N18 Van Saar nerf, lower toughness?

Stompzilla

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Jan 11, 2013
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I think you'd like Necromunda a lot more if you played more Zone Mortalis games. Lots of corners to hide behind, no across the length of the board shooting and door management is a skill onto itself.

Admittedly it's quite an investment in terrain and time but it is quite cleverly constructed so that you can use it even on Sector mechanicus boards, so is generally, imo, worth it.
 
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Stompzilla

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Now back to enough terrain discussion. I used the sector mechanics stuff from SWA. And supplied with more boxes. Only ro find out it works poorly I would need much more.
View attachment 149011
You could improve that set up immensely with some barricades to break up those walkways a bit and then grab/ make some pipes and shipping containers, along with some boxes and barrels for scatter terrain for the ground level.

That really is a shooting gallery and I understand why Van-Saar gangs dominate so much in your gaming space if that's a typical set-up. 👍

In my group, it's a case of go Hip Shooting or go home with Van-Saar because their 4" move leads to them getting jumped and whooped quite often.
 

TopsyKretts

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I think you'd like Necromunda a lot more if you played more Zone Mortalis games. Lots of corners to hide behind, no across the length of the board shooting and door management is a skill onto itself.

Admittedly it's quite an investment in terrain and time but it is quite cleverly constructed so that you can use it even on Sector mechanicus boards, so is generally, imo, worth it.
I did like Necromunda a lot more after playing Zone Mortalis yes.
6-jpg.jpg

Good for ZM. Game is however advertised for SM and it sucks the game can't support both terrain systems equally.

And the argument for scenarios are independent of terrain. You don't have to move to win. In objective-focused games, you have to move to win.
 
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Stompzilla

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Even that ZM set up doesn't have enough terrain on it. More walls, doors and scatter terrain needed imo.

I have a list of scenarios that require movement to win and they were just one I've played recently.

If I was to go through the books, I could find loads more.

If you're using enough terrain, even the missions that require just fighting like Tunnel Skirmish still depend on movement and positioning.

I've won campaign games with barely a shot fired because I maneuverd so well that the opposing gang knew that their goose would be cooked when the shooting started.

Like I said previously, the Van-saar gang in my campaign uses, predominantly hip shooting as a skill because if they don't, they get out maneuvered, never get to shoot first, never make it to objectives on time, can't get away from Melee fighters creeping up on them etc.

Necromunda is not a balanced game and should be approached as such. It's best played with mega tons of terrain and the mindset that you're playing in an rpg imo. As a former competitive tournament player, it took me quite a bit of time to get out of that mindset and to really enjoy Necromunda for what it is - with a lot of frustration along the way.

Your absolutely right about kill team and other games but they are competitive games that tournaments work well for, so you're kind of comparing apples with orange, at least in my experience.

I feel I've made all the points, I needed to to make my case, so won't continue to hijack the thread with this side discussion anymore.

Thanks for the good faith discussion and the pictures, it's sincerely appreciated and such a rarity online these days. I need to learn how to put pictures on here (I'm such a luddite! 😄). Please note at no point am I trying to criticise, or put anyone down - I'm just sharing my experience and opinion on an effort to share hard won knowledge and if at any point there's a possibility of perceiving offence offered none was meant.
 

TopsyKretts

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Even that ZM set up doesn't have enough terrain on it. More walls, doors and scatter terrain needed imo.
More, more more... This is my 2nd attempt. It seems I will never have sufficient terrain to make Necromunda rules work :D

I started playing Necromunda when the standard offiical terrain looked like this:
necromunda_white_dwarf.jpg

It worked fairly well as far as I remember. The 2 tables of terrain I already built costs 100s of $/£ to purchase, weeks to build & paint, and as you say, it's far from enough and doesn't work well enough.
 
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TopsyKretts

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Necromunda is not a balanced game and should be approached as such. It's best played with mega tons of terrain and the mindset that you're playing in an rpg imo. As a former competitive tournament player, it took me quite a bit of time to get out of that mindset and to really enjoy Necromunda for what it is - with a lot of frustration along the way.
How is this compatible with the numerous "how to build my gang as strong as possible" discussions here and elsewhere?
 

Stompzilla

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How is this compatible with the numerous "how to build my gang as strong as possible" discussions here and elsewhere?
There are still some builds that are better than others. E.g. the aforementioned Van Saar build that primarily uses Hip Shooting plasma guns would be better than one that uses lasguns and leadership skills for e.g.

Just because it's not a well balanced game fit for tournaments doesn't mean there aren't some choices that are better than others. 👍
 

Stompzilla

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Jan 11, 2013
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More, more more... This is my 2nd attempt. It seems I will never have sufficient terrain to make Necromunda rules work :D

I started playing Necromunda when the standard offiical terrain looked like this:
View attachment 149041
It worked fairly well as far as I remember. The 2 tables of terrain I already built costs 100s of $/£ to purchase, weeks to build & paint, and as you say, it's far from enough and doesn't work well enough.
There is a surprising amount of places to hide with those buildings, due to the bulkheads.

I had that set (Still do actually, although it's a bit ragged from use now) and it was ace.
 

KA7777

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Jan 19, 2018
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@TopsyKretts

Buy a bag of off-brand Lego, assemble a bunch of rectangular "crates" and "boxes" and dump a handful on your board. Both pictures you've shared include nearly 0 scatter terrain.

If you want a game that doesn't need terrain, try X-Wing, I guess?
 
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enyoss

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More, more more... This is my 2nd attempt. It seems I will never have sufficient terrain to make Necromunda rules work :D

I started playing Necromunda when the standard offiical terrain looked like this:
View attachment 149041
It worked fairly well as far as I remember. The 2 tables of terrain I already built costs 100s of $/£ to purchase, weeks to build & paint, and as you say, it's far from enough and doesn't work well enough.

This terrain was never bettered! :D Well, Doritos tubes (a common sight) or Lynx cans (a rarity in some circles) bettered it as they made good LOS blockers in that smaller building hole, and but we can’t rely on Doritos and Lynx to fix all humankind’s problems.

FWIW though I do agree you need more terrain on that ZM board. I spy at least 3 fire lanes which would be a pig fighting against Van Saar (or anyone else who wanted to stay put and bore you into suicidal charges). I wouldn’t rely on doors either, just more winding corridors. The TT combat stuff is nicely finished though!
 
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Dec 6, 2016
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More, more more... This is my 2nd attempt. It seems I will never have sufficient terrain to make Necromunda rules work :D

I started playing Necromunda when the standard offiical terrain looked like this:
View attachment 149041
It worked fairly well as far as I remember. The 2 tables of terrain I already built costs 100s of $/£ to purchase, weeks to build & paint, and as you say, it's far from enough and doesn't work well enough.
So did I, I'm glad I stayed out of the conversation because I can come off a bit caustic when folks don't comprehend what they're missing out on.

With the extra terrain the games should get more interesting and bring the scenarios to life with it, just remember that Necro is more of a collabrative game than competative while retaining that element of risk/reward.

Happy days
 

Stompzilla

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Jan 11, 2013
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If you spend £20 on Plastic overflow pipe (21.5mm), fittings and pipe clips at a Hardware store, you can easily make all the scatter terrain you'll ever need.