reason, declared radical.

I like the grey-ness of the stories Imunda can uncover. This is the pull to me, and makes it worthwhile keeping these mechanics, so that different possibilities can always be used.

 

[bubbleunder99]

Going back a bit:

Anyone else got any ideas for a small fluffy rule we can give to Void Pirates?

It would be nice if pirates could somehow steal items or money from the other gang, but it's hard to think up a way this could be done without being too powerful. Maybe a skill whereby if a pirate defeats someone in HtH they gain D6 credits out of that gang's stash?

But I like this 'bully'/bosun idea and so does my Beastman bosun.

 

[bubbleunder99]

Another thing on warband creation while I remember: it took me a certain amount of time and puzzlement to grasp that in the V3 warband lists, you don't see, for example, an Eldar Warlock as an option, but rather, if you want a Warlock you build him yourself from the available rules - so, probably a Leader or Elite Eldar with appropriate weapons and psychic powers.

There is some wording already (in the bit that describes what Leaders, Elites, Heavies etc are and do) that explains this (believe the wording for Elite gives an example of a Warlock actually) but perhaps it would be worth having more of a full explanation at the front of the document, just so that people casually browsing the rules don't pick it up and go 'Huh, no X, Y or Z? Boo!' and lose interest. Just something like:

'Due to the vast range of possible characters in the 40k universe, and the way the same character type is often depicted differently in the background, we don't try to list every possible type of fighter. Instead, if you want to recreate a specific fighter type from 40k for your Imunda warband, you would choose an appropriate fighter type and set of equipment to represent them.'

N.B. having figured out what's going on, I think the V3 way of doing warband creation is an excellent idea - it makes everything a lot more clear, concise and readable and manages, in one fell swoop, to stop a lot of arguments about how exactly this or that troop type should be statted in Imunda rules.