N18 Van Saar starting roster experiment

If you are fielding a bunch of grenadiers make sure someone has munitioneer with them, as you may only get one shot off with them due to auto ammo roll needed each time you throw.
Good idea, grenadier would help too. At this point in time most excited by my two archeotek build, im thinking about.
 
Unfortunately no grenadier skill, although hipshooting would be a useful skill to pick up for them.
What's the archeoteks builds?
 
I checked the market places of necromunda doc and digi lasers are listed as strength 1 there. Although that is as likely to have errors as every other necromunda publication so make of it what you will.
 
Had just seen I missed a page of the thread.
Digi lasers are pretty cack, better to just get a power knife.
For a cheap cc archeotek, prob the best combo is sub carbines and power knife with gadgetter to give the las blaze, so you can go round setting people on fire and possibly get power to kick in occasionally to do some wounds.
 
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I checked the market places of necromunda doc and digi lasers are listed as strength 1 there. Although that is as likely to have errors as every other necromunda publication so make of it what


My debate for Digis is that there weapon profile makes thrm close combat first in short range and thrn ranged up to 3". The weapon profile at the short range uses an "E" which is short for "engaged" . The rule book states that items that have "E" in their profile are supposed to use their user's Strength. However, I think that if you opt to shoot with the Digis, that they are then only Strength 1 based on the weapon only, which then requires a firepower dice roll.
 
Had just seen I missed a page of the thread.
Digi lasers are pretty cack, better to just get a power knife.
For a cheap cc archeotek, prob the best combo is sub carbines and power knife with gadgetter to give the las blaze, so you can go round setting people on fire and possibly get power to kick in occasionally to do some wounds.
Yes, a power knife first, but then add Digi lasers with extra cash to keep adding extra attacks.
 
Unfortunately no grenadier skill, although hipshooting would be a useful skill to pick up for them.
What's the archeoteks builds?
Here are the 5 main variations of Archeotek I've noodled with:

#1 "The Unarmed Tek Monk"
Lasgun
Mesh
Torsonic Alpha (free)
Fixer
150 credits

Intent: uses the rifle at the start of the campaign to help suppress with its good BS. A laspistol won't benefit due to unarmed status. Then, use it to counter charge champions.

Pros: D3 unarmed damage might severely injure a champion early campaign. This is Min/Max to make the Archdotek the most affordable. (Possibly fielding two)

Cons: only two CC attacks due to unarmed descriptor, +1 on the charge, allowed.

#2. "Affordable Unarmed/Digi Tek"
Laspistol
Mesh
Torsonic alpha upgrade
1 Digi
Fixer
170 credits

Intent: min-max for low strength combat. Getting one pistol and one CC digi will grant +1 attack. Making for 4 attacks Strength 3 and +1 on the charge. Also note that if an arbitrator lets you use your two unarmed attacks, you might benefit from the D3 damage if you sacrifice the +1 from the pistol being holstered. Which would make it be 2 unarmed attacks @d3, 1 attack S3 digi.

Pros: a more affordable low strength build that may focus on being good enough for enemy gangers. Not needing strength upgrades ASAP. Buys one Digi to get the second close combat bonus as well as an extra attack (2 attacks for 25 credits, yes, please)

Cons: needs more strength for CC specialists like Goliath at T4, etc.

#3 "Min Goliath Killer Tek"
Laspistol
Mesh
Torsonic Gamma upgrade
(15 credits)
Power knife
Fixer
185 credits +50 credits (2 Digis) variant.

Intent: Most minimum high strength "melee-versatile" attacks at an affordable rate.
Pros: 3 attacks, +1 on the charge, at Strength 6. Affordability beats out Spider Rig? Could add two more digis for 2 more attacks over Spider Rig, making 5 attacks @ S6, AP -2.

Cons: Spider Rig would be a superior big picture.

#4. "Strength Spider Rig"
Laspistol
Mesh
Spider Rig
Torsonic Gamma
(15 credits)
Fixer
240 credits +(25 credits for power knife)
Intent: Min purchases to get the power of the spider rig.

Pros: the spider rig makes WS +1, S +1, making the attacks be 6 attacks on the charge @ Strength 6 from "paired" descriptor. Consider an early stat buff to the attack profile if possible as it will double the attack profile from 4 to 6 with paired.

Cons: need to get the charge from a 4" move unit
Note: Could go from a high strength build, but the 15 credit upgrades are so cheap. Could also add the Power Knife instead of pistol for half of your CC attacks to get AP -2.

Note: Could add a cyberarachnid for 75 credits for a "Fearsome" trait to help prevent charges, but mightbget costly early on.

#5. "Tekno God"
Laspistol
Mesh
Spider Rig
Torsonic Gamma
(15 credits)
10 Digis
Fixer
465 credits +25 credits for power knife variant
-80 credits for no spider rig min variant
Intent: Max attacks, Max Strength.

Pros: 16 attacks on the charge! @ Strength 6! (14 attacks, S5 if no rig on charge) so many potential wounds will kill gangers outright.

Cons: expensive unit best for late campaign. Spider Rig may not be needed at max digis probability.

Note: Consider choosing more cyber technika or field armor if even more disposable income is earned, making the unit even larger.
 
I'm afraid you've misread that on this occasion. It's a versatile melee weapon, not a ranged weapon, which is why it has E as short range and 3" as long range. Melee weapons that have a strength of S use the strength characteristic of the wielder, if they just have a number then the strength is fixed at that.
 
I'm afraid you've misread that on this occasion. It's a versatile melee weapon, not a ranged weapon, which is why it has E as short range and 3" as long range. Melee weapons that have a strength of S use the strength characteristic of the wielder, if they just have a number then the strength is fixed at that.
You have confirmed my opinion. Its a close combat weapon by default so it gets "E" strength of the wielder. Which was my main point. Then it has Long at 3" which makes it become ranged at Strength 1 according to it's strength profile, then it's when you do your firepower dice that when failed makes a nasty 6+ ammo save. Why shoot with a low strength weapon? Im still learning the new Necromunda rules but, i see that if you take a basic fight action against one ganger you could then turn with the "versatile" trait and shoot a second ganger to pin him with BS3. Keeping him from shooting next turn.

I see this represented in the physics of the armor/weapon like the Archeotek has a pair of thick Bracers over his forearms that expel a 6 inch laser rod in CC. But when the targets out of range, the weapon shoots from the tip of the laser rods at strength 1 since the CC physics aren't helping them to be pressed into flesh.

I feel your response confirms that the Digi laser is very viable because of using the strenth of wielder by being marked "E". And benefitting from +2 Strength from the 2nd Torsonic upgrade at 15 credits. This goes against others commenting that digis suck because it's just an extra attack at (strength 1) in CC, which i feel is false.
 
No it's S1 for both engaged attacks with Digi lasers and for versatile attacks, so although you can get up to 10 extra attacks they would all only ever be S1 and would cost 250creds.
"E" stands for engaged which is being in base to base combat only. You do not get to use your cyberteknika to buff them either. The only strength bonus you can add to them is by the back stab skill/bonus.
Eg the Delaque web gauntlet which is S3 all the way unless you back stab. This weapon has no versatile so why would it have a str value and "E" if you could use your model str?
Also if a cc weapon has a distance it is versatile which still uses your WS to hit not BS as it is still a cc weapon.

The torsonic gamma either gives D3 to unarmed attacks or ups modifiable str weapons by +2 but not both at same time.

Tekno god would be; without spider rig,
1A @ S3 from laspistol,
2A @ unarmed strength, +1A if charging, with damage 3.
10A @S1 from digi lasers.

With rig is,
1A @ S3 from laspistol,
3A @S4 from rig, or 5A @ S4 if charging, (+2S with the cyberteknika).
10A @S1 from digi lasers.

Your cyberteknika can not buff the digi laser strength, but can add to the spider rigs attacks.
 
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No it's S1 for both engaged attacks with Digi lasers and for versatile attacks, so although you can get up to 10 extra attacks they would all only ever be S1 and would cost 250creds.
"E" stands for engaged which is being in base to base combat only. You do not get to use your cyberteknika to buff them either. The only strength bonus you can add to them is by the back stab skill/bonus.
Eg the Delaque web gauntlet which is S3 all the way unless you back stab. This weapon has no versatile so why would it have a str value and "E" if you could use your model str?
Also if a cc weapon has a distance it is versatile which still uses your WS to hit not BS as it is still a cc weapon.

Tekno god would be; without spider rig,
1A @ S3 from laspistol,
2A @ unarmed strength, +1 if charging,
10A @S1 from digi lasers.

With rig is,
1A @ S3 from laspistol,
3A @S4 from rig, or 5A @ S4 if charging,
10A @S1 from digi lasers.

Your cyberteknika can not buff either the digi laser strength or even the spider rigs attacks...
You are correct on the pistol attack, that's a new necromunda rule. One attack will be from the pistol shot in CC

I wouldn't be using my BS to hit with the Digis. I would use WS.

However,
The torsonic gamma cybertechnika states:
"In addition, this fighter may apply a +2 modifier to their strength characteristic when resolving hits made with a weapon that has either the melee or versatile trait."

From the Close Combat weapons list:
Digi Laser: Range S/E L/3", Strength 1, 6+ ammo
Descriptors: DIGI (means +1 attack, a CC weapon used with other CC weapons.) MELEE (CC weapon used during CC attacks)
VERSATILE (allows a close combat attack, in base to base, and up to 3", counts as Engaged)

From the core rulebook:
"Some weapons ranges are shown as a letter rather than a number of inches. If a weapon range is listed as "E", it can only be used against targets that are engaged with the wielder.
Second paragraph:
"Weapons with range E or T normally only have a long range, not a short range, indicating that this is the furthest this is the furthest range a weapon can be used. Note, however, that in cases of weapons with the versatile trait, a weapon may have a short range of "E" and a long range presented as a number of inches."

STRENGTH PARAGRAPH
This is the weapons strength, which is used when making wound rolls against the target. For most weapons particularly ranged weapons, this is a simple numerical value. For close combat weapons - those with the range of E- this may be shown as S. Meaning the strength of the wielder should be used,

So after pulling up direct quotes here:
1/ the Digi-Laser is a CC weapon that can be combined with a pistol for +1 attack. You could also elect to attack with two Digis in CC, no pistol and get the +1 with no pistol shot.

2/ the torsonic gamma enhances CC weapons that have "melee, versatile," descriptors which the Digi does. So it gets the +2 strength.

3/ the weapon profile Strength rule states that the Range S/E means that the weapon uses the character's Strength profile. So Strength 3+2 for the Digi attack at Short/E up to 3".
 
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No it's S1 for both engaged attacks with Digi lasers and for versatile attacks, so although you can get up to 10 extra attacks they would all only ever be S1 and would cost 250creds.
"E" stands for engaged which is being in base to base combat only. You do not get to use your cyberteknika to buff them either. The only strength bonus you can add to them is by the back stab skill/bonus.
Eg the Delaque web gauntlet which is S3 all the way unless you back stab. This weapon has no versatile so why would it have a str value and "E" if you could use your model str?
Also if a cc weapon has a distance it is versatile which still uses your WS to hit not BS as it is still a cc weapon.

The torsonic gamma either gives D3 to unarmed attacks or ups modifiable str weapons by +2 but not both at same time.

Tekno god would be; without spider rig,
1A @ S3 from laspistol,
2A @ unarmed strength, +1A if charging, with damage 3.
10A @S1 from digi lasers.

With rig is,
1A @ S3 from laspistol,
3A @S4 from rig, or 5A @ S4 if charging, (+2S with the cyberteknika).
10A @S1 from digi lasers.

Your cyberteknika can not buff the digi laser strength, but can add to the spider rigs attacks.
Oh, i see what you're saying now. You use the wielders Strength when it's marked "S". If it's a number, then you're using the number. Torsonic Gamma wouldn't help because it enhances the user's strength not the weapon. Torsonic Gamma would only help the Spider Rig or a brace of Power Knives.

"Dual Power Knives Tek"
Lasgun
Mesh
Torsonic Gamma
2x Power Knife
215 credits

2 attacks @ S6, +1 two CC, +1 on charge
So, 4 attacks @S6, -AP2

"Dual Power Knives Digi Tek"
215 credits +3 Digis (75credits)
4 attacks @S6, -AP2
3 attacks @S1

So I'm assuming Strength 1 attacks always wound on a "6"?
 
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That version two power knives looks much better. If you have creds for maybe one digi laser at the start they are brilliantly thematic if not brilliant mechanically. You can always get some more later in the campaign if you like how it plays out.
 
*If* I were kitting VS for CC, I'd probably lean towards a Shield and either a pistol or a Shock Staff. While the Shield doesn't do a lot of damage, it does give a nice amount of additional protection and the Knockback rule can help prevent reaction attacks. The Staff and pistol are useful because they both allow you to make additional attacks in CC, but can also hit an opponent who has been knocked back in subsequent actions.
 
*If* I were kitting VS for CC, I'd probably lean towards a Shield and either a pistol or a Shock Staff. While the Shield doesn't do a lot of damage, it does give a nice amount of additional protection and the Knockback rule can help prevent reaction attacks. The Staff and pistol are useful because they both allow you to make additional attacks in CC, but can also hit an opponent who has been knocked back in subsequent actions.
Works for a Prime, but not an archeo at creation as for some dumb reason they can't take a shield or shock stave!?

The dual knife and torsonic looks nasty, what skill were you going for with that?
 
Works for a Prime, but not an archeo at creation as for some dumb reason they can't take a shield or shock stave!?

The dual knife and torsonic looks nasty, what skill were you going for with that?
I was most likely going to use Fixer in the mean time. It can help to provide credits to grow such a strong "big vision fighter" that the archeotek looks like. Because if I start with the "Unarmed Tekno Monk" the archeotek will go out of action on the second game to upgrade to Torsonic Gamma. When he's out of action, he can still farm the creds for the team. If i have two Tekno Monks, they could alternate games between upgrades, so one is always there. The other idea was to use the Prime with "Mentor" to help the Archeoteks maybe make up for lost game exp. From being in recovery as well.

Another idea would be, if I chose to run a "min-max Digi Tek" (3digis-10digis) the "Weaponsmith" skill might be nice to auto reload the Digis after their 6+ ammo roll.

Or "Photonic Engineer" adds +1 to the digis damage!!
 
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