Weapons and Equipment Direction

[oGRE3]

I propose:

COMMON WEAPONS - according to the setting [in a ork savage world, maybe primitive/ork weaponry can be common], weapon of this category is available to everyone: an eldar could turn up his nose upon a bolter but, in dire times, he'll use it.
apart from this, follow the NCE.

UNCOMMON WEAPONS - follow the NCE.

RARE WEAPONS - everybody can use these weapons but nobody except the appropriate gangs can buy them at the start.
apart from this, follow the NCE.

EXCLUSIVE WEAPONS - just the original owners can buy and use them but, under the right circumstances, rare, lucky gangers can be able to manage them.

 

[tribeof1]

@Tiny pretty much covered my position, so I won't repeat.

As for "exclusive" stuff, there's still a possibility someone would be able to mod it for use by other races, or that another faction would have something mechanically similar. I could totally see a Slaanesh cult having something like a Banshee mask, for example.

 

[Tiny]

almost.
as a rule of thumb I agree BUT there's a lot of weapons/equipments should not be available for everyone, so I'll divide the weaponry in common/uncommon/exclusive: you can obtain a banshee mask or a shokk-attack-gun but no way an ork can use the banshee mask or everyone else can use a shokk attack gun.

Agreed a few very outlandish weapons should be species specific. The two you specify are good ones, although there would be case for anyone to be able to use a banshee mask as it is just a mask that makes a scream. Only Orks should get a Shokk attack gun for sure as only Orks know how to operate it (and have access to the snotlings).

disagree: a lot of weapons can be easily assimilated [an eldar lasgun IS an imperial lasgun] but other ones cannot; the reaper launcher can shoot a small salvo of lighter missiles or the usual single krak/frag/plasma/whatevah missile and this is a peculiarity of the eldar reaper launcher.

Depends which version of the 40k rules you're looking at. When Necromunda was created, Eldar had missile launchers the same as humans did.

I'll include them as exclusive weaponry.
then, maybe, any mars tech-guy with the "specialist" skill can use ALL strange adMech stuff.
and, remember, just the special equipments of the exarch should be treated as "exclusive": assault guardians use fusion gun/pistols, powerfists [in 2nd edition] and chainswords like fire dragons and striking scorpions but just exarch/aspect warriors can use the heavy dragon armor and the mandiblaster.

This has the potential to cause a lot of grumbling i.e. why can't the Scorpion Exarch pass his Scorpion Claw to the regular Striking Scorpion in the warband? Why is it only the Magos can hold the "Sparklepistol"? etc. Fair enough to say the weapon is only usable by species but to limit to one fighter seems odd. I would make them just super rare (maybe costs a rare trade and must roll a 4+ to locate) outside of a warbands weapon lists. That would be easy enough by adding a "Super Rare" keyword.

 

[oGRE3]

Agreed a few very outlandish weapons should be species specific. The two you specify are good ones, although there would be case for anyone to be able to use a banshee mask as it is just a mask that makes a scream. Only Orks should get a Shokk attack gun for sure as only Orks know how to operate it (and have access to the snotlings).

the banshee mask is not a simple "mask that screams": it relies on the psionic ability every eldar has, so we've an excuse to limit it to very few model.

Depends which version of the 40k rules you're looking at. When Necromunda was created, Eldar had missile launchers the same as humans did.

View attachment 10259

you're right, man but we're trying to mix 2nd and 7th version equipments, so, I thinked eldar reaper launcher could be a bit more flexible than the clumsy imperial one.

This has the potential to cause a lot of grumbling i.e. why can't the Scorpion Exarch pass his Scorpion Claw to the regular Striking Scorpion in the warband? Why is it only the Magos can hold the "Sparklepistol"? etc. Fair enough to say the weapon is only usable by species but to limit to one fighter seems odd. I would make them just super rare (maybe costs a rare trade and must roll a 4+ to locate) outside of a warbands weapon lists. That would be easy enough by adding a "Super Rare" keyword.

sorry, I didn't notice the presence of EXARCHS in the lists
I think just the aspect warriors should be available: after every XP advance, he/she must check if he becomes "lost in the path" [exarch] or if he/she have still the possibility to wear off his/her mask and change his path.
so, if an aspect warrior becomes exarch, his/hes panoplia become exclusive to him/her.
a simple aspect warrior, after all, should still be able to walk other paths or, maybe, becoming autarch.
but, still, let's avoid to mix exclusive items too easily.

 

[Tiny]

sorry, I didn't notice the presence of EXARCHS in the lists

Depends which list you are using, 2.0 or (as yet, non-existent) 3.0. The current 2.0 one has a "Leader" who can choose an "Aspect" and so become an "Exarch". For 3.0 as with every ohter warband, who the player chooses to be leader is up to them. If the player wants it to be an Exarch, Autarch, Warlock, Chief Ranger, Guardian Sergeant, or a Renegade Corsair Lord, it is up to the player. The stats and cost are the same regardless of who they choose.

While forcing an aspect warrior down a specific path is fluffy, they are unlikely to change their path within the course of a campaign. If we're going to use paths, they will need to be chosen upon creation and be set for the life of the fighter. The likelihood of a single Aspect Warrior to progress to become an Autarch within the space of a few months (the likely span of most campaigns) would be very low, given the Eldar lifespan.

 

[Gregor Firedrake]

@oGRE3 thanks loads for your input and enthusiasm, but @4rmless is taking the lead on weapons, please feel free to contact him and see if you guys can work on something together but don't peel off on your own as your work could be duplicated or not suitable when your done.

 

[oGRE3]

Depends which list you are using, 2.0 or (as yet, non-existent) 3.0. The current 2.0 one has a "Leader" who can choose an "Aspect" and so become an "Exarch". For 3.0 as with every ohter warband, who the player chooses to be leader is up to them. If the player wants it to be an Exarch, Autarch, Warlock, Chief Ranger, Guardian Sergeant, or a Renegade Corsair Lord, it is up to the player. The stats and cost are the same regardless of who they choose.

While forcing an aspect warrior down a specific path is fluffy, they are unlikely to change their path within the course of a campaign. If we're going to use paths, they will need to be chosen upon creation and be set for the life of the fighter. The likelihood of a single Aspect Warrior to progress to become an Autarch within the space of a few months (the likely span of most campaigns) would be very low, given the Eldar lifespan.

well... although it seems a bit strange to see an exarch with the same profile of a base wannabe-inquisitor... well, ok but, regardless of fluff, I think the aspect warrior leader of an eldar gang should be a simple "aspect warrior" [with an original rank name], so, the powerfist should become a simple "aspect weapon: striking scorpions only".
so, I vote for exclusive weapon.

 

[spafe]

Okay, This is all jumping the gun with this level of discussion. @4rmless is doing some work ahead of schedule and trying to save time later on. These general table creations are just that.

I would suggest that @4rmless , you do the obvious ones, don't duplicate stuff (we always can later on create a copy of a line). Beyond that I think you might have reached the cap of where you can progress this until we have a fair few more warbands initially written.

When we get to that stage where we are revisiting this, we can all clearly see the impact all these ideas would have, and make a more informed vote on a few key ideas. Until then, this speculation will not lead to anything productive, Thus I'm calling a halt unless @4rmless has any specific questions on how to present/tabulate stuff.

 

[spafe]

@4rmless , it might be time to revisit this and bring it back to the table (provisionally) now that we have a format and few warbands that can be seen and the species roughly hashed out too. Will mean we can see what sort of things we will need/want with a bit more clarity if you are up for taking this up again and leading a small team on this venture (if so then others who can help out, please speak up now and throw your names in the ring).

 

[Meavar]

I would not mind helping with the weapons.

 

[4rmless]

Will do. I think so far the team is me and @Gregor Firedrake, happy to have one or two more involved.

Regardless, I can confidently have a first draft up for discussion on Monday night.

 

[4rmless]

Sorry for the delay with this, I'll release the first draft in about 6 hours.

 

[4rmless]

First draft is here.

Please note that fleshing out all the weapon profiles is going to take a while and can be a collective effort. Feel free to indicate where one item is overly similar to another.

I have been thinking about the way rare trade/the bazaar could work separately and a way to show species/warband eligibility in the armoury instead of in the warband entries, but for now I think the focus needs to be on getting the items and costs right.

 

[oGRE3]

good job!

BUT
1) I think a lot of "genestealer cult" weapons should not to be exclusive to them: although these weapons didn't appear in early 40k codices, they are absolutely imperial improvised weapons [for precision sake, they are mining equipments barely adapted to combat]: they should be also available for [placeholder for underhive elements], escaped slaves, cultists, mining teams and so on; by the way, improvised guerrilla fighters who snatch industrial equipments from imperial factory and use them in combat;

2) ALL but blessed or anti-psyker imperial weaponry should be available for admech [conversion beamer and so on];

3) thunderhammer should be a two-handed weapon plus a couple of rules [mighty blow? stun?]; maybe a high-strenght [maybe 6+?] guy could be able to wield it one-handed;

4) the grabba-stick/claw could be also a placeholder for the imperial man-catcher;

5) I disagree for one-shot combi-weapons; I think the combi-stuff should have an AUTO ammo roll like flamers: necromunda is a 2nd edition WH40K conversion, so I think we should adapt close to it:

6) I'll add rules for ork mega-armor: as 3+, includes suspenders, cannot climb ladders;

7) mesh/medium armor should be available to everyone: everybody can snatch a medieval armor and wear it!

 

[4rmless]

good job!

BUT
1) I think a lot of "genestealer cult" weapons should not to be exclusive to them: although these weapons didn't appear in early 40k codices, they are absolutely imperial improvised weapons [for precision sake, they are mining equipments barely adapted to combat]: they should be also available for [placeholder for underhive elements], escaped slaves, cultists, mining teams and so on; by the way, improvised guerrilla fighters who snatch industrial equipments from imperial factory and use them in combat;

2) ALL but blessed or anti-psyker imperial weaponry should be available for admech [conversion beamer and so on];

Currently I am not specifying who has access to a weapon, that is being handled by the warband lists. I may propose an alternative in future. Are you looking at the source column and thinking that is who can have it? That's just the codex or rulebook the weapon is adapted from.

3) thunderhammer should be a two-handed weapon plus a couple of rules [mighty blow? stun?]; maybe a high-strenght [maybe 6+?] guy could be able to wield it one-handed;

4) the grabba-stick/claw could be also a placeholder for the imperial man-catcher;

Noted, I've done very little to the melee weapons. I'll get there this week.

5) I disagree for one-shot combi-weapons; I think the combi-stuff should have an AUTO ammo roll like flamers: necromunda is a 2nd edition WH40K conversion, so I think we should adapt close to it:

That's a pretty good idea, I like it. I know very little about 2nd ed.

6) I'll add rules for ork mega-armor: as 3+, includes suspenders, cannot climb ladders;

I had excluded mega armour and weapons that require it. Are we going to include terminators and crisis battlesuits too?

7) mesh/medium armor should be available to everyone: everybody can snatch a medieval armor and wear it!

Again, I am not deciding who has access to stuff yet, however mesh armour has not been available to imperial troops for any of the editions of 40k I've played.

Also, I think you're confused about what mesh armour is if you are imagining it to be medieval chainmail. Chainmail is woefully poor at protecting from bullets.

 

[oGRE3]

Currently I am not specifying who has access to a weapon, that is being handled by the warband lists. I may propose an alternative in future. Are you looking at the source column and thinking that is who can have it? That's just the codex or rulebook the weapon is adapted from.

ah, sorry, i misread

Noted, I've done very little to the melee weapons. I'll get there this week.

I had excluded mega armour and weapons that require it. Are we going to include terminators and crisis battlesuits too?

for megaarmor, due to the fact orks have no access to heavy protection, I propose a mixed solution: 3+ts [or maybe 2+] BUT with suspenders and the model cannot climb ladders; although in 2nd edition megarmor was similar to terminator one, let use it like a strange mix between a moving firing platform and a power armor.
but I'd prefer to avoid terminator and tau heavy battlesuit.
remember in 2nd edition, squat exo-suit, tactical dreadnought terminator armor and ork meg'armor used to roll 2d6 for saving throw but, in =][=inquisimunda a similar roll would be a bit excessive.

Again, I am not deciding who has access to stuff yet, however mesh armour has not been available to imperial troops for any of the editions of 40k I've played.

i was not speaking about "eldar mesh armor" but about a more generic "medium armor"

Also, I think you're confused about what mesh armour is if you are imagining it to be medieval chainmail. Chainmail is woefully poor at protecting from bullets.

yup, i know really well 2nd edition but I'd create more standard armor categories: light, middle, heavy and [placeholder for special/exclusive armor types].

 

[Tiny]

Excellent work @4rmless

I haven't had chance to go through every single item yet but will look through in the week.

In response to @oGRE3 : Why not just allow Orks to get Leader/Elite only Power Armour? It is already included in Void Pirate warband. That can look like however you want it to look.

Also I have listed Mesh and Carapace armour in the common equipment section. It should indeed be fairly common across the board.

 

[Evin Wijninga]

@oGRE3 , what you discribe, suspensors and not being able to climb ladders, is Slow and Purposeful, which is used for the Preatorian upgrade for Adeptus Mechanicus Heavy Servitor in the new warband creation rules.

Slow and Purposeful: A model with this rule counts as being equipped with suspensors and may never run or climb ladders.

 

[oGRE3]

Excellent work @4rmless

I haven't had chance to go through every single item yet but will look through in the week.

In response to @oGRE3 : Why not just allow Orks to get Leader/Elite only Power Armour? It is already included in Void Pirate warband. That can look like however you want it to look.

Also I have listed Mesh and Carapace armour in the common equipment section. It should indeed be fairly common across the board.

agree but, due to the fact the MIU is not the most orkish equipment i can conceive, my proposal was an ork power armor WITHOUT miu [and with the usual initiative malus] and suspenders and slow-and-purposeful.

 

[oGRE3]

another small point: mechadendrites.
I don't know if this thread is the correct one to discuss this small point but I'll try.
mechadendrites are small implant that grant +1A +1S for each implant attached to the model.
don't you think it's a bit exaggerated? a couple of them and you don't need more attacks or powerful weapons; a simple guy with 2 sword may became a monster with 4A 6S and 2 parries.
I think mechadendrites shoud be additional servo-arms who grant +1 additional weapon attack like, for example, a second or third laspistol [a small welding torch] just used for melee.
maybe we could lower the implant cost and/or adding bonus for tech skill, for example, or other weapon like plasma cutter/melta welder/powerfist [like the adeptus astartes servo-arm], maybe a version with ammo roll: AUTO, don't you think?