N18 Van Saar first list help

[Rico_87]

Hi, first of all sorry for my broke english (i'm italian). I am about to start a dominion campaign with my friends for the first time and i'd like to have some advice.

here it is:

PRIME 220
las pistol hotshot
plasma pistol
mesh
gunfighter

AUGMEK 245
grav gun
mesh
hip shooting

ARCHEO TEK 270
plasma pistol
spider rig
mesh
weaponsmith, ocular CT

TEK SPECIALIST 110
las gun hotshot
mesh

NEOTEK 75
plasma pistol

SUB TEK 40
plasma pistol

SUB TEK 40
plasma pistol

Thanks to anyone who wants to give an opinion

 

[HugeSamples]

While I don't have Van Saar-specific advice, I do have some general suggestions.

Action economy is very important in Necromunda, as is having enough bodies so you don't have to immediately take bottle checks.

Starting with seven members feels like too few. However, it's possible that Van Saar have a more elite play style than I'm used to.

You only have one long-range weapon—a hotshot lasgun—and one medium-range weapon—a grav gun. My understanding is that Van Saar are more of a gunline gang and generally don't want to be too close to their opponents (Van Saar players, feel free to correct me).

I’d reconsider giving everyone a plasma pistol.

 

[Rico_87]

Hi! thank you for your reply! i played just a couple of skirmish game (underhive setting) and i felt that distances are way less important than other games ( for example 40k). I agree with you on the fact that van saar should avoid to be near the enemy so maybe i can give a plasma gun to the Prime

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Hi! thank you for your reply! i played just a couple of skirmish game (underhive setting) and i felt that distances are way less important than other games ( for example 40k). I agree with you on the fact that van saar should avoid to be near the enemy so maybe i can give a plasma gun to the Prime

There are four "ranges" that are important in Necromunda and different gangs and board types use them differently.
Melee, in beat stick range.
Close, your Templates, pistol shot sort of range.
Medium, the average "rifle" range
Long range. Anything over your typical rifle range.
Van Saar are all about the guns.
Your Van Saar typically don't want to be anywhere near close or melee range. They are slow so struggle to escape it and the native melee options are lack luster at best, archeoteks can give it a go with a lot of work, planning and credits but will pale in comparison to true melee specialist like Goliath Stimmers.

Your close range guns run the gamut of workaday laspistols to the very punchy plasma gun but if you are close enough to engage in a pistol duel you are dangerously close to melee.
For your shotgun type guns the suppression laser is ok (reliable reloading is a good thing) but everyone else gets the Combat Shotgun and upgradable nasty ammo so will beat you at that game
In general your Template game is also lacking. Flamers are over priced, you don't get the extra nasty web guns or shotgun ammos. The Radgun is pretty sweet however, Toughness and armour bypassing is decent even if it only gives Flesh wounds.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

At Mid range that's when Van Saars start to shine.
They get cheap as chips lasguns which have great accuracy so hit all the time and like most others autoguns can be upgraded in punch later for your gangers cheaply.
The Grav gun has a little short range for mid range firepower but hits really hard and will seriously mess up vehicles if that's your game.
All plasma weapons rule the range bracket they are in. As do melta weapons.
At long range the Van Saar lack affordable options like the cheap long lasting and Rifle but what they do have is the las cannon and plasma cannon. Things for punching holes in Terminators. A little overkill but bringing one of them to the battle really is the last word in long range duels. The rad cannon has all the rad phage benefits of bypassing armour and Toughness with it's trait, regular armour with -2 Ap (you need Meltas and top tier anti tank weapons to beat that) and a awesome 4+ not scarce ammo roll. The S2 is meh but it has a Blast 5" template. And your guys are immune to the nasty Radiation if you target callously.

Van Saar gangs can rule the mid range firefight with cheap 40 credit hotshot lasgunners on your teks and subteks overwhelming others with mass fire. Spread out a few close range street sweeper guns like Radguns and suppression lasers to mow down anyone who gets past the volley fire lasguns, a few higher punch mid range guns to hit that enemy boss at range safely with plasma or Grav guns and for those who think they can keep you out of range with heavy weapons and long rifles show them what a long ranged gun is supposed to be with either cannon.

For your gang I would drop all the plasma pistols (a good if at times over the top back up pistol for close range emergencies later) and get more bodies with the humble lasgun. To start with the lasgun does fine and you can improve it later when goes get tougher and armour. In return you get more bodies, more shots a higher bottle point and more tactical flexibility.

Unlike most juve fighters your subteks are good shots on BS 4+. With an accuracy bonus of +1 at 18" with a lasgun they are hitting on 3+ without bothering to use the Aim action. For a basic rifle gang fighter shot that is just plain nasty. It is entirely possible to run your gang without regular teks and just subteks
Don't bother promoting your subteks. Let them keep Fast Learner and rack up advances quickly.

 

[Rico_87]

Hi, thank you a lot for your in deep review, it's very interesting! which weapon would you go for the leader? would you keep the archeotek? i'd probably say yes because i really like to have a cc option, even it's a not so powerful one. Last question, would you start with the hotshot just from the beginng or you would add later? Thanks!!

 

[Rico_87]

Sorry guys for double a message but i notice now that in my list i wrote plasma pistol instead of las pistol on subteks! that's because you keep saying to remove that! my fault

 

[Hobo86]

I would pick a few lasgun models (to pin hostiles)
combined with plasma to do damage, some plasmas pistols can be usefull, but a plasmagun with a bit of range can kill at a distance

an overseer leader to activate other models 'can' also be a usefull inclusion

archeotec could be combined in the long run with a heavy bolter... some of the tech skill can help a gun platform build greatly

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Hi, thank you a lot for your in deep review, it's very interesting! which weapon would you go for the leader?

Personally I usually go for either a Plasma gun or a Grav gun on my Primes. With the awesome BS they have it will do the work.
I don't bother with shooting skills on them though the High BS and a decent special weapon is more than enough to keep them a threat on the field at all levels of play.
I see why people would use Overseer but Van Saar have a problem with it. They only get to use it to shoot people once on any opponent. Any player that has faced a double shot Plasma Cannon volley from a Van Saar Overseer will never put any of their fighters in a position where that can happen again.
Overseer is a broken skill.
I would give them Fixer instead. That is a Lasgun, hotshot pack or a Hotshotted Lasgun every turn (or whatever you want to spend the credits on). Shooting gangs live and breath on credits for shooting weapons and sights etc.

would you keep the archeotek? i'd probably say yes because i really like to have a cc option, even it's a not so powerful one.

Again personally I would keep the archeotek. But as suggested leave of the plasma pistol to start with. They may not be the all around kill machine a Death Maiden or Naght Ghul is but with the Spider rig they are a pretty awesome counter charger.
A base of 6 shock and Entangle attacks on the charge which can also be Versatile is not to be sniffed at. Especially at Gang fighter targets. Add a decent basic or special weapon later (weaponsmith and Gadgeteer are a pretty strong build with the right gun).
They are (with the above two skills) also the only fighter that can make Digi weapons worth it. As per the wording in the book those skills apply to Weapons, not just guns.
Use Weaponeer to give your Digi weapons, and your spider rig while you are at it, Plentiful then Gadgeteer to give them Rending. At S 1 you will only be wounding anything on a 6 anyway so Rending will be automatically triggered if you manage to wound making it a D2 weapon, or Shock then natural sizes to hit will automatically wound ignoring the lasers puny strength altogether. (A Rending Spider rig with it's Paired and Shock traits puts your Archeotek up to Death Maiden levels of nasty as well)

Last question, would you start with the hotshot just from the beginng or you would add later? Thanks!!

Hotshot later. It gives your subteks and teks something to aspire to.
Also you can fit in another body with a lasgun possibly it you manage well.
Further later builds you could do for your lasgun teks (pre specialist) is either a Carbine or Suppression laser. Use the Hotshotted Lasgun for long range sniping and the carbine for closer range rapid fire covering fire. Or the suppression laser for close range street sweeping.

 

[Rico_87]

Thanks a lot! you gave me a lot of useful info!!

 

[Psyan]

Hello and welcome Rico!

There is some great advice in this thread! I just wanted to add a few general comments about building Van Saar gangs.

As an elite-ish shooting gang with slow movement and poor melee skills, VS need to be able to do damage from as far away as possible. The vast majority of your gang should have 24" (or more!) weapons. Pistols are not strong choices as primary weapons. Some people like to have a single Gunfighter Augmek with paired pistols, but that's because it's cool, not because it's particularly effective. It's also just one fighter. The only primary weapons with less than 24" range you should consider are Melta Guns, Grav Guns Hand Flamers (especially on Neoteks!) and Rad Guns, in roughly that order and almost always paired with the Hip Shooting skill.

To start, focus on the gang's strength: shooting. Just because the Prime isn't as bad at melee as the rest of the gang doesn't mean he's actually good at it. Start him with a Plasma Gun, possibly the Fixer skill and keep him safe and far away from the enemy. Later, when you have some credits to spare, get him a Shield and either a nice pistol or a Versatile close combat weapon.

Archaeoteks are super cool fighters who are more flexible than Augmeks because you can kit them to be acceptable melee fighters. That said, I never start with one because the Augmek fills the shooting role just as well and costs less. I hire the Archaeotek when it's time for a third champion and I have Trading Post access so that I can also start him with a good long range weapon, instead of just a pistol. Shooting is still the Archaeotek's primary purpose! Using the Spider Rig for mopping up enemy fighters who stumble into charge range is a back up job.

Van Saar have some of the best Juves in the game because they a) have the same shooting skill as most gangers and b) can take a Lasgun, unlike most Juves, who are stuck taking only pistols. Subteks with Lasguns should be a base for any VS gang.

Unless you happen to have a small handful of credits left over at the end of gang creation, you should probably skip upgrades like Hot Shot packs at the start; those can be added later. Your goal should be to start with at least 8 fighters in your gang. To me, that means that only the Prime and Augmeks start with Mesh Armor... on anyone else it's an upgrade that can wait in favor of getting more fighters.

I hope this was helpful!