I talked with a friend about this kind of thing being able to buy a brute at startup , and we agreed it would be fine as most brutes are not even that good compared to some champions that gangs can create at the start of a campaign , I would fight an Arachna rig over a souped up nacht ghul, lucky plasma or lock or roided up stimmer any day
N18 Van Saar starting roster experiment
- Thread starter luckyfox7273
- Start date
Yeah, this was my point of trying to offer another Van Saar roster with no plasma. I figured it it might create a new dynamic as most van saar lists ive noodled around online are two plasma, one cannon etc., 6 gangers. The arachni rigs looks strong but only T4, so they aren't invulnerable.
I'd be careful about investing in close combat in a starting VS gang. An Arachni-Rig Servo Suit and an Archeotek with a Spider-Rig (why did they have to makes the names so similar?) are decent combatants in a pinch, but are overall not effective enough in close combat or good enough at getting to close combat to focus on it. Van Saar win fights by being good at shooting. Focus on the shooting and then as your gang develops, if it appeals to you, add a bit of close combat power for those unfortunate times when a foe manages to evade the hail of accurate energy-weapon fire and get into melee combat with you.
Yeah, that's why i liked them, their rapid fire adds to the pinning and looks like if you have a brute handler you can get nerves of steel.
Brutes all have thier uses. Yes they may me smashy or shooty but all of they have the following use. Bullet magnets.
Your opponent will be forced to shoot them or take them down somehow as no matter what you arm your brute with if they get in range of a normal ganger or juve they will cream them. Ignoring them is like ignoring a champion.
If they hurt the opposite gang great but even if they don't they sap resources and hard hitting weapon fire protecting your more vulnerable gangers and juves.
Your opponent will be forced to shoot them or take them down somehow as no matter what you arm your brute with if they get in range of a normal ganger or juve they will cream them. Ignoring them is like ignoring a champion.
If they hurt the opposite gang great but even if they don't they sap resources and hard hitting weapon fire protecting your more vulnerable gangers and juves.
I had not considered the brute handler nerves of steel thing.
A plot awakens...
I'm looking through house of artifice, i bought an ebook. I don't see brute handlers on the list. It's a shame, because a votaan tech or mechanicus would haveen a great model to stand by a van saar arachni rig for fluff.
I don't know how many are still reading this but here is my Van Saar experimental close combat entry:
Prime:
Laspistol
Power knife
Servo harness
Mesh armor
Hip shooting
305 credits
Subtek1:
Laspistol
Servoclaw
Mesh armor
95 credits
Subtek2:
Laspistol
Servo claw
Mesh armor
95 credits
4 teks:
Lasgun
85 creds= 340creds
Archeotek:
Laspistol
3 digi
Mesh armor
Torsonic alpha (free cost)
Fixer skill
220 credits
Strategy:
the four teks support las shots to pin,
The prime advances at 3"+d3 with hip shooting, so 4-6" a turn, hoping to get in close combat with a power knife and the servo harness at S6, maybe 3-4 attacks? -2ap.
The 5" moving juves screen for him and may threaten with servo claws but have to hit on WS5,
The archeotek doesn't use a spider rig but counter engages in close combat with 5 attacks from the 3digis, and D3 if one attack can make it through since he's "unarmed".
Note: Only variant might be to play two archeoteks with fixer, no digis, and lasguns. And use them as a credit factory to funk cybertechnika during campaign, or an early brute purchase.
Prime:
Laspistol
Power knife
Servo harness
Mesh armor
Hip shooting
305 credits
Subtek1:
Laspistol
Servoclaw
Mesh armor
95 credits
Subtek2:
Laspistol
Servo claw
Mesh armor
95 credits
4 teks:
Lasgun
85 creds= 340creds
Archeotek:
Laspistol
3 digi
Mesh armor
Torsonic alpha (free cost)
Fixer skill
220 credits
Strategy:
the four teks support las shots to pin,
The prime advances at 3"+d3 with hip shooting, so 4-6" a turn, hoping to get in close combat with a power knife and the servo harness at S6, maybe 3-4 attacks? -2ap.
The 5" moving juves screen for him and may threaten with servo claws but have to hit on WS5,
The archeotek doesn't use a spider rig but counter engages in close combat with 5 attacks from the 3digis, and D3 if one attack can make it through since he's "unarmed".
Note: Only variant might be to play two archeoteks with fixer, no digis, and lasguns. And use them as a credit factory to funk cybertechnika during campaign, or an early brute purchase.
It looks like you can hire a brute handler around online, but it's cheaper for house Goliath. It can also start in the gang. Seems very powerful to confer Nerves of Steel to a multi wound Arachni Rig.
Your prime will be advancing at double his movement range, not movement +d3 (that's charging)
I'm all up for trying different things but melee Van Saar is a real head scratcher... if you want to melee someone why not take a gang that's good at it?
Based on the above your dude has a maximum threat range of 6", thats the minimum charge range for a Death Maiden, corpse grinders with an icon can more than double that.
In a game where the person who charges first most often wins this is a bad position for your leader to be in.
Boring as it is, Van Saar are built for shooting and nothing else, if you want a gang that has melee teeth and fights beneath a screen of lasgun fire, you may consider Escher?
It's probably worth doing some practice games before you commot to building this list. It's novel and might be fun but is definitely building against VS strengths.
Even with that load out the Prime will struggle against CC champs and I'm pretty sure hip shooting doesn't work like that, instead letting you double move (8") the shoot your las pistol. Just target normal gangers and you should be okay though.
The subteks are quite expensive and will still be pretty naff in combat. I'd almost just recommend naked ones if they're just for screening.
I think the archeotek is armed I'm afraid, with their las pistol and digis, so you won't get the extra damage from Torsonic alpha. You could just choose not to use the las pistol for the main two attacks if you're committed to it.
Yeah, i was just trying to challenge the common build. I was thinking, buying one cyberachnid would make the Prime become Fearsome and maybe stall a charge. I like the look of Van Saar a lot, though.
The archeotek is an "unarmed" combatant. Having 3 digis and a pistol should give 3 attacks, maybe a 4th for two close combat weapons (two being digis) add this to 2 attacks on his profile and he should have 5 attacks at least, maybe 6 for the two digi combo? If the pistol doesnt add to CC he could take a lasgun. The "unarmed" is key to get the Damage 3 from his implant. It was an uncommon/minimal approach.
Then later getting the second torsonic upgrade and taking the power knife from the leader as he may get an unwieldly weapon from the trading post etc.
Yes, maybe those two juves could have two las pistols instead and try to pin, freeing up points for a couple of cyberachnids trailing the leader. And yeah i would play test this kind of thing. It's basically my CC experiment list. I just thought those two uncommon rigs might not have been thought up.
I'd assumed dig-weapons plus las pistol wouldn't count as armed with multiple weapons but check with your Arbitrator. Only the base 2 attacks (+1 on a charge) would use the unarmed attack stats. You would need to use the las pistol or Digi-laser profile for any extra attacks they generate. As Digi-lasers are str 1, dmg 1, AP - I don't think they're worth it.
Edit: I love cyberachnids but have never seen them in a starting list, that would be fun.
Edit: I love cyberachnids but have never seen them in a starting list, that would be fun.
Right, i did a lot of reading on this, it's kind of under explained. You would use two attacks unarmed and one on the charge to benefit from the torsonic upgrade. Then the digi lasers use the strength of the wielder, up to three inches in range, they count as melee/versatile. I guess you ammo check roll for a CC weapon in this case?
The digi laser has 6+ ammo check if you roll a bullet, but Im not sure if you should roll the firedice once for all you're attacks or onetime for each attack? Munitioner skill would help reload if you have several. So that's 2-3 attacks unarmed then 3 attacks at strength of wielder which might need a reload.
If you're looking for a variant Van Saar list, just avoiding Plasma and Lasgun spam would set your list apart, though it would be suboptimal. Maybe focus on short ranged shooting with some mild counter charge elements? Take a Melta Gun, Grav Gun and a few doubled up pistols. Instead of the usual Lasguns, put Las Carbines on a couple of models for pinning. Put Gunfighter and Hip Shooting on anyone you can. You can still give a Cyberarachnid to a decent counter-charger, for a little charge protection.
Yeah, i feel phasing out mass lasguns would defeat the economy of the gang. But you're idea would make another 4th option.
If you are fielding a bunch of grenadiers make sure someone has munitioneer with them, as you may only get one shot off with them due to auto ammo roll needed each time you throw.
