N18 Variant gang combinations

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Dec 29, 2017
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Over the years there are several ways to play existing gangs in new ways. For example:
  • Genestealer Cult infected
  • Malstrain corrupted
  • Chaos corrupted
  • Secundan Incursion
  • Saint's Crusade
However, there are not much rules to speak of to limit these. And people are already reporting about using such combos. Some can be justified by decades worth of fluff. Still, I wonder what makes sense today? For example there were chaos orks back in 2nd edition 40k, but as far as I know there were no official minis since. So what can be justified? What is clearly unintentional?
In terms of RAW, RAI and fluff.

As far as I can see, Saint's Crusade can't be combined with Genestealer Cult infected or Chaos corrupted. But Malstrain Corrupted gang can be on a Crusade? Can you have Malstrain Chaos Secundan Incursion Genestealer Cult infected gang?
 
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Back in the day Orks had Chaos leanings but I think it was young Orks only - like Stormboyz.

They could get infected by Genestealers too and there were options for adding Human Mercenaries as squads alongside them.

Also Ogryn too.

Imperial Guard had Beastmen!

Space Marines could take Shuriken catapults!

Back to topic, you’d hope there was some kind of limitation because Maxxxxxxxed combos sound awfully, ummm, like there’s some attempt at being a bit cheesy to get the best aspects of each option on the table, rather than being a thematic twist to an existing option.

In your example there, if there was some kind of “rule of diminishing returns” for doing that which meant you could go crazy and have multiple affiliations but by doing so you actually got less access to fancy stuff from each option as they cancelled each other out, it would at least limit the tendencies of some types of gamer to choose those as a form of one-upmanship.

As this topic has come up I guess that GW in their infinitesimal wisdom has just not bothered to consider this situation would arise and done nothing to address it. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
I mean broadly speaking, GSC shouldn't exist now the new malstrain rules exists as, fluffwise, those Genestealer Cults that still exist on Necromunda are the faded vestiges of the original Secundus event...

Similarly, Chaos cultist and GSC should be mutually exclusive, since by nature a Genestealer Cult is dominated by the influence of the Patriarch and by extension the Hive Mind, doesn't leave room for independent worship of the Chaos Gods.

Saints Crusade you could play either way, I actually think the idea of a Saints Crusade actually being a Chaos or Genestealer Cult being entirely in keeping with the setting, for example.
 
Can Genestealers bite Space Marines? Can the Navis Nobilitae be uplifted to be Astartes? Can Malstrain go rogue? Can a Genestealer bite a Spyrer? Can all of the above wear a Halo Device? What if they get too close to brainleafs?

I enjoy these thoughts quite cheerfully!
---

I'm generally supportive of the utter anarchy combinations can have, but I think the templates we have are suggestive of a general form:
1- Pick a base gang: Outcast; Enforcers, BZE; AWN; ×6 Houses; Ironheads; Ogryns; Venators; GSC; CHC; CGC; Spyrers; ??.
2- Overlay a twist: {implied: Pure Law Abiding}; Crusade; Corruption (Genestealer; Malstrain; Chaos); Secundus Incursion; {implied: Pure Outcast/Outlaw?}
3- Alliances: Pick one (or none) and gain benefits and hindrances.

I think adding "Redemption" to #2 would be cool too, but it's a lot more involved than I'd otherwise propose.

#2 is the messier piece right now, as it's very slapdash, but thinking about these three aspects sort of conjures up the dimensions of possibility.

So - personally - a way to tidy it all would be to fiddle around with GSC, Helots and CGC - rework them mostly to be specific combinations of Outcasts convolved with Chaos or Genestealer/Malstrain at the second level.

But with Corpsegrinder? Well, I think it's more suggestive of the *other* direction, to make the base gang be a little more neutral: it's a specific Guilder-y gang of Corpse Grinders.

Not inherently chaotic.

But the prime convolution would be with <Khorne>-affiliated at #2, one imagines.

The you could rationalise the rest of the possibilities to just work more generically: Psi-Sindica-allied <Nurgle>-aligned Corpse grinders? Why ever not.

Imperial House-allied Malstrain-aligned Slave Ogryns? Sure, Necromunda's a very weird place. Stranger things have happened...

(House Aranthus.)

But fine, people would be happier with *some* limitations baked in to shave off the weirder combinations.

Like Spyrers can't be Malstrain-aligned allies of a Fallen House? Humbug!

It'd mean a big rewrite to make all that fit, but that feels to me like how it ought to all fit together most easily.

Not fiddling around with all that would basically just mean a lot of limiting the options *explicitly*, e.g. Corpse Grinder Cults can't make a #2 choice, GSCs can only opt for "none" or "Malstrain" at second level, or something similar. Less re-writing, more explicitly writing out what most of us *kinda* get, or has been half-written. Filling in some assumptions and a little tidying.

I'm less satisfied with that option, but it's certainly easier in the short run.
 
To me, the best solution would be to keep it simple - max one variant per gang. Not that others can't exist or haven't existed. It just feels unintentional and messy.
I mean broadly speaking, GSC shouldn't exist now the new malstrain rules exists as, fluffwise, those Genestealer Cults that still exist on Necromunda are the faded vestiges of the original Secundus event...

Similarly, Chaos cultist and GSC should be mutually exclusive, since by nature a Genestealer Cult is dominated by the influence of the Patriarch and by extension the Hive Mind, doesn't leave room for independent worship of the Chaos Gods.

Saints Crusade you could play either way, I actually think the idea of a Saints Crusade actually being a Chaos or Genestealer Cult being entirely in keeping with the setting, for example.
The thing is, 40k fluff is so wast, so much exists. So even stuff like Chaos Genestealer Cult. Found one example called Cult Tenebrous.
 
Secundus is not the only genestealer outbreak on Necromunda. The Space Hulk missions in White Dwarf 138 were about a genestealer outbreak in the Nautilus spire of Acropolis Hive, for example.

Edit: separately, in "2nd edition" 40K, chaos corrupted genestealers, like Khorneboy orks, were possible and included as army list options.
 
I mean broadly speaking, GSC shouldn't exist now the new malstrain rules exists as, fluffwise, those Genestealer Cults that still exist on Necromunda are the faded vestiges of the original Secundus event...
Not completely correct.
GSC spread out from Secundus before the Dust Wall was finished, then Hive Secundus was bombarded with rads and grav bombs.
Those GSC were not bombarded with rads and grav bombs etc, and could be considererd "original recipe" Malstrain Genestealers.

The Book of Desolation makes it clear on page 47:
Interestingly, where Malstrain cults emerge in hives and outland settlements they are often in opposition to the more stable strains of the Genestealer plague. From time to time Genestealer spore will be brought to Necromunda on one of the billions upon billions of cargo containers endlessly passing through the Eye of Selene. Sometimes these make their way down into the underhive where they can take root. As the fledgling cult grows it detects the corrupted psychic signal of the Malstrain Patriarch, projected from the ruins of Secundus. As often as not this signal repels the cult, though some do succumb to its call and make their way to the Abyss to be absorbed into the Malstrain cult.

The "as often as not" or 50% of the time vanilla Genestealer Cultists (either present prior to the Secundus outbreak or imported) don't succumb to the Malstrain Patriarch's psychic signal indicates that there are still active Original Recipe Genestealer Cults on the surface.

Similarly, Chaos cultist and GSC should be mutually exclusive, since by nature a Genestealer Cult is dominated by the influence of the Patriarch and by extension the Hive Mind, doesn't leave room for independent worship of the Chaos Gods.
The Cult Tenebrous example that always comes up in debates about this is interesting, but its extremity demonstrates why it shouldn't be possible on Necromunda.
For those who don't follow the link, that Genestealer Cult's space vessel was "swallowed by a Warp Storm that stranded them on the outskirts of the Garden of Nurgle in the Realm of Chaos".
There's a significant difference between being a GSC patriarch mind-controlled cult corrupted by exposure to Chaotic energies within the deepest parts of the Immaterium, and the same sort of cultists being exposed to the low-key chaotic stuff that could be found on Necromunda - remember, Helot cultists don't even rate Lesser Daemons on their roster!
Saints Crusade you could play either way, I actually think the idea of a Saints Crusade actually being a Chaos or Genestealer Cult being entirely in keeping with the setting, for example.
The Saints Crusades rules have sufficient downsides if you fail to meet the Saint's demands that it's probably better permitted under the rule of cool than not.

But they're probably drawing on the same power source as that which provides Cawdor their crunchy free faith dice and which explicitly forbids Chaos or Genestealer taint.

Compare Faith Dice [page 97, Book of Faith]:
These dice are a resource that all Cawdor gangs (except those that have become Chaos Corrupted or Genestealer Infected) generate over the course of the battle.

With Pledging to a Saint, [page 51, Vaults of Temenos]:
During any campaign, any gang, whether Law-abidingor Outlaw, can pledge their service to a Saint so long as there is not already a call upon them. This means that Corpse Grinder Cults, Genestealer Cults, Helot Chaos Cults, Chaos Corrupted gangs or Genestealer Infected gangs cannot pledge to a Saint.

Secundus/Desolation wasn't out at that point, but is anyone really claiming that Malstrain cultists don't have a psychic link to the Malstrain Patriarch that is intended to be considered to be a calling on the same order as Chaos Taint or the OR GSC?
 
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Over the years there are several ways to play existing gangs in new ways. For example:
  • Genestealer Cult infected
  • Malstrain corrupted
  • Chaos corrupted
  • Secundan Incursion
  • Saint's Crusade
However, there are not much rules to speak of to limit these. And people are already reporting about using such combos. Some can be justified by decades worth of fluff. Still, I wonder what makes sense today? For example there were chaos orks back in 2nd edition 40k, but as far as I know there were no official minis since. So what can be justified? What is clearly unintentional?
In terms of RAW, RAI and fluff.
[Edited a couple of days later, I forgot about Malstrain-on-Original-Recipe-Genestealer interactions as documented on this very same comment page; and Chaos on Genestealer interactions, and Chaos Ogryns].
Let's break that down.
I'm not going to scan all the fluff, so consider those bits more vibes.
  • Genestealer Cult infected [Original Recipe, not updated since 2019's Book of Ruin, pages 12-14]
    • RAW:
      Explicitly stated in Book of Ruin as compatible with House Gangs but denies them access to House Favours, Exotic Pets and Brutes. Infected retain access to equipment lists and recruitment of additional House fighters along with Special House benefits like Genesmithing, Chymistry, Cybernetica, Legendary Names, Psychoteric Whispers. Cawdor being the only exception mentioned in the rules - the "calling" of Articles of Faith are specified as not being available to Genestealer Infected or Chaos Corrupted.
      Palatine Enforcers are not mentioned in the list in Book of Ruin, despite the Dark Uprising box being released the same year.
      Weird artifact in Lawful/Outlaw rules whereby three-arm-having basic Genestealer Cult gangs can be Lawful or Outlaw but infected gangs are automatically Outlaw <insert suggestion for a Cawdor-style Pious vs Fanatical balance cult weirdness mechanism here>.
      No Spyrer-tainted gangs mentioned as the rules predates them.
    • RAI:
      Weird Palatine Enforcer absence in rules makes me suspicious that the Enforcers were a late development addition to the contemporary Book of Ruin/Dark Uprising 2019 releases - does any other gang feel more insufficiently play-tested? They should absolutely be infectable.
      Outcast gangs have no mention of GSC in their source text. They have no access to House Favours, Exotic Pets or Brutes or special flavour House benefits even when aligned with a House, so as far as ahahahahahaahbalanceahahahahahaah is concerned it's hardly a problem. Arguably some of the various Guild and their Delegations are insular enough that they'd detect and ostracise any infected - Syphonites barely look human anymore as it stands.
      Arguably Spyrer suits would detect any ovipositors and shut that down/kill the recipient-wearer before they get infected - these suits are now specifically used for Incursions after all and are arguably full body Xenos-taint prophylactics. But these are the same suits that get damaged and glitch in battle...
      Arguably the Corpse Grinder Cult being Malstrain-susceptible opens the door for GSC-infection for Helots, CGC, Chaos-corrupted, etc... And I for one welcome the prospects of Corpse Grinder Cult players fielding three-armed infiltrating CGC Initiates for 70 credits a pop and assure them that 20 credits of common frag traps will hit the board for every 100 points of such fighters I see.
    • Fluff
      If it breeds, Genestealers can infect it. But there are exceptions: Malstrain are "destroy on sight" for OR Genestealers.
      Enforcers would absolutely be infection targets or at the very least have third or fourth generation hybrid rookies kicking around their precincts. Corrupted Cerbrean Enforcers [Book of Desolation page 10] patrolling the Dust Wall with intent to kill anyone from the Malstrain trying to come in or out would be a very fluff-appropriate.
  • Malstrain corrupted [2024's Book of Desolation page 56 - One Page Rules! who says GW is prolix?]
    • RAW
      Explicitly compatible with all Gangs that have a box/supported by a liftout in the Hive Secundus Box including Enforcers and CGC (except Ogryns *relieved sadface*).
      Predates House of Faith, so technically Articles of Faith work for them...
      Barely changes a Corpse Grinder's roster or options - confirming that a diet of unprocessed human flesh will give you the runs and that much of the Cult's specialsauce powers stem from their masks!
      Genestealer Cult (Original Recipe) omitted from list of corruptible gangs, but the see fluff below.
    • RAI
      Probably completely compatible with a basic non-aligned Outcast gang, as they both have hive scum.
      Incredibly likely deletes Articles of Faith access from Cawdor gangs as the Malstrain Patriarch is a psychic taint similar to Chaos and GSC (if insufficiently similar to GSC it's almost certainly close enough to a Chaos taint to block AoF).
      Almost certainly viable to play Malstrain Corrupted Original Recipe (and OR Corrupted) Genestealer gangs if one wanted to houserule it.
      I'd suggest houserules allowing the leader of a pure Malstrain gang to access the following process in the post-game phase A: Clean House.
      [The following italics are a suggested house rule - untested in campaign settings.]
      • Malstrain Psychic Recruitment
        50% of active genestealer cultists on Necromunda eventually succumb to the psychic emanations of the Second Son and seek to join a Malstrain brood.
        If not Captured or in Recovery, the Genestealer with the trait Gang Hierarch: Leader may spend the wrap-up sequence in silent meditation. The fighter makes a Willpower check followed by a leadership check. If both checks pass, during the Trading Post phase the gang can recruit one fighter from the Champion or Ganger options of the Genestealer Cult list from the Book of Ruin (eg: Acolyte Hybrid, Early Generation Acolyte Hybrid, Aberrant, Neonate Hybrid, Early Generation Neonate Hybrid, as detailed on pages 43-45).
        The receiving gang must pay for the full cost of this recruitment from the credits in its stash (eg: recruiting an early generation Acyolyte Hybrid will cost 130 credits).
        The recruitment otherwise must follow the the GangComposition rules and any restrictions detailed in the Malstrain gang list must be honoured.
        The newly recruited fighter can be equipped from the receiving gang's stash, but does not come with any weapons, wargear or equipment other than any armour normally included on their starting equipment - their response to the psychic lure over-rode all other instincts and they have come empty-handed. Links to psychic familiars are severed by the new bonds to the Malstrain Patriarch. If the recruited fighter has the Gang Hierarchy trait it can make post-battle actions normally.
    • Fluff
      Page 47 of the Book of Desolation says 50% of Original Recipe Genestealer Infected eventually succumb to the psychic lure of the Malstrain Patriarch. This applies to full on Genestealer imports from Neoseum or New Gidlam or Fleishgate, or corrupted House Gangs - "as often as not the signal repels the cult".
  • Chaos corrupted [Pages 8-10 of 2019's Book of Ruin]
    • RAW
      Same eligible gangs as GSC infection.
      Outcast Gangs cannot be Chaos Corrupted but can have Chaos characters as leaders - page 6 "Cultists believe in false gods or alien masters, and even Guilders worship coin andpay homage to Lord Helmawr, while outcasts either have no core beliefs or their motivations are for things long lost" - presumably Hive Scum led by a Helot cult leader fall asleep during any attempts at a Dark Ritual?! (The fluff states that Wyrds tend to be recruited to Cults anyways). Outcasts get access to Dark Rituals and Chaos Spawn heh heh if using a resurrection package (Dark Pact, page 43 of Apocrypha) which changes the gang's alignment Outlaw but doesn't otherwise change the gang - once the leader "turns" they become a lesser equivalent version of an Outcast gang led by the Abomination of Badzone 12.
      Nothing about Squats, Nomads, Ogryn, Syprers etc, though Ogryns are known to be corruptible - a profile for a Mutated Ogryn is available in the 2024 Book Apocrypha on page 114 (costed as a Brute with a limit of one per Outlaw Gang).
      Helots and Corpse Grinders are already Chaos Gangs.
      Corpse Grinders can access the Dark Ritual action otherwise denied them via a Dark Pact from page 43 of Apocrypha.
    • RAI
      Outcasts can probably be Chaos Corrupted if led by a relevant upgraded leader.
      Probably viable to have Chaos-corrupted Spyrers and Chaos-corrupted Incursion gangs for the House gang subvariants.
      Nomads, Squats, etc are probably viable for corruption. Chaos-corrupted Ogryns are very bad boys with an aforementioned Apocrypha ruleset allowing them horrific appendages and Power Maul access (I wouldn't change the cost or profile over to the Mutated Ogryn profile - it's costed as a Brute).
      Palanite Enforcers would presumably have sufficient internal discipline to suppress Chaos corruption, but narratively it'd make sense for them to be corruptible.
    • Fluff
      James Workshop really needs to give us Chaos-corrupted Squats and Dark Mechanicus on Necromunda, because it would be cool. The conditions that created Cult Temenous are unlikely to manifest on Necromunda - though it maybe could be an Eye of Selene thing.
  • Secundan Incursion [2024's Hive Secundus for sole Spyrer leading Van Saar, 2024's Book of Desolation for the rest]
    • RAW
      Explicity listed as the six House gangs (Cawdor, Delaque,Escher, Goliath, Orlock or Van Saar), Ironhead Squat Prospectors, Palatine Enforcers or Venators on page 43 of the Book of Desolation, are treated as the base gang in addition to being a Secundan Incursion gang. The latter part of the sentence is important, as it ensures any new rules added to base gangs are accessible to Secundan Incursions (such as the list of gangs eligible for Saint's Crusades, or Van Saar access to Tek Hunters).
      No mention of other gang types, so no Slave Ogryn Incursion gangs...though the thought is hilarious.
      No mention of variant gang compatibility, but page 43's "treat as base gang" probably opens the door to GSC, Malstrain or Chaos-corrupted Secundan Incursion gangs if read literally.
    • RAI
      Secundan Incursion gangs should be able to access Saint's Crusades, if the base gang is not GSC or Chaos corrupted (as the corruption takes up the Saint's calling slot).
  • Saint's Crusade [2023 - Aranthian Succession - Vaults Of Temenos, pages 50-55]
    • RAW
      Very broadly written as available to any gang that isn't corrupted by Chaos or Genestealer influence or outright a Chaos or Genestealer gang - those taints interfere with the callings of the Saints. Ogryn Crusaders following the Lord of Gunk with Arc Welders is a wonderful idea. (Note: RAW Arc Welders affected by the Lord of Gunk gain Unstable but do not have ammo dice - they should probably gain Reckless as per other Unstable substitutions).
      Predates Malstrain rules, but see above.
      No incompatibility with Spyrer or Secundan Incursion gangs if they are uncorrupted.
    • RAI
      Ruling out Chaos and Genestealer corruption probably intended to rule out Malstrain base or corrupted gangs.
    • Fluff
      The type of low-key heroism and psychic powers shown by Saints Crusade gangs would likely be indistinguishable from Chaos or Genestealer psychic powers in the fluff, and those factions already have psychic powers eminating from a source of faith. Though I note the Tau have reports of their own Saint now, so...?
 
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OK, I'm an idiot.
So I literally replied in this thread same day about the Malstrain and Original Recipe Genestealers co-existing the the same space (with the Malstrain capable of corrupting the Genstealers), but failed to include this possibility in the breakdown.
The entry for Original Recipe Genestealers will be updated to reflect the fluff, as will Malstrain.
And I finally read the rules for Ogryns and OMG they're appalling, I love 'em.
 
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As usual, GW's enthusiasm for something new gets the best of them. Half of the Necromunda Genestealer Cults are Malstrain corrupted? What? Really? C'mon! The ONLY good that can possibly come from that is maybe a Genestealer Cult could get actual Genestealers (albeit, spikey ones).
 
The Necromunda writers have a very tenuous grasp with the wider 40k lore at best, at this pace it's almost worth treating it as it's own alternate universe
 
No, they know Necromunda. But, familiarity breeds contempt. Not to get into the details, but In THEIR lore, Genestealer Cults on Necromunda can be widely dispersed, and originated at different times and places. And probably still do with genestelaers and infected arriving on cargo ships, etc. Just like GSC's in the greater 40K. Secundus is one hive with a unique Malstrain GSC. They can write it as dominant, but that don't mean it replaces all GSC on Necromunda. They don't say that it does. So, that means in the lore the "regular "GSC" is still valid. As are GSC infected gangs. But, because a Malstrain infected gang can get actual Genestealers, that is an attractive option, IMHO. And, they got to sell product. They always leave themselves an out, anyway.
 
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