N18 Versatile weapons attack through friendly units.

[Mr.E.]

We had an interesting interaction come up in our game last night,

CGC model 1 was in base to base melee combat Goliath model 1.
CGC model 2 wielding a rotary flensing saw was directly behind CGC model 1.

CGC model 2 wanted to make an attack over/through GCG model 1 targeting Goliath model 1

We determined that CGC model 2 had line of sight on Goliath model 1 and the flensing saw was at long range so received a -1 penalty to hit and Friendly fighter as enemy cover rule Page 49 under Cover which is another -1 to hit.

So, Could CGC model 2 even make the attack(s)?
Would CGC model 1 count as assisting CGC model 2 thus giving them a +1 to hit.

 

[TopsyKretts]

I'm not sure intervening models would grant cover (-1 hit modifier), but what you did sounds very reasonable considering several rules interacting at the same time. In general, I would say no model would block LOS because it would be virtually impossible for one model to hide 100% behind another. So versatile is ok and within range. In addition, the assist is also in affect. Assisting fighters must be B2B because versatile only applies when attacking (or for reaction attacks), neither applies to assisting fighters.

 

[BranBuccarcher]

Doesn't the flensing saw have reckless?

 

[Mr.E.]

I'm not sure intervening models would grant cover (-1 hit modifier), but what you did sounds very reasonable considering several rules interacting at the same time. In general, I would say no model would block LOS because it would be virtually impossible for one model to hide 100% behind another. So versatile is ok and within range. In addition, the assist is also in affect. Assisting fighters must be B2B because versatile only applies when attacking (or for reaction attacks), neither applies to assisting fighters.

Thanks for your input! From my understanding during CGC model 2's attack both CGC model 2 and CGC model 1 are engaged with Goliath model 1 thus granting assist, but during CGC model 1 and Goliath model 1 CGC model 2 isn't engaged. all in all I think we rules it alright and it was a fun battle .. to mostly melee gangs duking it out

 

[Mr.E.]

Doesn't the flensing saw have reckless?

thankfully it doesnt Melee,Knockback,Shred,Versatile

 

[TopsyKretts]

When you say page 49, that's the cover rules? -1 hit modifier from cover is only for ranged attackes, not Melee. However, there are some old rules for attacking over barricades which have similar effect in close combat:

This is an old rule that's never been reprinted since 2017, so it's up to you if you want to keep it or not.

 

[Hawkins44]

thankfully it doesnt Melee,Knockback,Shred,Versatile

Given the nature of the weapon, it should have Reckless rule, since it is a saw of a cord the ganger spins around.

 

[Heart of Storm]

I'll have a dive through the rulebook but I think the solution you've come to as a group is perfectly valid.

 

[Guydob]

Line of Sight shouldn't even matter to Versatile, Vision Arc does.

 

[Thorgor]

Line of Sight shouldn't even matter to Versatile, Vision Arc does.

I disagree, as it allows a polearm to phase through a wall.

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

I disagree, as it allows a polearm to phase through a wall.

That sounds completely fair. /s

 

[daveh]

if you can see the target and have the versatile distance to reach , it should be fine

 

[Scabs]

Versatile is REALLY simple. It allows for a close combat attack without being engaged in base-to-base, to the range of the weapon. That's it. That's all. It is NOT a ranged attack. So, no LOS, no closest target, no cover. Oh, and we don't measure through walls or impassible terrain. So no "phasing through walls." When they added Versatile weapons with ranges longer than 2", things can get strange looking. But they didn't make it more complicated. Adding anything is house rules. Which is YOUR call. I'm not a fan of "no LOS attacks," but that's just me.

Unless there is an obscure rule or an FAQ, because the target is engaged by one friendly fighter, the CGC model with flensing saw would get an assist for the attack(s).

 

[JawRippa]

Versatile is REALLY simple. It allows for a close combat attack without being engaged in base-to-base, to the range of the weapon. That's it. That's all. It is NOT a ranged attack. So, no LOS, no closest target, no cover. Oh, and we don't measure through walls or impassible terrain. So no "phasing through walls." When they added Versatile weapons with ranges longer than 2", things can get strange looking. But they didn't make it more complicated. Adding anything is house rules. Which is YOUR call. I'm not a fan of "no LOS attacks," but that's just me.

Unless there is an obscure rule or an FAQ, because the target is engaged by one friendly fighter, the CGC model with flensing saw would get an assist for the attack(s).

I don't think that GW has fixed versatile weapons being able to extend range of non-versatile weapons RAW. Since the wielder of the versatile weapon is allowed to engage someone 2" away, and it does not mention that the attacker has to pick only versatile weapons with sufficient range during that fight, so you could stab someone 2" with a fighting knife just because you have a shock stave.

Versatile is simple in principle, but GW has managed to step on every rake while writing its wording which is quite amusing.

 

[Scabs]

"the attacker has to pick only versatile weapons with sufficient range" is adding a rule. Additionally, there is no rule that says weapons without the Versatile trait can attack outside of base-to-base. I see what you did there.

Versatile is not simple in principle. Versatile is simple, period. It has one purpose. Add to that at your own risk.

 

[Scabs]

For the record and FWIW, I'm NOT taking sides here. We've had all the "issues," too. With the Versatile trait's rules, as Mediocre Moderator my advice is less is more. It really only has one simple function.