Van Saar Players that have gotten in a game...

[Stoof]

Yes. Also known as "nice plasma, be a shame if it stopped working before you could use it."

Click is played after an attack with a ranged weapon, so they get one sporting shot

I'm not entirely sure how this combines with Munitioneer - Does Click act as if you failed the first ammo roll and the reroll from Munitioneer*, or only the first Ammo roll? We play it that someone with Munitioneer can roll one ammo check if they're hit with Click - as if they had already rolled and failed one ammo roll.

(*The ...Click card does say "as if it had failed an ammo roll" - Singular)

 

[Vegeta365]

Regardless of any particular weapon being OP, click is a major annoyance and one I wish all copies could be burnt. It is a ‘no brainer’ card and everyone choosing it when they can choose their cards is very boring. It makes you then pick the polar opposite card to this that instantly reloads a weapon. Not the most fun card system if everyone always chose those 2 cards. Of course you don’t always get to choose your cards but still.

 

[Vegeta365]

If you focus on Rad weapons, the Carbines become ridiculous. You could grab 2 Rad guns (the spec weapon version) and kit everyone else out with Las Carbines. Or if you grab the cannon, it's a small template. With the Carbines being rapid fire, you could potentially be hitting 3 people with T2. They're a great attrition group and what I've built mine around.

But yeah, click, not fun.

The rad gun dies require setting up and seriously risks you losing the firer, but yeah if your opponent lets you hit multiple models under the one template they are screwed.

The rad cannon is great combined with las carbinrs. However it suffers by virtue that the plasma cannon is simply too cheap and is the same cost. Why shot a rad cannon to knock model’s toughness down for las carbines to finish off the reduced toughness models when instead a plasma cannon can fire and simply delete fighters effortlessly?

There are reasons of course, to balance your list from being too powerful and for variety for example but this doesn’t stop the problem.

 

[Wilhelm Erbauer]

Well, you always risk not wounding with plasma cannon or opponents succeeding their save (if they got that 4+ or better, or any kind of field armour). Sure it won't be too often, but hey, dice are fickle )) Rad cannon deals flesh wounds any time it hits AND it can deal some more damage.

Besides, plasma cannon has 5+ Ammo and Scarce, which, combined, makes it quite easy to become useless after couple shots.

 

[Draco]

Rad cannons are miserable in a mirror match. That said, rad grenades make for awesome finishing devices especially when you get to throw 2 due to fast shot!

Click is annoying, but it can be defeated with more than one action card at the disposal of the Van Saar.

 

[HiveJive81]

I used the Rad Cannon with a suspensor, and 'Quick Shot'. Suspensor makes it no longer unwieldy, which means you can use it with quick shot.

I wait for a chance to get several of the enemy together, activate the Leader who activates the champion and another guy. I'll have the Champion move and dump a Rad Cannon shot into a cluster. Then have the other guy pop some lasgun or lascarbine shots into someone. And I'll use Overseer to have the leader re-activate the Rad-Cannon Champion and shoot twice more.

It's a cheap way to wipe a handful of dudes out.

 

[Thorgor]

Suspensor makes it no longer unwieldy, which means you can use it with quick shot

Unfortunately, suspensors don't combo with Fast shot. Suspensors don't remove Unwieldy, they only let you ignore one of its effect (the one that makes firing the weapon a Double action.) This has been clarified in the FAQ:

Page 36 – Suspensors
Replace the description of what this item does with:
“An Unwieldy ranged weapon fitted with suspensors is far more manoeuvrable. Firing it becomes a Basic action rather than a Double action.”

 

[HiveJive81]

Unfortunately, suspensors don't combo with Fast shot. Suspensors don't remove Unwieldy, they only let you ignore one of its effect (the one that makes firing the weapon a Double action.) This has been clarified in the FAQ:

Well, shit. I haven't seen the FAQ, was going out of the book.

Back to the gang-building. I can still use him for a quick pop-shot, re-activate, repeat and get back into cover... but with that hefty price, it almost seems like I could throw those points into something better.

 

[KA7777]

The concept of Rad as a "finishing device" has me rat-scheming about a horribly unfun gang that spams Rad Guns.

Like... self-pin, creep up to the enemy while being untaregetable in cover, then unload 4+ Rad Guns for a bunch of instakills you dont even need to roll dice for

 

[MikeIsMyHero]

Those Combi weapons have a drawback. You have to roll 2 dice for Ammo check every time and choose the worst one. And with Scarce rule for Plasma and Melta it really increases their chances to run out of ammo.

OUCH. Didn't realize this rule. Thank you!

 

[Vegeta365]

OUCH. Didn't realize this rule. Thank you!

It actually makes the cost of some combi weapons very expensive. Combi bolter/flamer particularly. For 10pts more I would buy the individual guns! Combi melta saving 15pts isn’t really worth it either but it is something you can get over. I personally don’t like the new las/plasma of the van Saar but people seem to love it. For me the plasma being twice as likely to run out of ammo and then you are left with a lasgun. The gun isn’t too expensive which is a benefit and I’m not saying I wouldn’t use it I would just prefer to have a full plasma gun for 25pts more.

 

[HiveJive81]

Click is played after an attack with a ranged weapon, so they get one sporting shot

Ah, good. I feel a bit more comfortable using cards now.

 

[Vonvilkee]

depends on meta in your parts. Click is a thing if you use cards, and them you can consider weapon slots. A plentiful lasgun with plasma allows you to use the Las when a pin is all you need then let loose with the plasma when it matters. Combi weapon allows for a lasgun, shield and shock combat weapon back up to the plasma.

 

[HiveJive81]

So I want someone to give me a reason to use a servo-claw

 

[Shawn]

This entire thing is covered by the fact that fast shot

So I want someone to give me a reason to use a servo-claw

Do you need a reason?!?

 

[sumpthing]

Played my first game against Van Saar last night, I found them very overwhelming...
So let me clear this up.

Pros
Highest natural BS
Access to Shooting skills
Cheap High damage weapons (plasma specifically)

Are they supposed to be incredibly OP or am I missing something?

 

[Norngahl]

They are darn expensive as a downsite and they have a lot of Problems with some missions, for example in the dark where your shooting is reduced to 3" LOS or Missions where you have to be the attacker due to beeing low and relying on aiming/shooting/Cover tactic. Grenade launcher with frag hurt a lot as well, as you can hit multiple dug in units, shoot behind cover and ignore the cover bonus plus beeing at Long range, where van saar work mediocore. They are truely deadly at 12" dug in, but otherwise, they suffer numbers, speed and durability, even with 4+.

Got Tabled last night Using 6 van saar (800pts) against a Mob of 14 Chaos cultists. Too many targets, too many shots coming in, to many possibilies to force me to spend all my 6 activations and the roll over me with 8 Counterweight activations. Sucked hard.

If you got problems, try a for grenade or two. Especially in the beginning, no one got points for that stuff. Later on, googles are still 35pts each, so only a few will have it at best.

Running into dug in van saar is simply madness. Got to think around the corner. Goliath Player?

 

[sumpthing]

They are darn expensive as a downsite and they have a lot of Problems with some missions, for example in the dark where your shooting is reduced to 3" LOS or Missions where you have to be the attacker due to beeing low and relying on aiming/shooting/Cover tactic. Grenade launcher with frag hurt a lot as well, as you can hit multiple dug in units, shoot behind cover and ignore the cover bonus plus beeing at Long range, where van saar work mediocore. They are truely deadly at 12" dug in, but otherwise, they suffer numbers, speed and durability, even with 4+.

Got Tabled last night Using 6 van saar (800pts) against a Mob of 14 Chaos cultists. Too many targets, too many shots coming in, to many possibilies to force me to spend all my 6 activations and the roll over me with 8 Counterweight activations. Sucked hard.

If you got problems, try a for grenade or two. Especially in the beginning, no one got points for that stuff. Later on, googles are still 35pts each, so only a few will have it at best.

Running into dug in van saar is simply madness. Got to think around the corner. Goliath Player?

Hey thanks for your reply, no i wasn't playing Goliath, it was Genestealer Cult. I'll try out you're suggestions.

 

[Shawn]

Played my first game against Van Saar last night, I found them very overwhelming...
So let me clear this up.

Pros
Highest natural BS
Access to Shooting skills
Cheap High damage weapons (plasma specifically)

Are they supposed to be incredibly OP or am I missing something?

Cons

Expensive compared to other gangs
Movement of a goliath
Everyone in your campaign will hate you because they are devastating at range and they will likely never close with you if played right.
Any scenario that requires you to get up close will be a serious problem until you get the creds to add melee weapons

But yes. They do feel Over powered to me. Even more so than the legacy list that was published.

 

[KA7777]

Low movement and Initiative are legitimately big drawbacks.

We all know how important movement is in just about every miniature game ever.

RE: the Initiative, if you shoot Van Saars who are near edges they WILL fall. A lot. Besides the additional damage rolls this can generate it will also spread the gang out and mess with their formation and strategy for advancing on the board.

It can be one of those things that's highly dependent on your board and terrain, though. If you don't have elevated positions worth occupying, or if you only have elevated positions covered in railings and walls that will help counteract falling, you may not see much effect.