N18 Vote: Master-crafted, is it gone? N18-N20+ comparison

[TopsyKretts]

According to the rules of 2018 (N18), Master-crafted is as follows:

• Status item at the trading post
• Rarity (10)
• Cost 25% of the weapon's cost (rounded up to nearest 5 credits)
• Re-roll a failed hit once per round.

Master-crafted changed in the "House of" books 2020-2021 (N20+):

• Trait
• Fixed cost for selected weapons in each (house) gang's equipment list.
• Some times 25% of the weapon cost (rounded up), sometimes with a 5 credit discount (not uncommon for any item in these lists).
• Re-roll a failed hit once per battle.

So how do you play this in your campaigns? Do you keep both at the same time? Do you merge them, nerfing the N18 to only re-roll once per battle? Or you discard the N18 master-crafted, treat the N20 as a replacement (and by that effect, only those listed in the equipment lists are available and only to House gangs)?

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

It should always have been once per battle, once per round was super OP

 

[almic85]

Nerfing to once per game is probably a better option, but I think the actual answer is that the official trading post needs to be completely redone into a single place.

In the interim I would just remove it from the trading post given how many master crafted weapons are available on the fighters weapon lists.

 

[TopsyKretts]

That would take it away from all the non-House gangs.

 

[almic85]

I have a fundamental lack of caring for non-house gangs in N20.

 

[MusingWarboss]

That would take it away from all the non-House gangs.

I have a fundamental lack of caring for non-house gangs in N20.

You mean all the ones they quickly stuck in to cover for the fact they hadn’t released all the Houses at the beginning and which we probably wouldn’t see for a year?

The ones they don’t really care about much so ended up as an insert in some random books because the kits are for another game system entirely or simply don’t exist?

Yeah we probably shouldn’t put too much emphasis as full “gangs” on those unless they decide to give us a fancy upgrade sprue or resin kit to fit the 40k kits specifically to include Necromunda options.

 

[LekyRyu]

The "RAW" answer is that both coexist. Which is utter bull crap because one is a Status Item (Exotic Good Master Crafted Weapon) which has its own rules and the other is a weapon named Master Crafted X which on top of the normal stat block of weapon X it has the master crafted Weapon Trait.

Since that's crap I'd say that option 2 is the best of both worlds.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

I don't agree that they coexist, the devs have stated in an interview that they prefer to reprint rules correctly instead of FAQing them.

So if the same rule appears differently in multiple places, the most recent should be considered correct for all prior publications as well.

 

[JawRippa]

I’m against any rerolls in D6 skirmish game in general. But out of these two, once per battle is a lot more tame, my only problem with it is that it adds bookkeeping. Every round is just nuts.

 

[MusingWarboss]

I don't agree that they coexist, the devs have stated in an interview that they prefer to reprint rules correctly instead of FAQing them.

So if the same rule appears differently in multiple places, the most recent should be considered correct for all prior publications as well.

It makes total sense that the newest version should be the go-to one.

However... it’s just annoying to have to buy new books to get a correction.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

I agree, it's a super shitty approach

 

[TopsyKretts]

I don't agree that they coexist, the devs have stated in an interview that they prefer to reprint rules correctly instead of FAQing them.

So if the same rule appears differently in multiple places, the most recent should be considered correct for all prior publications as well.

This is different though. Master-crafted is 2 things:
1) Trading Post 'item' with a cost and rarity.
2) A Trait with an in-game effect for a weapon.

The in-game effect has clearly changed. It is now a Trait (semantics), but most importantly it's been reduced from once per round to once per battle. That's great.

But the Trading Post 'item'? Nothing released so far has invalidated this. It should only be updated to add the Trait to the weapon.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

Master crafted is clearly meant to be the same thing. All those differences are the just the corrections they've made.

 

[TopsyKretts]

The same thing as what? Master-crafted is currently 3 separate things in my mind.
1) N18 Trading Post 'item' (cost, rarity)
2) N18 in-game effect (re-roll once per round)
3) N20+ Trait, in-game effect (re-roll once per battle)

Having something listed in a gang equipment list never indicated it was removed from the trading post. Delaque may have gained access to Cameleoline Cloak in their lists, doesn't mean it's no longer available at the Trading Post. Same logic applies to Master-crafted. Sure, N20+ explicitly have it listed for House gangs for some of the weapons. Sometimes at full cost (25%), some times at a discount. Just like many other items that also co-exist as a Trading Post option and in a gang equipment list.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

+25% cost of weapon to allow you to reroll 1 hit per battle.

 

[TopsyKretts]

The N20+ rules only update the re-roll part though. Introducing it in the gang equipment list has the following consequences:

• Can be discounted (ie less than 25%).
• Can be purchased before the first battle.
• Can be purchased as a Common item without visiting the Trading Post.
• Is not a Trait (no mechanical change, just presentation/layout).

None of these consequences implies it's no longer +25% cost with Rarity(10), available at the Trading Post to any gang for any weapon.

 

[LekyRyu]

I don't agree that they coexist, the devs have stated in an interview that they prefer to reprint rules correctly instead of FAQing them.

So if the same rule appears differently in multiple places, the most recent should be considered correct for all prior publications as well.

So you're not contradicting me.

The first rule comes from an exotic goods item. The second is a trait. It's not the same rule as the item doesn't even give the weapon a trait. So while I agree and I voted by 2 they are just being lazy and hoping everyone assumes that the item disappeared.

I agree with an early post that they need to reprint the trading post

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

I'm saying they should be the same.

The only reason it became a trait is because they felt it was clearer that way (see the confusion regarding Kal Jerico's Master Crafted Hotshot laspistol).

So I'm saying the new rules contradict the trading post. So from the trading post you buy a mastercrafted weapon that gains the mastercrafted trait.

 

[LekyRyu]

We're saying the same then. We agree that we feel it should be this way but we know that they aren't because gw never stated the item disappeared

 

[Jakkarra]

I don't agree that they coexist, the devs have stated in an interview that they prefer to reprint rules correctly instead of FAQing them.

So if the same rule appears differently in multiple places, the most recent should be considered correct for all prior publications as well.

That'd be all well and good if they didn't keep reprinting the same rules incorrectly book after book. They seriously need to;

A: Hire a fucking intern to proof-read their books even slightly.

B: Actually start making an effort with regards to FAQs and clarifying rules.

Obviously neither of these are going to happen.