N18 Van Saar nerf, lower toughness?

Daganisoraan

Ganger
Oct 25, 2021
80
77
28
Lately I have been looking at standardizing the stats of the various gangs and thought of something concerning the Van Saars (yeah I know its in the title). But first, here's some things in order. Assume that all the following Van Saar variants have the same skill options, weapon list and start with a bodyglove

Here are the normal stats of Van Saar found in House of Artifice for reference
1hk3yorkwzd1s5x5g.jpg


Here's my base template standardizing the stats of all 6 gangs
ozfe4lh7hmojorv5g.jpg

To the right is the formula I use to determine the cost value of each gang members.

GREEN COLUMNS = Worse stats in comparison to the base template
YELLOW COLUMNS = Improved stats in comparison to the base template


My first nerf attempt is based on the normal stats of Van Saars, having a worse move and initiative for every gang member in exchange of an improvement in BS and Int
7n72m9dopk16aqq5g.jpg



My second attempt, much simplier, only change the Int value because Van Saar need a lower Int value due to the Tech skill Cold and Calculating
9u8lwrfip9bu4zg5g.jpg

While this version is super balanced, with the other five gangs also each having a lower Ld/Cl/Wil/Int stats for a little bit personality, i find it a bit boring.

Here's what I want to show and discuss with you guys and gals
Lately, I came up with this idea. Still improve the BS and Int of Van Saars, but lowering their Toughness instead of the other stats.
iehupxzx50fvjhm5g.jpg

Here's my reasoning
1-Lore wise, the Van Saar are supposed to be a sick people plagued by the constant radiation of their special cyberteknika, thus -1 Toughness. They do keep their immunity to Rad-Phage thanks to their bodygloves.
2-While a lower Tougness will make them much more vulnerable to attacks, their gangs have access to a free bodygloves giving them a 6+ save. In addition, they have access to energy shield and all armours. Thus, their lower toughness is compensated by an higher armour save and special defences.
3-Without move and initiative penalties, the gang will remain quite mobile, less prone to fall due to bad initiative check and also still benefit from an higher BS.

Any opinions?
 

JawRippa

Gang Hero
Mar 31, 2017
1,486
2,124
138
Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Any opinions?
If we go with vanilla GW ruleset, it'd work somewhat, however I feel that T2 hits too many nasty thresholds. Van Saars indeed have a lot of strengths to balance things out, but this change would basically force them into min-maxing shooting all the time.

I think that a better change might be giving all van saars a special rule that should they get a flesh wound, they always receive two instead. This makes them feel fragile, but they still can dabble in melee for example (because in melee fleshwounds don't matter as much, if you get SI you die to a coup-de-grace anyway).
 

Squee

Gang Champion
Jan 11, 2019
312
460
78
The way I understand the current state of balance in the game, Van Saar are in a good place as they are.

Prior to the release of "House of..." books all House gangs were relatively similar stat-wise, and the only outliers were Goliaths with their starting T4 and Van Saar with their obscene BS 2+. These two gangs likewise were the statistically stronger in the GotU times since there were no mechanisms, that the other ones could catch up. Of course actual games played in a multitude of ways, but overall, both Goliaths and VS had an edge, all other things being equal.

Now that most gangs received an upgrade in their respective "House of..." book, VS are actually closer to the median power level than they were in the GotU era. Whereas all other gangs got buffs that increased their combat potential (be it new effective fighter types, skills, or house specific special rules), VS didn't really get anything of that sort. Arguably their combat potential even diminished if just a little bit, since now heir gangers aren't allowed to take good weapons from the TP (read bolters and shotguns), but are instead forced to either take the good old Lasgun or overpriced VS specific Las-versions of regular common guns.

So long story short, I don't see that VS even need a nerf in the era of Death Maiden charging you from 14", 6T 3W Goliaths, Orlocks rolling 6s on demand and getting heaps of extra cash to boot, Piscean spektors and whatever the hell Acts of Faith do. They really don't have much going on for them aside from being somewhat better at shooting for the first 3-4 games.
 

Squee

Gang Champion
Jan 11, 2019
312
460
78
BS3+ on all gangers is not a 'somewhat better shooting', it is a huge upgrade in my opinion. Also a built in free undersuit is pretty silly. I still think that both Van Saar and Goliaths are at least 30% underpriced.

Think what you will, but unless that is backed by in game performance, that's all just opinions.
From what I was able to see, current VS perform decent in games, but that's it. Like I said, there's only so much you can do against a 6T 3W goliath even with 3+ BS if your only available weapons are a Lasgun, overpriced Shotgun and an Autogun.

Where I play, Gangers don't really do much in terms of killing stuff for any of the gangs, unless they happen to get a decent weapon somehow, and most (and I mean MOST) of the work is done by Champs/Leaders, who can routinely achieve 2+ even at the start of a campaign. So the fact that VS gangers are slower and pricier than most other gangers only hurts them. If anything, people tend to only take 1 which can be upgraded to a free Specialist, and then fill out their roster with Lasgun Juves, who do almost exactly the same thing, only cheaper.
 

Jayward

Gang Champion
Aug 4, 2020
287
454
63
BS3+ on all gangers is not a 'somewhat better shooting', it is a huge upgrade in my opinion. Also a built in free undersuit is pretty silly. I still think that both Van Saar and Goliaths are at least 30% underpriced.

Before Specialist Champions were introduced (and GW apparently gave up on coherent pricing) you could figure out the fighter costing formula pretty accurately; Bodygloves cost 20c, and based on other starting armours it's likely the true cost is 25c.

The problem wasn't the bodyglove, it was that GW had decided that WS and BS had roughly the same cost as movement and initiative. (+6c and +5c respectively). Likewise, things like the Subtek costing 35c isn't because of a free bodyglove, it's because GW tanked their mental stats.

Overall I do agree with you about them being under priced, though; given their impact on the game WS/BS and S/T increases should cost more on starting fighters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JawRippa

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
1,338
2,277
153
Edinburgh, UK
@Daganisoraan I've done a few variations of what you did, and do agree with JR, T2 just pushes VS in one direction, and I've spent the last year going through variations of recostings, and this is what we have. I started witha abseline of n average profile, and then calculated from that. I've also removed the bodyglove rule from VS, which they can choose to buy.

NameFactionCostTypeBase CostMMcostWSWScostBSBScostSScostTTcostWWcostIIcostAAcostLdLdcostClClcostWillWillcostIntIntcostSkillsSkillsCostWpn1Wpn1costWpn2Wpn2costWpn3Wpn3costWpn4Wpn4costWpn5Wpn5costWgr1Wgr1costWgr2Wgr2costWgr3Wgr3costWgr4Wgr4costWgr5Wgr5costWgr6Wgr6costWgr7Wgr7costOtherOtherCost
0 (Standard)030030544331417777
AmbotBrute235Brute304-53105-55305303155-5258-5658-59-10330Tunnelling Claw40Tunnelling Claw40Light Carapace60Respirator15Neg SR (x2)-40
Cawdor Stig ShamblerCawdor110Brute304-5445304104354259-108-58-58-5110SR (2)20
Chaos SpawnBrute0Brute
Chaos SpawnBrute0Brute
Iron AutomataBrute320Brute30544530530255-5258-565658-5330Assault Cannon40Power Claw553+100Neg SR (1); 2 SR0
Jotunn Servitor OgrynBrute115Brute30545-55305303154257658-59-10110SR (1)10
Mutated OgrynBrute125Brute3053105-553053031543157658-59-10110
Scrapcode-Corrupted AmbotBrute235Brute304-53105-55305303155-5258-5658-59-10330Tunnelling Claw40Tunnelling Claw40Light Carapace60Respirator15Neg SR (x2)-40
Sump Beast 1Brute140Brute304-5445306504355-5259-1065659-10330Neg SR-20
Sump Beast 2Brute140Brute30654441053043535258-5515658-5330Neg SR-20
Sump Beast 3Brute140Brute3054453041043543159-105155159-10330Neg SR-20
Warp MonstrosityBrute125Brute653106-106504103153158-5659-10220SR (2)20
Cawdor ChampionCawdor90Champion3053103103325425657765110SR10
Redemptionist DeaconCawdor95Champion30531031033254256565657110SR (1)10
Cawdor Cherub ServitorCawdor80Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)3055-56-102-52-5135175155159-10SR (5)50
Cawdor sheen birdCawdor50Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)306546-1032-5135258-578-59-10Claws10SR (3)30
Cawdor BrethrenCawdor35Ganger305443314178-577SR10
Redemptionist BrethrenCawdor35Ganger30544331418-565659-10SR (1)10
Cawdor JuveCawdor15Juve30655-55-53313518-59-108-58-5SR10
Redemptionist ZealotCawdor20Juve306545-53313519-108-579-10SR10
Cawdor LeaderCawdor120Leader30531031033254255156565515110SR10
Redemptor PriestCawdor120Leader30531031033254255156551565110SR (1)10
Redemptionist SpecialistCawdor35Specialist30544331418-565659-10SR (1)10
Chaos FamiliarChaos Helot Cult0Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)
Helot DemagogueChaos Helot Cult115Leader30531031033253525655156565110SR (1)10
Helot DiscipleChaos Helot Cult80Champion30531031033254176577110SR (1)10
Helot WitchChaos Helot Cult85Champion305443325418-576565110SR (2)35
Helot SpecialistChaos Helot Cult35Specialist30544331418-5777SR (1)10
Helot CultistChaos Helot Cult35Ganger30544331418-5777SR (1)10
Helot InitiateChaos Helot Cult0Juve30655-55-52-5313519-108-58-58-5
Corpse Grinder ButcherCorpse Grinder Cult180Leader3053104410410254255155155157110Mask25SR (3)30
Corpse Grinder CutterCorpse Grinder Cult130Champion3053105-53410254256565658-5110Mask25SR (3)30
Corpse Grinder SkinnerCorpse Grinder Cult80Specialist3053105-5331417779-10Mask25SR (3)30
Corpse Grinder InitiateCorpse Grinder Cult60Juve30545-5331418-578-59-10Mask25SR30
custom Champion 1Custom70Champion30654433253525657657110
custom Champion 2Custom70Champion304-54434103155-525657765110
custom Champion 3Custom70Champion3053105-5410325425656578-5110
custom Champion 4Custom70Champion3055-531033253525657765110
custom Champion 5Custom70Champion30531043325416576565110
custom Ganger 1Custom35Ganger305443314177657
custom Ganger 2Custom35Ganger304-544341015-5177765
custom Ganger 3Custom35Ganger3053105-541031425778-59-10
custom Ganger 4Custom35Ganger3055-5310331417777
custom Novice 1Custom15Juve30655-55-53313518-58-578-5
custom Novice 2Custom15Juve3055-55-52-54101418-58-577
custom Novice 3Custom15Juve306545-541031418-58-58-59-10
custom Novice 4Custom15Juve30655-54331418-58-58-57
Custom Leader 1Custom120Leader30654433253525515515515515110
custom Leader 2Custom120Leader304-531031034103155-5255156565515110
custom Leader 3Custom120Leader3053104410410254315515656565110
custom Leader 4Custom120Leader305431033253515156565435110
Delaque Piscean SpektorDelaque235Brute3053105-541041031535435765658-5110Paired Phase Claws40Light Carapace60SR (1)10
Delaque PhantomDelaque95Champion3053103103325352565656565110
Delaque Nacht-GhulDelaque100Champion30653103104103253525765657110
Delaque Psychoteric WyrmDelaque70Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)306546-10331418-5515658-5Jaws5SR (3)30
Delaque Cephalopod SpekterDelaque100Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)30545-5331351*FALSE*FALSE*FALSE*FALSEShock Tendrils20SR (5)50
Delaque GangerDelaque35Ganger305443314176577
Delaque SpykerDelaque160Hanger-On (Hire Fee is 50% True Cost)30656-105-534102535151551543565330SR (2)20
Delaque JuveDelaque15Juve30655-55-53313518-578-58-5
Delaque Master of ShadowDelaque115Leader305310310332535255156551565110
Delaque Psy-GheistDelaque40Prospect306545-53313519-108-578-5PW25
Delaque SpecialistDelaque35Specialist305443314176577
Palanite SergeantEnforcers95Champion3053103103325416565657110Magnacles15
Subjugator SergeantEnforcers105Champion3053103103325416565657220Magnacles15
Palanite HauntEnforcers100Champion305443325416565657220Magnacles15SR (1)15
Hardcase Cyber-MastiffEnforcers180Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)305310-341014258-56578-5110Shock Bite25Light Carapace60Respirator15SR (2)20
Palanite PatrolmanEnforcers45Ganger30544331417777Magnacles15
Subjugator PatrolmanEnforcers55Ganger30544331417777110Magnacles15
Palanite RookieEnforcers20Juve3055-55-53313518-58-58-58-5Magnacles15
Palanite CaptainEnforcers125Leader30531031033254255156551565110Magnacles15
Subjugator CaptainEnforcers135Leader30531031033254255156551565220Magnacles15
Escher KhimerixEscher120Brute306544410530315353158-5778-5110SR (1)10
Escher MatriarchEscher95Champion3053103103325352565656565110
Escher Death MaidenEscher110Champion3065310310341025353158-551577110
Escher Phyrr CatEscher105Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)30715310FALSE3312152578-578-5220SR (2)20
Escher PhelynxEscher30Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)30654FALSE33135259-1079-1010-15110SR (1)10
Escher Gang SisterEscher35Ganger305443313517777
Escher Little SisterEscher15Juve306545-53313518-58-58-58-5
Escher Gang QueenEscher125Leader3053103103325353155155156565110
Escher Wyld RunnerEscher20Prospect3065443313518-58-579-10
Escher SpecialistEscher35Specialist305443313517777
CritterExotic Beast25Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)306545-53313518-578-59-10SR (1)10
Caryatid FamiliarExotic Beast65Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)30655-5-2-52-512151778-58-5SR (4)40
Giant RatExotic Beast40Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)30654-3313519-108-510-159-10Bite10SR (3)30
GrapplehawkExotic Beast80Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)308254-32-5135259-1079-109-10Talons10SR (4)40
GyrinxExotic Beast80Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)30715442-52-5121519-1065657SR (3)30
Hacked Cyber-MastiffExotic Beast60Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)305310-3314258-56578-5Bite10SR (1)10
GrapplehawkExotic Beasts75Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)308254-32-5135259-1079-109-10110Talons5SR (3)30
Traind Cyber-MastiffExotic Beasts70Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)305310-3314257658-58-5Bite10SR (2)20
Cult FamiliarGenestealer Cult0Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)
Cult AdeptGenestealer Cult1403054433253525515515515515110SR (Ps)25
Cult AlphaGenestealer Cult165305310310410325352551551565515110SR (3rd arm)30
Cult Early Generation AcolyteGenestealer Cult1303053103103325352565515765110SR (3rd arm)30
Cult Later Generation AcolyteGenestealer Cult1003053103103325352565515765110
Cult Early Generation SpecialistGenestealer Cult7530544331417515658-5SR (3rd arm)30
Cult Later Generation SpecialistGenestealer Cult4530544331417515658-5
Cult Early Generation NeophyteGenestealer Cult7530544331417515658-5SR (3rd arm)30
Cult Later Generation NeophyteGenestealer Cult4530544331417515658-5
Cult AberrantGenestealer Cult1153053105-5530410255-5259-105156510-15110SR (3rd arm)30
Cult Early Generation InitiateGenestealer Cult5030655-55-53313518-56579-10SR (3rd arm)30
Cult Later Generation InitiateGenestealer Cult2030655-55-53313518-56579-10
Goliath ZerkerGoliath140Brute304-53106-106505303155-53157658-510-15110Fists5SR (1)10
Goliath Vatborn Forge BossGoliath100Champion30531044104102542565515658-5110
Goliath Vatborn StimmerGoliath105Champion305310441041025353158-5515658-5110
Goliath Unborn Forge BossGoliath110Champion40531044104102542565515658-5110
Goliath Unborn StimmerGoliath115Champion405310441041025353158-5515658-5110
Goliath Natborn Forge BossGoliath120Champion50531044104102542565515658-5110
Goliath Natborn StimmerGoliath125Champion505310441041025353158-5515658-5110
Goliath SumpkrocGoliath110Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)304-5310-410410256-10258-565711-20Jaws5Light Carapace60SR (1)10
Goliath Vatborn BruiserGoliath50Ganger3054441041014176578-5
Goliath Unborn BruiserGoliath60Ganger4054441041014176578-5
Goliath Natborn BruiserGoliath70Ganger5054441041014176578-5
Goliath Vatborn BullyGoliath15Juve30655-55-5341013519-1078-59-10
Goliath Unborn BullyGoliath25Juve40655-55-5341013519-1078-59-10
Goliath Natborn BullyGoliath35Juve50655-55-5341013519-1078-59-10
Goliath Vatborn Forge TyrantGoliath140Leader3053103104104102535315515515657110
Goliath Unborrn Forge TyrantGoliath150Leader4053103104104102535315515515657110
Goliath Natborn Forge TyrantGoliath160Leader5053103104104102535315515515657110
Goliath Vatborn ForgebornGoliath25Prospect306545-5341013518-578-59-10
Goliath Unborn ForgebornGoliath35Prospect406545-5341013518-578-59-10
Goliath Natborn ForgebornGoliath45Prospect506545-5341013518-578-59-10
Goliath Vatborn SpecialistGoliath50Specialist3054441041014176578-5
Goliath Unborn SpecialistGoliath60Specialist4054441041014176578-5
Goliath Natborn SpecialistGoliath70Specialist5054441041014176578-5
Orlock Lugger ServitorOrlock130Brute304-55-545305303155-52575158-58-5110SR (2)20
Orlock Road SergeantOrlock90Champion305310310332542565656565110
Orlock Arms MasterOrlock90Champion305310310332542565656565110
Orlock GunnerOrlock35Ganger305443314176577
Orlock GreenhornOrlock10Juve30655-55-53313518-58-58-58-5
Orlock Road BossOrlock140Leader30531031033315425515515515515110
Orlock WreckerOrlock15Prospect30655-543313518-578-59-10
Orlock SpecialistOrlock0Specialist
Ogryn Under-BossSlave Ogryn130Champion3053105-55305303154257778-5220
Slave OgrynSlave Ogryn85Ganger30545-5530530254258-578-59-10110
Lobo-SlaveSlave Ogryn100Ganger304-546-10530530255-52551551510-1510-15110SR (1)10
Ogryn JuveSlave Ogryn50Juve30655-55-5410530253519-108-59-109-10110
Ogryn Over-BossSlave Ogryn160Leader3053105-5530530315353156565658-5220
Van Saar Arachni-rigVan Saar200Brute5530410315315110Servo Arms10Lascarbines30Light Carapace60SR (20)20
Van Saar AugmekVan Saar100Champion305310310332541656565515110SR (1)5
Van Saar ArcheotekVan Saar125Champion3053103103325425656565515110SR (3)25
Van Saar Cyber-ArachnidVan Saar100Exotic Beast (HIre Fee Reduce by 50%)306545-52-52-5121518-5777Web Projector30Posioned Bite10SR (3)30
Van Saar TekVan Saar40Ganger305443314177765SR (1)5
Van Saar SubtekVan Saar20Juve30655-543313518-58-59-107SR (1)5
Van Saar PrimeVan Saar135Leader3053103103325425515515515515110SR (1)5
Van Saar NeotekVan Saar25Prospect30655-543313518-58-58-57SR (1)5
Van Saar SpecialistVan Saar40Specialist305443314177765SR (1)5

However, I think to recost any individual fighter you have to balance all gang fighters (and now due to Outcast, all fighters who can be hired as a leader, i.e. everyone), and you also need to work out the metric for that. To od that fairly, I feel you need to work back to juves and work up to leaders and champions. Hence, I regjigged the advancmenet chart to enable that:

Advance Roll Table​

Make any Advance rolls that are due immediately after the battle so that both players can witness the result, or in the diceroom with a player witnessing preferably.

Roll D66 and consult the Advance Roll table below:

D66AdvancementCharacteristic ChangeCost Increase
11-13+1 MovementUp to 6”+ 5 credits
6” to 8″+ 10 credits
Above 8″+ 20 credits
14-16+1 WSUp to 4++ 5 credits
From 4+ to 3++10 credits
From 3+ to 2++ 20 credits
21-23+1 BSUp to 4++ 5 credits
From 4+ to 3++ 10 credits
From 3+ to 2++ 20 credits
24-26+1 StrengthUp to 3+ 5 credits
From 3 to 4+ 10 credits
Above 4+ 20 credits
31-33+1 ToughnessUp to 3+ 5 credits
From 3 to 4+ 10 credits
Above 4+ 20 credits
34-36+1 Wounds1 to 2+ 5 credits
2 to 3+10 credits
Above 3+20 credits
41-43+1 InitiativeUp to 4++ 5 credits
From 4+ to 3++ 10 credits
From 3+ to 2++ 20 credits
44-46+1 Attacks 1 to 2+ 5 credits
2 to 3+ 10 credits
Above 3+ 20 credits
51-53Roll a D6:
1-3: +1 Leadership;
4-6: +1 Cool.
Up to 6++ 5 credits
From 6+ to 5++ 10 credits
Above 5++ 20 credits
54-56Roll a D6:
1-3: + 1 Willpower;
4-6: +1 Intelligence
Up to 6++ 5 credits
From 6+ to 5++ 10 credits
Above 5++ 20 credits
61-63The fighter gains a skill. Roll a D6:
1-4: pick one of the fighter’s primary skill sets and roll a random skill
5-6: pick one of the fighter’s secondary skill sets and roll a random skill
+10 credits
64-65Special – Result Dependent on Fighter Type:
Gangers (except for Aberrants): Either:
(1) promote the fighter to a Ganger Specialist
(2) or roll for a Hive Ken skill.
(1) + 0 credits
(2) +10 credits
Specialists: Either
(1) pick any of the skill sets available to the fighter’s gang and roll a random skill from it
(2) or promote the fighter to a Champion as described in their fighter entry
(1) + 10 credits
(2) +0 credits
Others Fighters: The fighter gains a random skill from any skill set available to their gang+ 10 credits
66Special – Pick any one Advancement from this tableAs aboveAs above

 
Last edited:

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
1,338
2,277
153
Edinburgh, UK
In addition, this is our edited Van Saar list

Van Saar Gang List

  • Special Rules
  • Fighter List
  • Maximum Characteristics
  • Skills Access
  • Naming Your Van Saar
  • Equipment List
  • Rare Trade Chart
  • Gang Tactics
  • Cyberteknika (separate page)
House Special Rules

Bodyglove:
Van Saar fighters will only be affected by the effects of the Rad-phage Weapon Trait on a 6 on a D6 (rather than a 4+), otherwise they will not suffer the additional flesh wound. If a fighter also wears a Hazard Suit, roll two D6. The fighter will only be affected if both dice roll 6.

Cyberteknika: Van Saar fighters may purchase and equip Cyberteknika.

Any fighter with the Gang Hierarchy (X) special rule when recruited may be given Cyberteknika at the costs listed as follows. Any Archeotek may choose one Alpha-level Cyberteknia for free, in addition to any others they purchase (which are bought at half-price).

Any fighter may also obtain Cyberteknika when they Advance or gain a Lasting Injury:

  • When a fighter gains a new Advance, they may also replace any of their body parts with a piece of Cyberteknia, paying the credits cost and going into Recovery.
  • To represent their use of Cyberteknika to counteract their rad-phaged bodies, fighters with the Gang Hierarchy (X) special rule must have an item of Cyberteknika installed for every three Advances they have. If they have had three Advances and have not had a piece of Cyberteknika installed for every three, they suffer a Lasting Injury – rerolling 11-43 and 61-66.
  • To repair a Lasting Injury (be it one just caused, or later in the campaign), during any post-battle sequence, the player simply pays the credit costs for the Cyberteknika associated with the Injury and places the fighter into Recovery. Once the fighter leaves Recovery, the effects of the Injury will have been replaced with the effects of the Cyberteknika.
Fighters

A starting Van Saar gang is made up of the following fighters:

  • 1 Leader – Prime
  • 0-2 Champions
    • Augmek
    • Archeotek
  • 0-1 Specialist – Tek Specialist
  • Any number of Gangers – Tek
  • Any number of Juves – Subtek
  • Any number of Prospects – Neotek
You have 1250 credits to spend and the gang must follow the standard Gang Composition rules.



Van Saar Prime (Leader)

135 credits


Primes are the masters of the Van Saar clan gangs. In the war for supremacy among the Clan Houses, they are the captains and commanders of the foot soldiers, leading their troops into battle against the unenlightened, the barbarian or those who would see the STC harmed in any way. Each one is a master of technology, especially that created by the clan Archeoteks, and brings a truly terrifying array of weapons with them when they enter battle in the name of their masters.

MWSBSSTWIALdClWillInt
5’’3+3+3324+25+5+5+5+


Equipment

A Van Saar Prime starts with no equipment. When the gang is recruited, they may purchase items available to them on the Van Saar Equipment List.

After recruitment, they may use any weapons or wargear in the gang’s Stash.

Special Rules

Gang Leader:
A House Van Saar gang must always include a single fighter with this special rule:

  • A fighter with this special rule may not retire during Campaign play. For a gang leader, the only way out is death.
  • Should this fighter die during the course of a campaign, or otherwise be removed (for example, if a captured Leader is sold to the Guilders), another fighter must be promoted to replace them.
Gang Hierarchy (Leader): During a battle, once this fighter’s gang has failed a Bottle test, during any End phase in which this fighter passes its Leadership check and does not flee the battlefield, any friendly Van Saar fighters that are within 12” of this fighter automatically pass their Leadership check and will not flee the battlefield.

Additionally, during Campaign play, this fighter may perform post-battle actions.

Group Activation (2): When a fighter with this special rule is activated, their controlling player can choose to activate a number of additional Ready Van Saar fighters equal to the number shown in brackets that are within 3” of this fighter as part of a ‘Group Activation’:

  • The controlling player must nominate all the fighter who will be activated in this way before any of them is activated.
  • Once all participants of the Group Activation have been nominated, the controlling player selects one and activates them as normal, fully resolving their activation before selecting and activating the next. Each fighter activates individually, groups do not activate simultaneously.
Additional fighters with this special rule activated in this way may not themselves use this special rule during this activation.

Cyberteknika: When recruited, a Van Saar Prime may purchase one item of Cyberteknika at the cost given in the equipment list.

Skills: When recruited, a Van Saar Prime may choose one skill from their Primary or Secondary skill sets. This skill does not cost any XP and does not increase the fighter’s credit value.



Van Saar Augmek (Champion)

100 credits


Second to the Primes are the Augmeks. Only slightly less dangerous in battle, they are well versed in countless forms of technological warfare and advanced wargear forms. Often they will act as the gang’s ‘heavies’, lugging massive weapons into battle, giving their Prime access to unrivalled firepower. Augmeks also stand ready to take up the leadership role should their Prime fall, allowing the Van Saar gang to transition swiftly from one commander to another without any loss of combat effectiveness

MWSBSSTWIALdClWillInt
5’’3+3+3324+16+6+6+5+


Equipment

A Van Saar Augmek starts with no equipment. During gang recruitment, they may purchase any weapons or Wargear from the Van Saar Equipment List.

After recruitment, they can use any weapons or wargear the gang owns.

SPECIAL RULES

Gang Hierarchy (Champion):
During a battle, once this fighter’s gang has failed a Bottle test, during any End phase in which this fighter passes its Leadership check and does not flee the battlefield, any friendly Van Saar fighters that are within 6” of this fighter automatically pass their Leadership check and will not flee the battlefield.

Additionally, during Campaign play, this fighter may perform post-battle actions.

Group Activation (1): When a fighter with this special rule is activated, their controlling player can choose to activate a number of additional Ready Van Saar fighters equal to the number shown in brackets that are within 3” of this fighter as part of a ‘Group Activation’:

  • The controlling player must nominate all the fighter who will be activated in this way before any of them is activated.
  • Once all participants of the Group Activation have been nominated, the controlling player selects one and activates them as normal, fully resolving their activation before selecting and activating the next. Each fighter activates individually, groups do not activate simultaneously.
Additional fighters with this special rule activated in this way may not themselves use this special rule during this activation.

Cyberteknika: When recruited, a Van Saar Augmek may purchase one item of Cyberteknika at the cost given in the equipment list.

Skills: When recruited, a Van Saar Augmek may choose one skill from their Primary or Secondary skill sets. This skill does not cost any XP and does not increase the fighter’s credit value.



Van Saar Archeotek (Champion)

125 credits


Archeoteks can be found at all levels of Van Saar society. Some, such as those of the inner circle, focus on understanding the STC, though there are many more who hold a valued position in the clan’s gangs

MWSBSSTWIALdClWillInt
5’’3+3+3324+26+6+6+5+


Equipment

A Van Saar Archeotek starts with no equipment. During gang recruitment, they may purchase any items available to them from the Van Saar Equipment List.

After recruitment, they can use any weapons or wargear the gang owns.

SPECIAL RULES

Gang Hierarchy (Champion):
During a battle, once this fighter’s gang has failed a Bottle test, during any End phase in which this fighter passes its Leadership check and does not flee the battlefield, any friendly Van Saar fighters that are within 6” of this fighter automatically pass their Leadership check and will not flee the battlefield.

Additionally, during Campaign play, this fighter may perform post-battle actions.

Master of Cyberteknika: The cost of any Cyberteknika purchased for a Van Saar Archaeotek is reduced by half (rounded up to the nearest 5 credits). In addition, when recruited, a Van Saar Archaetek may choose one Alpha level item of Cyberteknika to be equipped with when they are added to the gang for free. This does not cost any credits and does not increase the fighter’s credits value.

Technomancer: Van Saar Archeoteks may never be promoted to Leader of the gang, nor may they challenge the gang’s leader. If the gang’s Leader should die or otherwise leave the gang, they are ignored when determining who should be the next leader.

Skills: When recruited, a Van Saar Archeotek may choose one skill from their Primary or Secondary skill sets. This skill does not cost any XP and does not increase the fighter’s credit value.



Van Saar Tek (Ganger)

40 credits each


The foot soldiers of the Van Saar clan gangs are the Teks. Despite their humble status in a Clan House filled with technological geniuses and augmented cyber- warriors, a Tek is often better equipped and trained than their rivals from other gangs. The armour built into their survival suit, combined with access to highgrade energy weapons, is only part of this – the remainder being increased intelligence and an education second only to those born in the spire

MWSBSSTWIALdClWillInt
5’’4+4+3314+17+7+7+6+


Equipment

A Van Saar Tek starts with no equipment. When the gang is recruited, they can be equipped with Basic Weapons, Pistols, Close Combat Weapons and Wargear available to Teks from the Van Saar Equipment List. In addition to these, a Van Saar Specialist may also be equipped with special and heavy weapons.

After recruitment, Van Saar Teks may use any Basic Weapons, Pistols, Close Combat Weapons and Wargear the gang owns. In addition to these, Van Saar Specialists may also use any Special or Heavy weapons the gang owns.

SPECIAL RULES

Gang Fighter (Ganger):
Fighters with this special rule form the backbone of House Van Saar gangs. The total number of fighters with the Gang Fighter (X) special rule in the gang must always be equal to, or higher than, the total number of fighters without the Gang Fighter (X) special rule combined, not counting Hangers-On or Hired Guns.

Promotion: When the gang is founded, a single Van Saar Tek can be promoted to become a Van Saar Tek-Specialist. During Campaign play, additional Van Saar Teks may become Van Saar Teks-Specialists through Advancements (see page 382). A Van Saar Tek-Specialist may purchase Special and Heavy Weapons.

If a Van Saar Tek-Specialist obtains a promotion to Champion through an Advancement, they will from now on count as either a Van Saar Champion for the purposes of determining which equipment and skill sets they can access (and may choose to become either an Augmek or Archaeotek). Their existing characteristics do not change but they will lose their current special rules and gain all the Special Rules associated with a Champion as appropriate.



Van Saar Subtek (JUVE)

20 credits each


Green Teks are sometimes referred to within the clan as Subteks – though these fighters are very capable, they are yet to be truly tested in battle. While other gangs often treat such lowly members of their crew as cannon fodder, hurling them into a fight with little thought to their survival, the existence of a Subtek is different. This comes down to the value the Van Saar place on all their fighters, and a desire to see them rise in the ranks rather have their lives thrown away.

MWSBSSTWIALdClWillInt
6’’5+4+3313+18+8+9+7+


Equipment

A Van Saar Subtek starts with no equipment. During gang recruitment, they may purchase Pistols, Close Combat Weapons and Wargear available to Van Saar Subteks from the Van Saar Equipment List.

After recruitment, they may use any Pistols, Close Combat Weapons and Wargear the gang owns.

SPECIAL RULES

Gang Fighter (Juve):
Fighters with this special rule form the backbone of House Van Saar gangs. The total number of fighters with the Gang Fighter (X) special rule in the gang must always be equal to, or higher than, the total number of fighters without the Gang Fighter (X) special rule combined, not counting Hangers-On or Hired Guns.

Promotion (Van Saar Ganger): As soon as this fighter has gained five or more Advancements, this fighter may be promoted to become a Van Saar Ganger. When a fighter is promoted in this way, they will from now on count as an Van Saar Ganger for the purposes of determining which equipment and skill sets they can access. Their existing characteristics do not change but they will lost the Gang Fighter (Juve), Promotion (Van Saar Ganger) and Fast Learner special rules and gain all the Special Rules associated with a Van Saar Ganger.

Hot-headed: Fighters with this special rule have much to prove and often act on impulse alone, hoping to impress their superiors. Consequently, older and wiser fighters expect them to be short-lived. Should a fighter with this special rule be Seriously Injured or be taken Out of Action, friendly fighters (other than fighers with the Gang Fighter (Prospect) and Gang Fighter (Juve) special rule) that are within 3” of them do not have to take a Nerve test, unless they also have this special rule.

Fast Learner: During campaign play, when this fighter rolls a D3 or D6 to determine Experience earned, they may reroll the result. They must accept the result of the second dice roll. After their fifth advance, this fighter no longer benefits from the Fast Learner rule.


Van Saar Neotek (Prospect)

25 credits each


Reckless and young, Neoteks have yet to feel the full effects of the wasting inflicted on the Van Saar by their use of their STC’s technologies. They favour either untested or dangerous tech, and are perhaps most well-known for their use of grav-cutters. Racing through the hive’s close confines on a repulsor platform like a cutter might look cool but, as more than one Neotek has discovered, it can be fatal.

MWSBSSTWIALdClWillInt
6’’5+4+3313+18+8+8+7+


Equipment

A Van Saar Neotek must purchase a Grav-Cutter when recruited – if a cutter cannot be purchased, then the Neotek cannot be puchased either.

A Van Saar Subtek starts with no equipment. During gang recruitment, they may purchase Pistols, Close Combat Weapons and Wargear available to Van Saar Neoteks from the Van Saar Equipment List.

After recruitment, they may use any Pistols, Close Combat Weapons and Wargear the gang owns.

SPECIAL RULES

Gang Fighter (Prospect):
Fighters with this special rule form the backbone of House Van Saar gangs. The total number of fighters with the Gang Fighter (X) special rule in the gang must always be equal to, or higher than, the total number of fighters without the Gang Fighter (X) special rule combined, not counting Hangers-On or Hired Guns.

Promotion (Van Saar Augmek, Van Saar Archeotek, Van Saar Tek-Specialist, or Tek with HIve Ken Skill): As soon as this fighter has gained five or more Advancements, this fighter must be promoted to become a Van Saar Augmek, Archeotek, Tek-Specialist or Tek with a Hive Ken Skill.

When a fighter is promoted in this way, they will from now on count as an Van Saar Augmek, Archeotek or Tek-Specialist for the purposes of determining which equipment and skill sets they can access. Their existing characteristics do not change but they will lose the Promotion (Van Saar Augmek, Van Saar Archeotek, Van Saar Tek-Specialist or Tek with Hive Ken Skill), Hot-Headed, Fast Learner and Gang Fighter (Prospect) special rules and gain all the Special Rules associated with either a Van Saar Augmek, Van Saar Archeotek, Van Saar Tek-Specialist or Tek with Hive Ken Skill as appropriate. Note that when a fighter is promoted in this way, an appropriate model should be used to represent their new category and type. A promoted Neotek may keep their Grav-Cutter, or give it to the Stash. Only a Neotek or any fighter promoted from a Neotek may be equipped with a Grav-Cutter from the Stash.

Grav-Cutter: When recruited a Neotek must be equipped with a Grav Cutter bought from the Van Saar Equipment list. A Neotek may never be mounted on a Mount, but in battles using Mounts counts as being equipped with a bike for purposes of crew selection.

Hot-headed: Fighters with this special rule have much to prove and often act on impulse alone, hoping to impress their superiors. Consequently, older and wiser fighters expect them to be short-lived. Should a fighter with this special rule be Seriously Injured or be taken Out of Action, friendly fighters that are within 3” of them do not have to take a Nerve test, unless they also have this special rule.

Fast Learner: During campaign play, when this fighter rolls a D3 or D6 to determine Experience earned, they may reroll the result. They must accept the result of the second dice roll. After their fifth advance, this fighter no longer benefits from the Fast Learner rule.


House Van Saar Maximum Characteristics

MWSBSSTWIALdClWillInt
6’’2+2+4442+44+4+4+4+


House Van Saar Skills Access

Van Saar fighters have access to the following skills:

AgilityBrawnCombatCunningFerocityLeadershipSavantShootingTechHive Ken
PrimeSecondarySecondaryPrimaryPrimaryPrimaryPrimaryN/A
AugtekSecondarySecondarySecondaryPrimaryPrimaryPrimaryN/A
ArcheotekPrimarySecondaryPrimarySecondaryPrimaryN/A
SpecialistSecondarySecondaryPrimarySecondaryPrimaryN/A
TekSecondarySecondaryPrimarySecondaryPrimarySpecial
SubtekPrimarySecondarySecondarySecondaryN/A
NeotekPrimarySecondarySecondaryPrimaryN/A



Naming your own Van Saars

Van Saar names are distinctive, harkening back to the ancient family line that spawned the clan, and still used as a means of binding the close and secretive House together. Below are some names that can be used, adapted or combined when creating your own Van Saar gang.

Lisbet, Schylaar, Otto, Onia, Engael, Anbrecht, Larz, Espen, Dael, Basteaan, Schae, Aldona, Hanselt, Marteeus, Jeroen, Koen, Rutgeer, Lucien, Sargen, Maex.



House Van Saar Equipment List


All items – Common, Rare and Illegal – on a gang’s equipment list are available when the gang is recruited; items are bought for a gang’s fighters, within the limits of what they can purchase and their capacity. Gang Equipment may also be bought and is added directly to the Stash.

After recruitment, Rare and Illegal items from this list may only may only be purchased by the gang when obtained by Trade actions. Common items on the gang’s equipment list may always be bought by the gang between battles, alongside any Common items available from the Marketplace.

WEAPONSRarityCostSize
Close Combat Weapons
AxeCom.51
ChainswordRare201
Digi-WeaponRare150
Energy ShieldCom.351
Fighting KnifeCom.51
FlailCom.101
LascutterRare602
MaulCom.51
PolearmCom.102
Power KnifeRare201
Power SwordRare351
Servo ClawRare201
Shock BatonRare251
Shock StaveRare301
Spider-RigCom.502
SwordCom.101
Two-handed axeCom.152
Two-handed hammerCom.202
Two-handed swordCom.152
Pistols
AutopistolCom.151
BoltpistolRare601
Combi-Laspistol/GravpistolRare801
Combi-Laspistol/MeltapistolRare1151
Combi-Laspistol/PlasmapistolRare651
Combi-Laspistol/RadpistolRare551
Hand FlamerRare601
GravpistolRare801
LaspistolCom.151
Master-Crafted Laspistol (Status Item)Rare201
Las Sub-CarbineCom.201
Master-Crafted Las Sub-Carbine (Status Item)Rare251
Plasma pistolRare801
Rad pistolCom.551
StubgunCom.101
Basic Weapons
AutogunCom.202
LasgunCom.202
Master-Crafted Lasgun (Status Item)Rare252
LascarbineCom.252
Master-Crafted Lascarbine (Status Item)Rare352
Sawn-off shotgun (scatter shot)Com.202
Shotgun (Solid & Scatter Ammo)Com.402
Suppression LaserCom.502
Master-Crafted Suppression Laser (Status Item)Rare652
Special Weapons
AutosluggerCom.452
BoltgunRare1102
FlamerRare902
Grav-gunRare1352
Long lasCom.502
MeltagunRare1402
PlasmagunRare1402
Rad BeamerCom.802
Rad GunCom.802
Heavy Weapons
Heavy StubberCom.1203
LascannonRare2403
Multi-LaserRare1853
Multi-MeltaRare2403
Plasma CannonRare2153
RadcannonCom.1103


WARGEARRarityCost
Additional Ammunition
Rad Rounds ( Auto, Bolt, Shotgun, Stub )Rare10
Armour
Suits
Carapace Armour
– Light
Rare60
Flak ArmourCom.5
Hazard SuitRare15
Mesh ArmourRare15
Layers
Armoured BodygloveRare25
Servo Harness
– Partial
Rare80
Stimulant BodygloveRare15
Field Armour
Conversion Field (Status Item)Rare40
Displacer Field (Status Item)Rare50
Refractor Field (Status Item)Rare35
Bionics
Cortex-Cogitator
– Improved
– Superior

Rare
Rare

20
40
Cyberteknika
Cranial Cyberteknika
AlphaSpecial20
GammaSpecial35
OmegaSpecial50
Motive Cyberteknika
AlphaSpecial20
GammaSpecial30
OmegaSpecial40
Ocular Cyberteknika
AlphaSpecial35
GammaSpecial55
OmegaSpecial75
Syndextrous Cyberteknika
AlphaSpecial20
GammaSpecial35
OmegaSpecial50
Torsonic Cyberteknika
AlphaSpecial40
GammaSpecial55
OmegaSpecial100
Vascular Cyberteknika
AlphaSpecial20
GammaSpecial40
OmegaSpecial60
Gang Equipment
Archaeo-RelicRare80
Energy SinkRare60
Rad CanistersCom.40
Rad Cannon EmplacementCom.100
Thermal MineRare70
Grenades
Anti-Plant GrenadesRare10
Frag GrenadesCom.10
Krak GrenadesRare25
Melta BombsRare30
Photon Flash GrenadesRare10
Plasma GrenadesRare30
Rad GrenadesCom.10
Smoke GrenadesCom.10
Stun GrenadesRare10
Personal Equipment
Bio-BoosterRare25
Bio-ScannerRare20
Drop RigCom.5
Filter PlugsCom.10
Grav ChuteRare30
Grav CutterCom.35
MagnocularsRare15
MicrobeadRare5
Photo gogglesRare30
RespiratorCom.15
Signal JammerRare15
Strip KitCom.10
Status Items
Exotic Beasts
Cyberachnid (Status Item)Rare50
Servo-Skulls
Medi-Skull (Status Item)Rare55
Sensor Skull (Status Item)Rare60
Weapon Accessory
Focusing CrystalRare15
Hot Shot Power PackRare15
Infra-sight †Rare25
Las-projectorRare25
Mono-sight †Rare25
SuspensorRare60
Telescopic SightCom.20



House Van Saar Rare Trade Table

Instead of rolling on the Rare Trade or Black Market charts, a Van Saar Leader or Champion may roll on this chart instead – representing the items the Clan House’s affiliated merchants supply (or what they invent in their forge). In addition, for every 10 Reputation a gang has, they may roll once on the table during each post-battle sequence whether a Leader or Champion rolls on the table, or not.

The items you determine represent what the traders are willing to offer the gang (or your fighters are able to create), and may be bought by the gang if you can afford them and you choose to do so. Items are put into the Stash and may be given to any eligible fighter (see the House Equipment List).

D66Van Saar Rare Item
11-16Close Combat Weapon:, Roll a D6:
1-2: Combat Weapons – Roll a D6:
1-2: Chain Sword; 3-4: Lascutter, 5-6: Servo-Claw
3-4: Artificer Weapons – Roll a D6:
1-2: D3 Digi-Lasers; 3: Power Knife, 4: Power Sword; 5: Shock Baton; 6: Shock Stave
21-26Ranged Weapon
1-2: Pistol, roll a D6:
1: Boltpistol;
2: Combi-pistol, roll D6: [1: Combi-Laspistol/Gravpistol; 2-3: Combi-Laspistol/Meltapistol; 4-5: Combi-Laspistol/Plasmapistol; 6: Combi-Laspistol/Rad pistol];
3: Hand Flamer;
4: Master-Crafted Laspistol;
5: Master-Crafted Las-Sub Carbine;
6: Roll a D6: [1-2: Gravpistol, 3-6: Plasmapistol]
3-4: Basic Weapons, roll a D6:
1-2: Master-Crafted Lascarbine;
3-4: Master-Crafted Lasgun;
5-6: Master-Crafted Suppression Laser
5: Special Weapon, roll a D6:
1: Boltgun; 2: Flamer; 3: Grav Gun; 4: Meltagun; 5: Plasmagun; 6: Webgun;
6: Heavy Weapon, roll a D6:
1: Gravcannon; 2: Lascannon, 3-4: Multi-Laser; 5: Multi-Melta; 6: Plasma Cannon
31-33Weapon Accesssories – Roll D6:
1-3: Additional Ammunition: Rad Rounds
4-6: Weapon Accessory – Roll D6: 1: Focusing Crystal; 2: Hot Shot Power Pack; 3: Infra-sight; 4: Las-Projector; 5: Mono-Sight; 6: Suspensor
34-36Armour – Roll D6:
1-2: Field – Roll a D6:
1-2: Conversion Field; 3-4: Displacer Field; 5-6: Refractor Field
3-4: Layer – Roll a D6:
1-2 Armoured Bodyglove; 3-4: Partial Servo Harness; 5-6: Stimulant Bodyglove
5-6: Suit – Roll a D6:
1-2: Hazard Suit; 3-4: Mesh Armour; 5-6: Light Carapace Armour
41-43Gang Equipment
1-2: Archaeo-Relic; 3-4: Energy Sink; 5-6: Thermal Mine
44-46Grenades
1: Anti-Plant Grenades, 2: Krak Grenades, 3: Melta Bombs, 4: Photon Flash Grenades, 5: Plasma Grenades, 6: Stun Grenades
51-56Personal Equipment – Roll a D6:
1: Fighter Equipment, Roll a D6:
1: Bio-booster; 2: Grav Chute; 3-4: Microbeads; 5-6: Photo-Goggles;
2: Scanning Equipment, Roll a D6:
1-2: Bio-Scanner; 3-4: Magnoculars; 5-6: Signals Jammer
3-4: Bionics, Roll a D6: 1-3: Improved Cortex Cogitator; 4-6: Superior Cortex Cogitator;
5-6: Status Items, Roll a D6: 1-2: Cyberarchnid; 3-4: Medi-Skull, 5-6: Sensor Skull
61-64Clan Hanger-On – Roll a D6:
1-2: Cogitator Core Servitor; 3-4: Data-Scrvener; 5-6: Tech Merchant
65-66Clan Brutes
If you have space and are able to afford them, you may buy an Arachni-Rig Servo Suit to upgrade one of your fighters.



House Van Saar Tactics

Players make a deck using the rules for Tactics Cards, comprised of 12 one-star cards, 12 two-star cards and 12 three-star cards. A printable Van Saar Tactic Deck is here.

NameRatingConditionDecription
Arachni-Ropes (HoA)*Play this gang tactic at he start of the battle, after both sides have deployed, but before the first round.For the duration of this battle, D6 friendly fighters of your choice in your starting crew count as being equipped with a grav-chute (make a note of this on the chosen fighters’ fighter cards)
Blood Debt⁽B⁾*Play this card when one of your fighters is taken Out of Action by an enemy fighter’s attack.For the rest of the battle, add 1 to the result of any hit rolls for fighters from your gang when they target the attacker. Tuck this card under the attacker’s Fighter card as a reminder.
With Blast weapons, you only get the +1 to hit bonus if the Blast marker is centred on them.
Blood Cleansers(V)*Play at the start of any turn.For the duration of the round, all friendly models count their Toughness as 1 higher when affected by weapons with the Toxin or Gas traits.
Cortical Stimulants(V)*Play at the start of the game, after deployment.One fighter in your gang automatically passes Intelligence checks for the duration of the battle.
Counter- Assault(U)*Play this card when one of your fighters makes a Reaction attack.The fighter’s Reaction attacks are made at +1 to Hit.
In addition, they automatically pass the Initiative check required to make Reaction attacks against disengaging enemies.
Frag Trap⁽B⁾*Play this gang tactic instead of activating a fighterPlace a frag trap, marker anywhere within 2″ of one of your fighters. When triggered, roll a D6. On a 4+, it is a Real Trap.
Grenade Bouquet(U)*Play this card when a fighter makes an attack with a grenade that has a Blast trait.The fighter may immediately make three attacks with this type of grenade, rather than the usual one – centred on the same spot. Each of these attacks counts as a miss and so will automatically scatter.

Once all three attacks are resolved, the fighter will automatically fail the Ammo check and run out of grenades of that type for the battle.
Hidden Passage⁽B⁾*Play this card at the start of your turn, immediately before activating a fighter.Place an unused Ductway marker or Hatch anywhere on the board, following the normal rules for placing a ductway or terrain.
Last Round(U)*Play this card when activating a fighter that has one or more Out of Ammo markers on them.Choose one of this fighter’s ranged weapons that is Out of Ammo.

The fighter immediately performs a Shoot (Basic) action with that weapon that will hit automatically. Do not roll an Ammo Dice – the weapon remains Out of Ammo. Weapons with the Rapid Fire (X) trait make only one shot.
Lucky Find⁽B⁾*Play this card when activating a fighter with a weapon that is Out of Ammo.One of the fighter’s weapons is automatically reloaded at the cost of one action – no Ammo check is required. This can be used for weapons and ammunition with the Scarce profile, but not Grenades and weapons or ammunition with the Single Shot trait.
Makeshift Cover(U)*Play this card at the start of any round.Place D3 barricades or similar pieces of terrain anywhere on the battlefield within 3” of one of your fighter
Makeshift Armour⁽B⁾*One of your fighters can spend an action to play this card.Tuck this card under the fighter’s card; while it is there, their armour save is treated as one point better than it is.

If any save roll for the fighter is a 1 (before modifiers), discard this card after resolving the attack(s).
Medical Protocols(V)*Play at the start of any End phase.For the duration of this End phase, when any fighter assists a friendly fighter’s Recovery test, roll an extra Injury dice, then choose one to keep.
Melta Trap⁽B⁾*Play this gang tactic instead of activating a fighterPlace a melta trap, marker anywhere within 2″ of one of your fighters. When triggered, roll a D6. On a 4+, it is a Real Trap.
Ricochet⁽G⁾*Play this card after making an unsuccessful hit roll for a ranged attack that does not have the Blast or Template trait.Pick another fighter within 5’’ of the target, even if they are not visible to the attacker, and roll to hit against them. Do not roll the Firepower dice again.
Rigged Door⁽B⁾*Play this card immediately after an enemy fighter makes an action. Note: Battles with doors only.Pick any door on the board and either close or open it. If closing a door and there is a fighter standing in the doorway, they must test to see whether they avoid closing door as normal. Pick any door on the board and either close or open it. If closing a door and there is a fighter standing in the doorway, they must test to see whether they avoid closing door as normal.
Security Override (HoA)*If your gang is the attacker, play this gang tactic during the Priority phase of any round, after Roll for Priority, but before Ready Fighters. If your gang is not the attacker, discard this card and select another.Every closed door on the battlefield immediately opens. Every locked door on the battlefield immediately unlocks and opens. Every door terminal on the battlefield immediately ceases to function (and may be removed). If there are fewer than three doors on the battlefield, you may discard this gang tactic and select another.
Shut-in (HoA)*If your gang is defender, play this gang tactic during the Priority phase of any round, after Roll for Priority. If your gang is not the defender, discard this gang tactic and select another.Every open door on the battlefield immediately closes. Every door on the battlefield that has a door terminal becomes locked. Every closed door that does not have a door terminal becomes locked, and can only be opened by force, either by targeting them with attacks or by performing a Force Door (basic) action against them. If there are fewer than three doors on the battlefield, you may discard this gang tactic and select another.
Slippery (V)*Play this card when activating a fighter.Put this card under the active fighter’s Fighter card. Until the end of the battle, this fighter treats the Crawl Through action as (Basic) rather than (Double), and g ains +2 to any Initiative test to make a Retreat action
Spreading Conflagration(U)*Play this card at the start of any round.For the duration of this round, fighters activating within 3” of a fighter that is subject to the Blaze condition must test to see if they catch fire, just as if they had been hit by a weapon with the Blaze trait.

If the fighter subject to Blaze activates first, all fighters within 3” must test to see if they catch fire.
Stairs Trap (ZM)*Play this gang tactic Instead of activating a fighterChoose a set of Stars anywhere on the battlefield. All fighters on the chosen Stairs immediately fall (place them within 2″ of the foot of the Stairs in an order chosen by the player whose gang tactic this is). The fighters are then Pinned and suffer damage from falling as normal
Sump Slump(V)*Play at the start of any turn.Immediately remove D3 Barricades of your choice from anywhere on the board.
Trip Wire (ZM)*Play this gang tactic when an enemy fighter ascends or descends a ladder or StairsOnce the enemy fighter completes their Move action, they become Pinned. They may fall.
Underhive Gloom (ZM)*Play this gang tactic at the start of the battle. after both crews have been deployedFor the duration of this battle, the hit rolls for ranged attacks made through open doorways or against fighters on a different level to the attacker suffer an additional -2 modifier to the to hit roll.
A Present for You(WD)**Play this card when your opponent activates one of their fighters, even if the fighter was activated as part of a Group Activation.Centre the 3″ blast marker on the fighter who has just activated, then roll the Scatter dice and a D6 to see where the marker moves to. If a Hit is rolled on the Scatter dice, the marker remains where it is.

Roll a D6 to determine what kind of Traits the Blast has: [1-2 Concussion, 3-4 Flash, 5-6 Fear, Gas).

Any fighters under the marker immediately suffer a hit with the Trait(s) listed.
Ablative Mesh (HoA)**Play this gang tactic when a friendly Van Saar fighter suffers a hit from any weapon with a Strrength characteristc other than ‘-‘Treat this hit as having been caused by a weapon with the Knockback trait, but do not resolve the hit itself. Instead, the hit is discarded.
Ambush Alley (ZM)**Play this gang tactic when an enemy fighter performs the Operate Door (Simple), Access Terminal (Basic) or Force Door (Basic) actionAfter the enemy fighter completes the action, choose a friendly fighter with line of sight to that enemy fighter. The friendly fighter may immediately perform a free Shoot (Basic) action. If the enemy fighter is still Standing and Active, they may perform a second action (if they have not done so already).
Auto-Healer(V)**Play this card at the start of any End phase.Choose one Seriously Injured fighter. Rather than rolling the Injury dice, you can choose to have the fighter suffer a Flesh Wound and become Pinned.
Beast Repellent(U)**Play this card when activating a fighter.For the duration of this round, the fighter does not risk rousing a Beast’s Lair, regardless of how close they are to the Beast’s Lair, nor may they be charged or attacked in close combat by any Exotic Beast, Brute or Underhive Horror for the duration of this round.
Bullet Magnet(U)**Play this card when a fighter fires a weapon with the Rapid Fire trait.Add 1 to the number of hits rolled on each Firepower dice. If firing two weapons with the Rapid Fire (X) trait (for example, two sidearms with the trait), add 1 to both weapon’s Firepower dice.
Combat Drugs(V)**Play when a fighter makes a melee attack.Until the end of this Round, the fighter gains D3 additional attacks. However, should the fighter gain the full 3 additional attacks, they will automatically suffer a Flesh Wound at the end of their activation.
Data Mining (HoA)**Play this gang tactic at the start of the battle, after both sides have deployed, but before the first round.Your opponent must immediately reveal to you their remaining unplayed gang tactics. After reading your opponent’s gang tactics, choose one. Your opponent must immediately discard the chosen gang tactic and randomly select another.
Emergency Repulsors (ZM)**Play this gang tactic when a friendly fighter falls or jumps down from a ledge, but before working out the effects of the fall or jumpPlace a 5″ Blast marker anywhere on the battlefield and leave it in place for the remainder of this round. Fighters falling or jumping down onto this marker take no damage and are not Pinned.
Enhanced Auspexes(V)**Play instead of activating a fighter.For the remainder of the round, friendly fighters may fire through line of sight blocking terrain such as doors and barricades, but NOT through any impassable terrain. These shots suffer a -2 penalty to hit and the target’s armour save is increased by 1.
Enhanced Cyberteknika (HoA)**Play this gang tactic at the start of the Deployment step of the pre-battle sequence, before any fighters have been deployed.For the duration of this battle, any fighter equipped with a piece of Cyberteknika treats that piece of Cyberteknika as being of the next level up. For example,a fighter equipped with a piece of Alpha Cyberteknika counts as being equipped with the Gamma equivalent for the dration of the battle. Fihgters equipped with Omega-level Cyberteknika gain no benefit.
Fall Back(V)**Play this card when activating a fighter.This fighter may immediately make a Retreat (Basic) action without having to make an Initiative check. Additionally, each enemy fighter that was Engaging them is unable to make any Reaction attacks.
Hyper Auto-Loader(V)**Play when a fighter makes a ranged attack.If the fighter is using a weapon with the Rapid Fire trait, they may roll 2 extra Firepower dice. After working out the effects of the shot, their ranged weapon automatically counts as having failed an Ammo check, regardless of the results of the Firepower dice.
Improvised Cover (ZM)**Play this gang tactic Instead of activating a fighterYou may immediately place a barricade anywhere within 2” of one of your fighters
Last Gasp⁽B⁾**Play this card when one of your active fighters is taken Out of Action.Before the fighter is removed from play, they can immediately make an attack. This is a close combat attack if they are Engaged, otherwise it is a ranged attack. If they are equipped with a grenade that has the Blast trait, and the Blast marker is centred on them, it will not scatter. As soon as the attack has been resolved, the fighter is removed from play.
Lockdown (ZM)**Play this gang tactic at the start of any Action phaseAll doors on the battlefield close if they are open, and then become locked
Longshot (HoA)**Play this gang tactic when a friendly Van Saar fighter makes a Shoot (Basic) action, before rolling any dice.For the duration of their action, this fighter’s BS is 2+. In addition, for the duration of this action, the fighter ignores all negative modifiers that may apply to their hit rolls. However, after resolving their attack, the weapon is immediately Out of Ammo.
Lucky Shot**Play this card after making either a hit roll, a wound roll or an injury roll.You may immediately re-roll all of the dice for the roll you have just made. You must accept the result of the second roll, even if it is worse than the first.
Machine Curse(U)**Play this card instead of activating a fighter.Choose an enemy fighter. They must immediately make an Ammo check of each of their ranged weapons.
Medical Intervention (HoA)**Play this gang tactic during any End Phase, before making Recovery tests.Choose one Seriously Injured friendly Van Saar fighter. Do not make a Recovery text for this fighter. Instead, this fighter immediately recovers, exactly as if a Flesh Wound result had been rolled for them.
Mesh Underlay(V)**Play when a fighter is hit by a ranged attack.For the remainder of the battle, the chosen fighter’s armour saves are not modified by AP when hit by a ranged attack.
Nerves of Steel(V)**Play when a fighter makes a ranged attack.The fighter may ignore normal Target Priority rules and may instead target any eligible enemy fighter they wish without having to pass a Wp check.
Pneumatic Injectors(V)**Play when a fighter makes a melee attack.For the duration of the fighter’s activation, one of their melee weapons increases its Strength by 2.
Power Up (HoA)**Play this gang tactic when a friendly Van Saar fighter makes an attack using any form of lasweapon.For the duration of this action, the Strength characteristic of the weapon is doubled.
Rad-clouds (HoA)**Play this gang tactic at the start of the battle, after both sides have deployed, bt before the first round.Place D3 markers anywhere on the battlefield more than 6” away from any enemy fighters. These markers represent pockets of radiation. Roll a D6 for any friendly fighter, friend or foe, that ends their activation within 3” of the centre of one of these markers. On a 5 or 6, or a 6 if they belong to House Van Saar, that fighter immediately suffers a Flesh Wound. At the start of each End Phase, roll a D6 for each marker. On a 1, he marker is removed.
Rapid Fire**Play this card when activating a fighter.This fighter can perform a free Shoot (Basic) action during its activation. This free action is in addition to its two normal actions.
Rapid Healing**Play this card instead of activating a fighter. Choose one of your fighters.This fighter either recovers one Wound or removes one Flesh Wound.
Rapid Targeting**Play this card when activating a fighter.This turn, the fighter may make two Fire (Basic) actions, provide they use the same weapon for both and make no other actions for any reason. However, at the end of their activation, the weapon counts as automatically having failed an Ammo check.
Reckless Charge**Play this card when a fighter makes a Charge (Double) action.The fighter may add its full Movement to its standard move rather than the usual half; however the fighter suffers -1 to hits during this activation.
Rejuve Stimm(U)**Play this card instead of activating a fighter.Choose any friendly fighter who has suffered at least one Wound. This fighter immediately regains any lost Wounds.
Reload!(U)**Play this card in the End phase of any round.Immediately make a Reload (Simple) action for any or all of your fighters. Single-Shot, Grenade and Scarce weapons cannot be reloaded.
Sacrifice(U)**Play this card when a fighter is hit by a ranged attack.Nominate a friendly fighter within 2” of the fighter who has been hit. The nominated fighter becomes the target of the ranged attack instead. Rapid fire shots may not be spread onto the original target.
Speedy Recovery**Play this card when making a Recovery test.One of your fighters can re-roll a single Recovery dice.
Stand Firm**Play this card instead of making a Bottle test.This round, your gang automatically passes its Bottle test.
Unstable Energy(U)**Play this card when an enemy fighter armed with a las, plasma or melta weapon of any type makes an attack with that weapon.For the remainder of this round, all enemy weapons of the same type (las, plasma or melta) gain the Unstable trait if they do not already have it. If they already have the Unstable trait, they gain the Scarce trait.
Wall Breach (ZM)**Play this gang tactic when a friendly fighter makes a ranged attackThe fighter can choose targets that are out of their line of sight, provided they are not using a weapon with the Template or Blast (X) traits. Attacks against these targets suffer a -2 modifier to their hit roll.
Weakened Physiology (HoA)**Play this gang tactic during any End phase, before your opponent makes any Recovery testsChoose one Seriously Injured fighter belonging to the enemy gang. Your opponent must roll one extra Injury dice when making a Recovery test for this fighter. In addition, you may choose which Injury dice result is resolved and which are discarded
Weapon Drill (HoA)**Play this gang tactic at the start of the battle, after both sides have deployed, before the first round.For the duration of this battle you may reroll any rolls of a natural 1 when making Ammo checks.
…Click⁽B⁾***Play this card after an enemy fighter completes an attack with a ranged weapon.The weapon immediately runs Out of Ammo, as if it had failed an Ammo check. A Scarce-trait weapon will be out of ammunition for the rest of the battle. An Unstable-trait weapon will potentially overheat.
Ammo Dump (HoA)***Play this gang tactic at the start of the Deployment step of the pre-battle sequence, before any fighters have been deployed.Place an additional Ammo crate anywhere on the battlefield. Any fighter that activates within 3” of this Ammo Crate that is not Seriously Injured and that has a weapon that is Out of Ammo may immediately make a free Reload (simple) action. A fighter can make this action even if they would normally be unable to do so, for example, if an Out of Ammo weapon has the Scarce trait.
Ancient Vox Box (WD)***Play this card when activating a fighter.When this card is played, decide how many times the activating fighter will turn the crank (one to three times). Roll that many D6, add the results together and consult below (effects last until the end of the current Round):

1-4 Grating Harmony: All fighters within 12” reduce their Cool and Willpower checks by -2.
5-8 Jaunty Tune: All fighters within 12″ add 1 to their Movement
9-12 Clanking Cacophony: No fighter within 18″ may be the target of Gang Tactics or Skills.
13+ Jack in the Box: All fighters (including the activating fighter) within 12″ must make a Nerve test or become Broken.
Bait and Switch***Play this card instead of activating a fighter.Take a Ready marker from any of your fighters and place it on a fighter who has already activated this round.
Bodyguard (HoA)***Play this gang tactic at the start of the Deployment step of the pre-battle sequence, before any fighters have been deployed.One fighter with the Gang Fighter (X) special rule belonging to your gang that is not part of your starting crew may be added to your starting crew. Nominate a Leader or Champion within your crew. For the duration of this battle, e chosen fGang Fighter (x) follows the rules for Exotic Beasts, as if they were owned by chosen Leader or Champion.
Comm Burst(V)***Play at the start of any turn.For this round, your gang’s Leader can make Rally actions for Broken fighters anywhere on the board. In addition, the range of Leading by Example is increased to 18’’ for Leaders and 12’’ for Champions.
Dangerous Footing(V)***Play when your opponent activates a fighter.Immediately place a Pitfall Crater marker beneath the fighter. The fighter must take an Initiative test. If the test is passed, the fighter makes a Move action to safety and their activation continues. If the Initiative test is failed, the fighter falls into the crater and falls according to the rules for Pitfalls. The pitfall Crater remains in place for the duration of the battle. This tactic does not affect fighters on mounts, or mounts.
Defensive Protocols (HoA)***Play this gang tactic when a Leader or Champion belonging to your gang is hit by a ranged attack, before the hit is resolved.You may choose to transfer the hit and all of its effects onto any friendly fighter with the Gang fighter (X) special rule that is within 2” of the Leader or champion that was hit.
Double Time***Play this card when activating a fighter.This fighter can perform a free Move (Simple) action during its activation. This free action is in addition to its two normal actions.
Experimental Rig(V)***Play at the start of the game, after both sides have deployed.Choose a weapon possessed by a friendly fighter. For the duration of the game, this weapon increases its Long range by 6’’ and its Strength by 1, but loses the Plentiful trait if it has it, and gains the Scarce trait if it doesn’t have it.
Feigned Nobility (HoA)***Play this gang tactic at the start of the Deployment step of the pre-battle sequence, before any fighters have been deployed.Your gang may be joined by a Master Charlatan. This fighter will leave the gang at the end of this battle. This fighter is not counted towards your maximum crew size – they are taken in addition to your starting crew. If you do not have a model available to represent this fighter, you may discard this gang tactic and select another. If this fighter is taken Out of Action, every friendly fighter suffers a -2 modifier to their Cool for the remainder of this battle. Additionally, your gang subtracts D6x10 from any Profit it makes in the post-battle sequence, and the gang that takes the Master Charlatan Out of Action adds D6x10 credits to its Profit.
From Below (ZM)***Play this gang tactic after rolling for Reinforcements but before placing reinforcement fighters on the battlefieldFriendly fighters arriving via the Reinforcement rules can be deployed anywhere on the battlefield, as long as they are deployed within 2″ of a Floor Hatch, Ductway, Pipe or Vent, and more than 6” away from an Enemy fighter.
Group Tactics⁽B⁾***Play this card when it is your turn, before activating any fighters.Instead of activating one fighter, activate up to three fighters (in the same way as making a Group activation).
Hidden Vent (ZM)***Play this gang tactic when a friendly fighter performs Move (Simple) action.During their movement, this fighter may pass through Impassable terrain, provided they end their movement with no part of their base within the Impassable terrain.
Hive Tremors⁽W⁾***Play at the start of any round.Every Active fighter on the table must make an Initiative test – any who fail are Pinned (Fighters who are flying, in flyers, levitating, or using the Levitation psychic power ignore the Tremor.)
After all fighters have tested, place D3 additional loot caskets anywhere on the table not within 6’’ of a fighter.
Finally, place D3 spare ductways or hatches anywhere on the battle.
Lucky Ricochet (ZM)***Play this gang tactic when a friendly fighter hits with a ranged attack, and their target was within 2″ of an obstacle or structure.After working out the effects of the hit, and if the hit fighter has not been removed from play, roll a D6. On a 1-3, the fighter is hit by a Stray Shot from the same weapon.
Overcharge(V)***Play when a fighter makes a ranged attack.For the duration of the fighter’s activation, one of their Las or Plasma ranged weapons increases its Strength by 2.
Rat Warren (ZM)***Play this gang tactic after your opponent activates one of their fightersIf the fighter they have just activated does not have line of sight to any friendly fighters, they must make an Intelligence check.

If this check is failed, you may place that fighter anywhere within 6” of their current location. You may not place that fighter within 3” of any of your ,fighters. The fighter’s activation then ends.
Seize the Initiative (V)***Play this card at the beginning of any round, before rolling for Priority.You immediately take Priority this turn without any dice being rolled. YAQ: if several players play the Seize the Initiative tactics card during the same round, the cards are discarded and have no effect.
Take the Initiative***Play this card at the start of the round before rolling for PriorityYour gang has Priority this round. If multiple gangs play this card then they must roll off to see who has Priority as normal.
Tracer Fire (HoA)***Play this gang tactic during the Priority phase of any round, after Roll for Priority, but before Ready FightersFor the duration of this round, any fighter that performs a Shoot (X) action as part of a Group Activation adds a +1 modifier to their Ballistic Skill for the duration of their activation.
Unexpected Allies (HoA)***Play this gang tactic at the start of the Deployment step of the pre-battle sequence, before any fighters have been deployed.Your gang may immediately recruit up to three Subteks. These fighters are recruited for free but will leave the gang at the end of this battle. Each Subtek is armed with flak armour and either a laspistol and maul, or two laspistols. These fighters are not counted towards your maximum crew value – they are taken in addition to your starting crew. If you do not have models available to represent these fighters, you may discard this gang tactic and select another.
Warforge(V)***Play at the start of the game, after both sides have deployed.For the duration of this battle, all friendly models add a +1 modifier to any Ammo checks they are required to take.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
6,128
6,307
193
Norway
For rad-phage immunity, I made a different change that's universal to all immunities: Re-roll! It's universal because it also works with 2d6 rolls like insanity. Immunity is a bad game design imo, sometimes they don't matter at all, other times they can make a game extremely unbalanced in niche situations.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
6,128
6,307
193
Norway
Immunity goes further than that:
  • Insanity: Corrupted gangs, Chaos (some fighters), Cyberteknika (Cranial), Tech (Mental Mastery)
  • Nerve/Broken: Cyberteknika (Cranial)
  • Rad-phage: Van Saar (Protective Gear, armoured bodyglove
  • Toxin: Creature of Shadows
  • Blaze: Respirator (Industrial), Fire Shield (Pyromancy)
  • Gas: Creature of Shadows, Respirator (Industrial)
  • Insanity: Malefic Artefact (Terrox Telepathica), Articles of Faith (Piety: Blazing Faith)
There are some additional immunities which are less problmeatic or harder to solve, like immunity to being targeted by tactics, psychic powers, intoxication etc. Or more obscure immunities like some scenario characters/monsters having immunity to coup de grace or being seriously injured.
 

mateyboy3000

Gang Champion
May 29, 2017
275
280
63
The industrial respirator gas immunity is completely justified, its one round of sealed air from a tank like an astronaut in space (its no good if that's a reroll to avoid suffocation). The others a reroll wouldn't break it I don't think
 
  • Like
Reactions: BearsWillEatYou

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
1,338
2,277
153
Edinburgh, UK
Immunity goes further than that:
  • Insanity: Corrupted gangs, Chaos (some fighters), Cyberteknika (Cranial), Tech (Mental Mastery)
  • Nerve/Broken: Cyberteknika (Cranial)
  • Rad-phage: Van Saar (Protective Gear, armoured bodyglove
  • Toxin: Creature of Shadows
  • Blaze: Respirator (Industrial), Fire Shield (Pyromancy)
  • Gas: Creature of Shadows, Respirator (Industrial)
  • Insanity: Malefic Artefact (Terrox Telepathica), Articles of Faith (Piety: Blazing Faith)
There are some additional immunities which are less problmeatic or harder to solve, like immunity to being targeted by tactics, psychic powers, intoxication etc. Or more obscure immunities like some scenario characters/monsters having immunity to coup de grace or being seriously injured.
And if you take a perusal, you'll see I have done things to most, although I think with some immunities the base rule is justiable - be it because they are so expensive or otherwise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TopsyKretts

Casus

Ganger
Yak Comp 1st Place
Aug 17, 2014
95
415
98
Toronto, Canada
Not going to get into arguing here, but we adopted T2 Van Saar in our campaigns and it "fixed" a lot of the balance issues with that gang. (Also: nerf the cyberarachnid).

Our two Van Saar players are still going strong, and the rest of our players no longer loathe matches with them. Win : win as far as I'm concerned.

Highly recommended.
 

Daganisoraan

Ganger
Oct 25, 2021
80
77
28
Not going to get into arguing here, but we adopted T2 Van Saar in our campaigns [...]
Do they still have better BS and do they focus way more on shooting than close combat? My reasonning with T2 was that while yes Van Saar would focus a bit more on ranged combat as usual, from their point of view at least T2 and T3 shouldn't change their strategies since their getting their butts kicked both vs long range weapons and close range weapons.

Not looking to arguee per se, but rather to have more info on your changes and its impact.
 

Thunderch1ld

Juve
Honored Tribesman
Aug 21, 2018
12
15
38
Otterbourne, Winchester SO21 2EX, UK
I'd agree with Squee and suggest that VS are actually very well balanced on the whole. They're great at shooting, but there are ways to counter that. In particular; they don't have access to any basic or special weapons with range greater than 24" at the start (I've been out-sniped on range by both cawdor and delaque), and there are of course smoke grenades and pitch black; which aren't going to be 100% effective if there are infra-sights or ocular cyberteknika in the mix, but it will usually knock out half of their shooting.

In my mind the reason why Van Saar seem overpowered is because their poor movement is very rarely an issue, because any scenarios that require movement, or capturing objectives, or getting off the other side of the board etc can just as easily be won by standing in place and shooting it out until someone bottles. Until GW realise this and offer some more scenarios that force gangs to get out to objectives and actually move, it'll be up to arbitrators to do something about it. I know that there are some ideas floating around online, but some that stuck out to me are those that restrict loot (win or lose) to only those gangers that actually got out there and grabbed it, or where a scenario expects gangers to get off a particular table edge with loot - make it so that those holding them at the end of the scenario still get the loot (or at least deny it from a victorious gun-line VS gang). Unless it's one of the simpler scenarios, standing behind cover and shooting should not be the way to get the most rewards from the scenario.

In short, force VS to move, get out of cover and play the mission, and you'll realise they aren't all they're cracked up to be.
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
1,338
2,277
153
Edinburgh, UK
I'd agree with Squee and suggest that VS are actually very well balanced on the whole. They're great at shooting, but there are ways to counter that. In particular; they don't have access to any basic or special weapons with range greater than 24" at the start (I've been out-sniped on range by both cawdor and delaque), and there are of course smoke grenades and pitch black; which aren't going to be 100% effective if there are infra-sights or ocular cyberteknika in the mix, but it will usually knock out half of their shooting.

In my mind the reason why Van Saar seem overpowered is because their poor movement is very rarely an issue, because any scenarios that require movement, or capturing objectives, or getting off the other side of the board etc can just as easily be won by standing in place and shooting it out until someone bottles. Until GW realise this and offer some more scenarios that force gangs to get out to objectives and actually move, it'll be up to arbitrators to do something about it. I know that there are some ideas floating around online, but some that stuck out to me are those that restrict loot (win or lose) to only those gangers that actually got out there and grabbed it, or where a scenario expects gangers to get off a particular table edge with loot - make it so that those holding them at the end of the scenario still get the loot (or at least deny it from a victorious gun-line VS gang). Unless it's one of the simpler scenarios, standing behind cover and shooting should not be the way to get the most rewards from the scenario.

In short, force VS to move, get out of cover and play the mission, and you'll realise they aren't all they're cracked up to be.

But I think your central paragraph explains why they aren't very well balanced - for the actual game as written. Now maybe they don't need to be balanced, but they should at least pay more per fighter as written.

Maybe if every game had a 50/50 chance of pitch black, or other sight removing mechanics, and/or gangs failed if they didn't move and claim objectives - the game would be totally different, it wouldn't give a (+15 credit-per-fighter) carapace armour, 3+/2+/1+ shooting gunline a chance.

I'd just recommend you flip leader and champion bs and ws to 3+/3+, and increase movement to 5; maybe do more with gangers' 3+ bs - reduce it to 4+, increase their movement and initiative as an exchange. Finally make the armoured undersuit aspect fo their body glove something they pay for, because I just don't see how a 25credit piece of wargear is factored into SG's costs. It could be 15 credits if you like just to sweeten the deal for them, but really should be +25... 😂

Just do anything to remove that cul-de-sac of slow/stationary highly accurate shooting turtles the gang currently is - while players might be annoyed at first, it just makes the gang so much better to play and face :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thunderch1ld