N18 Van Saar starting roster experiment

[luckyfox7273]

Experimental starting gang for Van Saar, 995 credits, skimming through rules

All models with body glove
Prime:
Mesh armour
2 laspistols
Gunfighter

Arachni Rig 1:
Stock

Arachni Rig 2:
Stock

Three Teks:
Lasgun

3 Subteks:
Lasgun

9 models, any thoughts?

Starting strategy: use lasgun suppression to pin gangers while the rigs tear in CC.

As the rigs start strong, the longer game will then allow for growing gangers/juves. Adding hotshot ammo and more armor first thing.

 

[Heart of Storm]

Can you start with Arachni-rigs? Pretty sure they're not available to new gangs unless you've agreed that with the other players?

 

[luckyfox7273]

Can you start with Arachni-rigs? Pretty sure they're not available to new gangs unless you've agreed that with the other players?

Not sure, i could save the 450 creds, hope my first game or two plays fair, and then buy them. Also, the yak gang builder didn't deny them. I don't officially have the rules or gang though, just fantasizing. Do other gangs get there brutes early or start?

 

[mateyboy3000]

You can't start with brutes (the arachni rig) nor can you just do nothing game one and hire 2, your reputation limits you to one hanger on/brute while you have 1-4 reputation.

The underhive tools are not a rules checker, it's more like digital pen and paper, the paper doesn't check legality and nor does yaktribe. It has to facilitate campaign progress and people fiddling with creation rules through houserules

 

[luckyfox7273]

You can't start with brutes (the arachni rig) nor can you just do nothing game one and hire 2, your reputation limits you to one hanger on/brute while you have 1-4 reputation.

The underhive tools are not a rules checker, it's more like digital pen and paper, the paper doesn't check legality and nor does yaktribe. It has to facilitate campaign progress and people fiddling with creation rules through houserules

Ok, thx. I figure I could get one arachni rig on game 2 then? Then get the second as a goal? Ill have to get House of Artifice soon and study. Thanks for your reply. I noticed that the gang creator respected the archeotek having the spider rig so I thought it might be more constrained internally. But it did not correct ganger to juve counts.

I was liking this build because it did away with plasma spam and small number van saar gangs to become something very different, IMO.

 

[MyLonelyDeer]

Starting with underpayed gangs (like saving 450+ credits at creation) should be illegal and should be banned by any arbitrator in any campaing. This is absolutely unhealthy for the game. I can name a dozen of gaming groups in my area where people "burn" any unspent credits at campaing creation.

 

[luckyfox7273]

Ok.

 

[mateyboy3000]

Starting with underpayed gangs (like saving 450+ credits at creation) should be illegal and should be banned by any arbitrator in any campaing. This is absolutely unhealthy for the game. I can name a dozen of gaming groups in my area where people "burn" any unspent credits at campaing creation.

'burning credits' as you put it can be just as bad though as it shuts off perfectly valid strategies such as saving part of an items value to purchase said item after the first game.

The best example if this that I can think of would be suspensors for a heavy weapon. You can't squeeze them into the starting 1k so you bank 15 credits or so, so you only have to get 45 from the scenario to get them. Another is to save a bit of cash for a game 1 doc trip

 

[luckyfox7273]

Exactly, in addition, where this player may see abuse, i see a big risk in saving mass credits. Basically it's like a "late bloomer" strategy in an RPG where you hope to grow into a powerhouse and an agressive rush strategy could shut you down or you spend your time being beat down for the first 25% of a campaign.

 

[MyLonelyDeer]

'burning credits' as you put it can be just as bad though as it shuts off perfectly valid strategies such as saving part of an items value to purchase said item after the first game.

The best example if this that I can think of would be suspensors for a heavy weapon. You can't squeeze them into the starting 1k so you bank 15 credits or so, so you only have to get 45 from the scenario to get them. Another is to save a bit of cash for a game 1 doc trip

that is literally the reason of burning credits.

 

[mateyboy3000]

that is literally the reason of burning credits.

Can you elaborate a bit?

I completely agree that not spending credits to get a brute after game 1 is bad but there are plenty of alternatives that aren't as extreme as spend all 1k or lose it, you hurt people that can't find a way to spend those last 5 credits.

There are plenty of alternatives, such as just saying this is not OK and we don't want this to be a thing and you aren't invited if you want to do this, a minimum starting gang rating or any credits after X amount (eg 30) are burned

 

[MyLonelyDeer]

Can you elaborate a bit?

I completely agree that not spending credits to get a brute after game 1 is bad but there are plenty of alternatives that aren't as extreme as spend all 1k or lose it, you hurt people that can't find a way to spend those last 5 credits.

There are plenty of alternatives, such as just saying this is not OK and we don't want this to be a thing and you aren't invited if you want to do this, a minimum starting gang rating or any credits after X amount (eg 30) are burned

Well, its mostly because this game is already broken af and this is just new way to break it even more.
i.e. you start with 800 credits gang instead of 1000 which basically means that your rating is less than your opponents, you get all the underdog bonuses literally on your first game and then just buy fancy things from trading post. Too much ways to be abused.
Of course every arbitrator can set minimum rating on creation, like 970 (30 unspent credits) or smth, but generally speaking it is much easier to just ban such things right away. You can bulls**t a bulls**tter, right?

 

[mateyboy3000]

I'm not sure about broken, the core mechanics work as intended as far as I can see. Lack of fine balance is probably a better way of putting it.

Your groups clearly not against house rules so I'm curious as to why you went for the extreme approach over something that is far less extreme but curtail all the negative shenanigans of saving to throw 100+ credits at the trading post after the first game.
That is unless someone found a way to break a tamer option, such as 970 minimum rating, in which case I want to know how they did it because I like to look for loopholes so that I can close them before anyone gets to abuse one.

It's not been necessary in my group yet but I have had these in my pocket for a while in the event that they are needed

 

[luckyfox7273]

Well, its mostly because this game is already broken af and this is just new way to break it even more.
i.e. you start with 800 credits gang instead of 1000 which basically means that your rating is less than your opponents, you get all the underdog bonuses literally on your first game and then just buy fancy things from trading post. Too much ways to be abused.
Of course every arbitrator can set minimum rating on creation, like 970 (30 unspent credits) or smth, but generally speaking it is much easier to just ban such things right away. You can bulls**t a bulls**tter, right?

What if a house rule was written that a gang's underdog rating is not counted if credits are saved in bulk after creation for the first couple games? Something like that.

 

[WCWill]

Ok, thx. I figure I could get one arachni rig on game 2 then? Then get the second as a goal? Ill have to get House of Artifice soon and study. Thanks for your reply. I noticed that the gang creator respected the archeotek having the spider rig so I thought it might be more constrained internally. But it did not correct ganger to juve counts.

I was liking this build because it did away with plasma spam and small number van saar gangs to become something very different, IMO.

Just double-checking, since you mention an archeotek with a spider rig here, are you aware that a spider-rig and arachni-rig are entirely separate things? A starting list with two archeoteks with spider-rigs would still be a wild experiment but actually rules legal.

 

[luckyfox7273]

Just double-checking, since you mention an archeotek with a spider rig here, are you aware that a spider-rig and arachni-rig are entirely separate things? A starting list with two archeoteks with spider-rigs would still be a wild experiment but actually rules legal.

I understand the difference. I wanted to recruit two arachni rigs ASAP and skip the archeoteks even though
I really like their spider rig also. Great to know you can field two and they might be another option. I've seen a thread comment where a player really liked the Archeotek rig but their complaint was about the 4" move. From online rules skimming, i found a way to boost the 4" with "Hip Shooting". If you buy a cheap laspistol for the archeotek that buys him another D3 advancement every turn.

 

[MyLonelyDeer]

I understand the difference. I wanted to recruit two arachni rigs ASAP and skip the archeoteks even though
I really like their spider rig also. Great to know you can field two and they might be another option. I've seen a thread comment where a player really liked the Archeotek rig but their complaint was about the 4" move. From online rules skimming, i found a way to boost the 4" with "Hip Shooting". If you buy a cheap laspistol for the archeotek that buys him another D3 advancement every turn.

archeoKEKs dont have shooting skills in primary

 

[WCWill]

Archeoteks don't have shooting as a primary skill, so getting hip shooting will he problematic. IIRC it just let's you double move and shoot anyway.

Slowness is a big issue with no easy solution (outside ofnash wastes vehicles). Most people use them as counter-chargers rather than for aggressively assaulting the other gang like a stimmers or corpse grinder cultist would.

 

[luckyfox7273]

Right, the other idea was to go all minimum lasgun. Skip all rigs. And use maybe about 4 krak grenade carrying models to take out high toughness targets while they are pinned.

 

[luckyfox7273]

I wanted to mention the idea for yhis build kind of came from playing Fallout 4. One of my settlements was attacked by a Death Claw. And I had armed all 20 of the settlers with Pipe Rifles. Even though they were just pipe rifles, a hail of 20 alternating pipe rifle shots was enough to flinch and trip up the Death Claw.