I suppose I’ll need to make a model on foot for him especially for when someone shoots Bessie.
Vampire Wars: The Empire vs The Undead
- Thread starter Tiny
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Yep, better get used to walking.... It can be a long walk or you can be dropped nicely behind the enemy army... I guess it depends who you are fighting and what sort of skirmishing hunters they have available... Also if isolated from you lines they can be cannon/high BS sniped while walking.
My longest running army is dark elves and I assure you losing a pegasi on a mage or even a lord is pretty much a death sentence when you have T3... lol
8th Ed Undead based question...
Skeletons... how many to build? Assuming bus units of 25+ with swords mostly?
Zombies... is there such thing as too many? Assuming large hordes are worthwhile given they're so cheap? Got 40 Mantic ones on the way so hoping that is enough to get me started. Can easily bulk out to 50 with unit fillers.
Skeletons... how many to build? Assuming bus units of 25+ with swords mostly?
Zombies... is there such thing as too many? Assuming large hordes are worthwhile given they're so cheap? Got 40 Mantic ones on the way so hoping that is enough to get me started. Can easily bulk out to 50 with unit fillers.
For what size game?
The answer is probably a lot in any case, especially with summons, but you'll obviously need more for 3,000 point games than for 2,000 point games.
The answer is probably a lot in any case, especially with summons, but you'll obviously need more for 3,000 point games than for 2,000 point games.
3000 I guess.
You can make a list for a 2000 point game from a 3000 point army but not the other way around.
I'm gonna guess that at 150 points for 50.. I'm going to need 100 zombies at least.
spafe
Executive Officer in charge of Hats
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I've not really seen how undead scale up to 3k points. At 2k, it's not uncommon to have 2 or 3 units of zombies, although equally one min unit as character bunker isnt too uncommon. that would mean between 20 and 80 (2 units of 30 and 1 of 20) starting, depending on how you want to build the army. Because zombies will grow in number crazy fast, having a spare20-30 (if you have 1-2 units) or 30-50 (if you are running 3 units) wouldnt be too bad. You can also raise new units of zombies..., which can then grow quickly too if left uncecked for a turn or 2.
Skellies, becuase you can only raise them above their starting number with one necromancer (who takes Master of the dead), you need a lot less 'spare' of them, maybe 20 max unlss you are really gunning for having 3 units of skellies, min to no zombies and playing a raise skellie game.
One other side to this, grave stones on bases are great as they can be anything, and equally if push came to shove, I'd fill out extra raised models with skellie/zombie mix as its still clear what the unit is. Off hand I cant actually remember if you can raise Grave guard above their starting number, but either way I'd only get 20, then fill out the back ranks with reg skellies anyway as they are cheaper.
This is all for 8th. If you have enough for that, because of the lower model count, even though you can raise units in diferent ways you will have more than enough models for earlier edition spares
Edit: also thinking about it, I can't imagine going from 2k to 3k wil lreally increase your need much as you ar likely to invest in maybe 1 extra core unit that isnt ghouls or wolves, and more of your points are likely to go into characters and harder hitting stuff elsewhere. Also as magic doesnt scale up until you are above 3k (and into grand army territory), you still have the same amount of powerdice being generated.
Skellies, becuase you can only raise them above their starting number with one necromancer (who takes Master of the dead), you need a lot less 'spare' of them, maybe 20 max unlss you are really gunning for having 3 units of skellies, min to no zombies and playing a raise skellie game.
One other side to this, grave stones on bases are great as they can be anything, and equally if push came to shove, I'd fill out extra raised models with skellie/zombie mix as its still clear what the unit is. Off hand I cant actually remember if you can raise Grave guard above their starting number, but either way I'd only get 20, then fill out the back ranks with reg skellies anyway as they are cheaper.
This is all for 8th. If you have enough for that, because of the lower model count, even though you can raise units in diferent ways you will have more than enough models for earlier edition spares
Edit: also thinking about it, I can't imagine going from 2k to 3k wil lreally increase your need much as you ar likely to invest in maybe 1 extra core unit that isnt ghouls or wolves, and more of your points are likely to go into characters and harder hitting stuff elsewhere. Also as magic doesnt scale up until you are above 3k (and into grand army territory), you still have the same amount of powerdice being generated.
Yes, unit fillers are definitely a thing in 8th. And fairly easy for undead too. (I wouldn't worry about mixing stuff up towards the back of units either. Indeed, recycle your Empire casualties into the back ranks of your zombie units...)
It definitely doesn't scale linearly. You don't need twice as many for 3k as for 1.5k. But you do need more for 3k, so the answer is definitely a lot - depending also on your attitude to fillers/proxies.
Thanks for the insight chaps.
I think I can muster about 80 skeletons and have 40 zombies on the way. Should be plenty of skellies. May get a second box of Mantic zombies at some point to fill two big hordes and a bunker. Although I'm sure if I root around I'll find more zombies here somewhere I can re-base to squares.
I think I can muster about 80 skeletons and have 40 zombies on the way. Should be plenty of skellies. May get a second box of Mantic zombies at some point to fill two big hordes and a bunker. Although I'm sure if I root around I'll find more zombies here somewhere I can re-base to squares.
I use 120 Skeletons plus 30 for rasining, 100 Zombies plus 60 for raising, 60 Ghouls as the core of a 5k army. Obviously I've got chaff units on top of those... Your main combat line should be Grave Guard, I use as many as I can afford, Hand weapon and shield for defensive, great weapon horde for hitting I've got 80 but could always do with more!
Don't use Zombies as a bunker...EVER, NEVER EVER EVER EVER... Crumbling will pop your characters regardless of protections and anything that can hit goes though zombies like a knife though air. They are a tar pit and that works well but don't let your characters be caught up in that slow tar pit cause it will go down fast....
Don't use Zombies as a bunker...EVER, NEVER EVER EVER EVER... Crumbling will pop your characters regardless of protections and anything that can hit goes though zombies like a knife though air. They are a tar pit and that works well but don't let your characters be caught up in that slow tar pit cause it will go down fast....
They don’t crumble to shooting and I’m assuming if they’re in combat they’re doing it wrong anyway.
Take a small/medium sized unit of Skeletons with spears instead... You're going to be advancing even with a bunker because you don't have much range on your magic, its either close ranged support or medium ranged attacks and support is far far better... You can't afford to leave them at the back and even if you do zombies will go down to light cav, damn zombies could lose a fight to goblin cav without any trouble and losing at character because you got hit in the flank and just lost combat by double figures sucks balls.
Additionally your characters don't need to even be in a unit unless they have artillery as if your within 6" of a unit you can't be targeted when on foot.
The enemy willl have multiple cannons, mortars and a steam tank... because the enemy is me.
(Building the Undead army for my brother to play)
Yeah then don't do that... I did realise that when I wrote it actually but I was giving generic advice rather than specific advise... Skeletons... Skeletons are fantastic for so many roles, Zombies are just to get in the way and scare people into shooting them... you can even have a line of them ahead of your advance to take all on coming missile fire then just reform them in front of a missile unit when you get to the enemy and charge the rest of your forces past them.The enemy willl have multiple cannons, mortars and a steam tank... because the enemy is me.
spafe
Executive Officer in charge of Hats
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
I've got to disagree here. I love a small unit of 20 zombies as a bunker for necromancers. They can sit behind my main advance and should never get into combat. It protects from shooting, magic and light cav. By the time you reach combat, you should have got at least one raise off. That's 2d6+4 more zombies. Really it will have been 2 (although maybe not on the lvl 4 both times), so thats approx 20 more zombies. Even if something hits you and kills 10, who cares, and thats turn 3. you prioritse another raise and they are back.
Skellies dont grow as fast (and only at all if you take MotD, which also means they will only grow to a max of one raise a turn). Dont get me wrong, I dont think there is a 'right/wrong' answer, I just think both can perform the role well, and personal preference is zombies because of how quickly they grow.
Also, those gobbo cav... they arnt passing their fear test, they are not hitting well!
Although yeah, necromancers only, fighty characters should obvs not be in zombie units or they will crumble too much
For the goblins failing fear test isn't that bad in Warhammer 8th, against Zombies your still striking first and hitting on 4+ if you can get them into combat, and there's plenty of leadership tricks in 8th, too many in my mind...
In regards to the Zombie Nerco unit, I'd rather have a corpse cart, better survivability and you can keep it behind you in the same manner, you can heal it and it gives off more buffs to the front line. You can heal it as well. Again this is slightly more risky against Empire who have the big guns to threaten such constructs but if they are shooting your corpse carts then you aren't losing Cav, Monsterous infantry, monsters or Terrorghiests to those big guns and one thing a Vampire Army has are plenty of big dangerous cannon targets.
You are of course right however, its pure taste no wrong or right way and my style of play is tilted to playing games of 5k or above, 5k is my go to game size or was, I don't get much time to play games of warhammer and haven't for a while so when I've got it scheduled I like it to last the better part of the day, and I'm rather partial to 10k + games but I can only do that with Dark Elves
Suppose I'd best do one for the Undead too.
I make that 85 painted minis this month. Not bad if I do say so.
I make that 85 painted minis this month. Not bad if I do say so.
If it's specifically for 8th edition, then I'd say HW&S. The extra skeleton attack (WS2 and S3) isn't that dangerous. You're better off with the better save, since each skeleton saved is also likely to save another from crumbling.
I’ll build a unit of hand weapon and a unit of spears for variety, plus extras for summons. He can run them as whatever he chooses.
