So can the vehicle crew belonging to a specific house use the house special rules, like Goliath road thugs Gene smithing, Orlock iron riders Legendary names? Or can Escher vehicles with gas or toxic weapons use Alchmey improved ammo?
N18 Vehicle crew and house specials
- Thread starter Sump Thing
- Start date
There's no reason they can't access to it. The change in battlefield doesn't change the house they belong to. Therefore they have have access to and can use house only item.
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It's certainly not intended and will break the game in all sorts of ways, both balance-wise and mechanically. Those gang-specific bonuses are intended for traditional fighters only, not semi-fighter like crew.
I failed to see why in terms of fluff and for the moment also in term of crush. I can't find a single that say no you can't. I do agree that having a specific pet folowing a dirt bike can be silly but not why an eschers cutters that can relase gaz can't release enhanced gaz improved by improve alchemy.
It's possible that i m wrong on that. I think an example of situation may help. for the moment if fall under the house rulling for me.
It's possible that i m wrong on that. I think an example of situation may help. for the moment if fall under the house rulling for me.
When you speak of pets, dirtbikes and escher cutters, you are talking about something else entirely. None of those are vehicle crew. Having a pet and a mount is perfectly legal and probably intended, at least it won't break the balance or mechanics.
How do you intend on using Reduced Bone Density on a Road Thug? You're reducing the cost to 15 credits, yet ignore the consequences as crew has neither S nor T to reduce by the genesmithing. Same goes for so much else. How do you figure One Shot works on an Iron Rider? They can't use the Shoot action.
You're not going to find any reference in these N20 rules explaining it can't be used with crew from N22 rules. Cause crew didn't exist back then. And unfortunately, new rules rarely take old rules into account, so N22 rules probably skipped this for crew. It should be fairly obvious they won't combine well. It would be a very long and exhaustive list to make anyway.
How do you intend on using Reduced Bone Density on a Road Thug? You're reducing the cost to 15 credits, yet ignore the consequences as crew has neither S nor T to reduce by the genesmithing. Same goes for so much else. How do you figure One Shot works on an Iron Rider? They can't use the Shoot action.
You're not going to find any reference in these N20 rules explaining it can't be used with crew from N22 rules. Cause crew didn't exist back then. And unfortunately, new rules rarely take old rules into account, so N22 rules probably skipped this for crew. It should be fairly obvious they won't combine well. It would be a very long and exhaustive list to make anyway.
Fair points, i disagree on just one the escher cutter any toxyn that work on a blade could work on a flyby attack. That being said i understand your logic.
Escher cutter is a fighter, not crew, and is not part of this discussion in any way or limited by the topic of this discussion. Possibly Esher chems could be abused by mounts, haven't looked into it. Regardless, it would be a topic for another discussion. On the other hand, I believe Helions can take chems, which makes it a bit more complicated. However it will probably break both in terms of balance and game mechanics.
RAW, no, because all those rule sets refer to fighters, not models, so can't be applied to vehicles. In the case of Goliaths specifically, the Gene-smithed upgrades are further limited by whether the fighter has Gang Hierarchy (Leader) or (Champion), or Gang Fighter (Juve), (Prospect) or (Ganger) with no mention of Gang Fighter (Crew) and while that is obviously because Crew didn't exist at time of writing, in absence of an errata to add them to that section or mention of it in the Road Thug's rules I would assume they aren't intended to have access.
I feel that some probably could work and should be allowed, but it would depend on agreement with your arbitrator/group. As a rule of thumb I'd say anything that does not work in it's entirety should not be allowed e.g. no taking Legendary Names/Gene-Smithing with a downside that is negated by being a vehicle.
I feel that some probably could work and should be allowed, but it would depend on agreement with your arbitrator/group. As a rule of thumb I'd say anything that does not work in it's entirety should not be allowed e.g. no taking Legendary Names/Gene-Smithing with a downside that is negated by being a vehicle.
I thought the crew itself was fighter? Not that it affects Gene smithing limitations (as you point out). It is such a wormhole of bad interactions I would stay far away from from applying these house gang bonuses to crew.
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It's a fighter. The word fighter need to be clarified as it can apply to an hanger on like the squat claim jumper.
In the part of the crew of certain hangers on it did "...this fighter..." and some rules seem containing the word "fighter" to have been written with gang member in mind. But by using the same word "fighter" it creates loophole.
So some changes in wording or faq is needed.
So some changes in wording or faq is needed.
Fighter has nothing to do with gang member, it is one of two types of models that are covered by the rules.
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GANG FIGHTER
Gang Fighter: Unlike other hangers-on, Ragnir is always ready for a fight. As long as he is part of the gang roster, Ragnir is treated just like a regular Ganger for the purposes of selecting a crew. Therefore, he may be chosen or randomly selected as part of his gang's starting crew just like any other Ganger.
That is an example of hangers-on.
Gang Fighter: Unlike other hangers-on, Ragnir is always ready for a fight. As long as he is part of the gang roster, Ragnir is treated just like a regular Ganger for the purposes of selecting a crew. Therefore, he may be chosen or randomly selected as part of his gang's starting crew just like any other Ganger.
That is an example of hangers-on.
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As far as I'm aware they only count as fighters for gaining XP (p.148 of Core Rulebook) and other cases where specifically stated e.g. Ridge Hauler Crew making a Trade Action during Post-Battle. They can have the 'Gang Fighter (X)' special rule and count towards that for Gang Composition, but are not 'fighters'.
It does apply to Claim Jumpers. They are a single humanoid model with a fighter charactertistic profile and a Fighter card. If you have Home Turf Advantage they might be forced to be part of your crew* for the scenario and will interact with the rules as per a fighter e.g. use fighter actions and resolve hits as per a fighter.
Yeah, that is a rule that really should have avoided duplicating terms! I'm pretty sure they did not intend this to count as a model with the 'Gang Fighter (X)' special rule as his 'Gang Fighter' rule is completely different but I guess he technically does. It should really be updated to the 'Part of the Crew' rule that other Hangers-on have. The rule saying he can be chosen like any other Ganger doesn't even make much sense given that Gangers aren't the only models you can choose to be in your crew*. I guess some scenarios might have special requirements for deploying Gangers and he'd fulfil that requirement.
*Here I'm using 'crew' to mean the models that take part in a scenario rather than the 'X (Crew)' that are a part of a vehicle model, a whole other problem with them duplicating terms!
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Ok so it's about the Hangers-on special rule called "Gang Fighter". That was previously called "Part of the Crew", which was arguably a better name. This special rule has nothing to do with anything else really, it's just a placeholder name, as you point out (not related to Gang Fighter (X), the model type 'fighter' or anything else).
I thought the original discussion here was about vehicle crew specifically, so I'm getting confused by all these other examples. I just don't see the relevance of pets, mounts, hangers-on or battlefield type.
After re-reading the rules I rediscovered that crew is a vehicle, so you're absolutely right. And only in certain circumstances are treated similar to a fighter. Of course this is an abstraction as a result of streamlining. In GorkaMorka for example, the crew was indeed a 'fighter' and the vehicle was something separate. In Necromunda they're more closely linked together. The crew is one with the vehicle and is a single model during the battle. But has certain aspects of fighter for other purposes as mentioned (also stuff like XP, advancements, injuries, death, retirement etc.).
So to put it simple, a vehicle is always a vehicle. A fighter is always a fighter. A crew is a vehicle except sometimes when considered a fighter
You are correct about all of the house gang bonuses (which is good). So that settles the discussion. Probably a lot of other gangs hopefully have similar restrictions to their special rules.
I thought the original discussion here was about vehicle crew specifically, so I'm getting confused by all these other examples. I just don't see the relevance of pets, mounts, hangers-on or battlefield type.
After re-reading the rules I rediscovered that crew is a vehicle, so you're absolutely right. And only in certain circumstances are treated similar to a fighter. Of course this is an abstraction as a result of streamlining. In GorkaMorka for example, the crew was indeed a 'fighter' and the vehicle was something separate. In Necromunda they're more closely linked together. The crew is one with the vehicle and is a single model during the battle. But has certain aspects of fighter for other purposes as mentioned (also stuff like XP, advancements, injuries, death, retirement etc.).
So to put it simple, a vehicle is always a vehicle. A fighter is always a fighter. A crew is a vehicle except sometimes when considered a fighter
You are correct about all of the house gang bonuses (which is good). So that settles the discussion. Probably a lot of other gangs hopefully have similar restrictions to their special rules.
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