What do you like to see at gaming events?

[Flamekebab]

I was having a chat with the missus the other day about what we'd want to do if we ran a wargaming convention. Whilst we don't intend to run one this year (too short notice), I'd quite like to do one next year or the year after, depending on what life throws at me.

I'll talk around the subject a bit, throw some questions out there, and see if any of you feel like chiming in.

I've worked at more conventions than I've attended as a punter, but broadly speaking it seems to me that conventions fall into two categories for people - visit for two to four hours and all-day/multi-day to take part in tournaments. Sometimes these things take place at the same convention, of course, but these attendance patterns inform what sort of things make sense to try to offer. They don't need to try to be a thrill a minute from opening to closing for every attendee, but ideally they should offer a few hours of good times, regardless of when one steps through the doors.

Thoughts on that, lads?

Right, onwards!

Stuff I personally like to see:

• A good selection of traders I don't need four different stalls selling dice bags, I'd rather have a weird mish-mash of things. Paints, brushes, new minis, old minis, new game systems, clothing, thematic fashion accessories, mini carrying cases
• A bring and buy, priced to move. Also it should accept card so that I can make incredibly poor decisions rather than being limited by the dwindling pile of notes in my pocket.
• Talks. Doesn't have to be super specific to wargaming - could be about a relevant historical period, it could be about writing fiction (useful for roleplayers, game designers, writers, etc.), or whatever
• Live music. Not as a major thing, but it's cool if there's an area with some sort of niche music happening
• Fun food. Warm mead? Delicious cakes? Hell yes.
• Demo/participation games. I might not take part (I've not really had the chance) but it really contributes to an exciting atmosphere to see different systems being run on beautiful tables scattered around the venue.
• Costumes encouraged. Seeing people wandering around in outlandish outfits contributes to a positive vibe, I feel.
• Modelling stuff for kitbashing challenges
• Speed painting competitions (I painted a space marine in 20 minutes at CHILLCON a few months back and had a blast)

I quite liked that a convention I saw Eric ('s Hobby Workshop) attend had a tattoo artist there. That's pretty badass.

What do you guys like to see? What do you like to see? What don't you care about?

I was also thinking about if I was running an event what would be useful and fun for children attending. I got dragged to a lot of events as a child where there was absolutely nothing to do for children and I hate the notion of anyone else having to endure that. I'll post those ideas further down the thread.

 

[daveh]

people who wash and use deoderant would be a nice change.
not a usefull answer i know , but true

 

[Flamekebab]

I can't say I've noticed that being an issue at any of the UK events I've attended...

 

[ClockworkOrange]

If you fancied a go at seeing the last minute chaos that even running a small one entails, you are welcome to help with Tribemeet?

Ps. there’s about 6 of us that do stuff for the love, but unless you come up with a way of inviting lots and lots of peeps there’s not much money in it, costs like venues scale with numbers.

 

[Punktaku]

Isn’t that event run by the Hivescum podcast guys? I know they talked about it on one of their shows. Actually, I think they run a similar event around the same area called NEMO.

I’ve been to a couple conventions, but I worked more as a representative from a Waldenbooks I used to manage. For those I attended I went as a shopper. I often found the lines for events like talks and stuff were too long, so I skipped most of them. I also usually find too many of the same vendor, and most seemed to be there to sell rare items at large profits. Or tinkets. Maybe I’m just a bad attendee….

 

[Flamekebab]

If you fancied a go at seeing the last minute chaos that even running a small one entails, you are welcome to help with Tribemeet?

It's unlikely that I'll have time, but which thread should I be looking at?

Ps. there’s about 6 of us that do stuff for the love, but unless you come up with a way of inviting lots and lots of peeps there’s not much money in it, costs like venues scale with numbers.

With regards to running my own event near me, I know of several local gaming clubs in my area as well as various traders that could be invited, and social spaces that industry people hang out in. I have a potential venue scoped out and the costs involved aren't ruinous, knowing roughly how much trade tables go for. Running an event dedicated to one game system is a bit more niche and I was thinking more generally.

I’ve been to a couple conventions, but I worked more as a representative from a Waldenbooks I used to manage. For those I attended I went as a shopper. I often found the lines for events like talks and stuff were too long, so I skipped most of them. I also usually find too many of the same vendor, and most seemed to be there to sell rare items at large profits. Or tinkets. Maybe I’m just a bad attendee….

That's precisely the sort of thing I'd want to be a bit more selective about when it comes to traders, like some conventions are. Define a few categories - once those are full either a trader needs to commit to bringing different stock or skip the event. A small event doesn't need four stalls selling the same paints!

Something I'm curious about - do any of you buy new products from general purpose mini sellers? I'm assuming someone must because there's usually at least one at every convention I've attended. I've never been remotely tempted, but maybe I've just spent too many years being careful about spending money on more minis.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

@Flamekebab its a tough one, we only advertise for the Tribe admittedly, but we’ve tried offering up a weekend to play anything* this time and we seem to have lost as many as we’ve gained. Alternatively if you go “public” I honestly think you’d be taking on a massive risk without at least one gaming club or similar behind you, so it sounds like you can make it work.

For Tribemeet Newmunda split the fan base and then Covid hit which seems to have impacted its momentum we now hover around the 25-30 attendees mark, there’s a lot we’d probably do different if it was more of a business, but it’s all volunteer not for Profit.

 

[Flamekebab]

Oh, I probably should have said, I have zero interest in doing this for profit. I want it to happen because I enjoy these things and feel the world is richer for them existing.

 

[Punktaku]

The last one I went to (PaxEast) I did check out the Reaper booth, because there’s not much local at all, and I was interested in their Chronoscope line. But they didn’t have any.

The only money I spent (after confirming I was allowed to with my Yakwife) was at a booth demoing a game that hadn’t been released yet (Krosmaster Quest). I did pick up Krosmaster Arena and some miniature sets (molded plastic, like funcopop stuff) because I love the related show (Wakfu). I eventually got Quest, but it’s overburdened by rules. Think like a video game interface, but done with modifiable cards and counters.

 

[Ben_S]

I'm not that fussed about talks, at least, not unless you manage to get a 'big name' - and, if you do that, I'm still not sure a talk is needed (they could simply do a Q&A, meet n greet, signing, etc).

I'm even less bothered about music or tattoos, unless actually related somehow to gaming. Otherwise, it's no different from tacking on a barbecue or 5-a-side football tournament. People may be interested in both things, but no need to combine them in the same event.

 

[Flamekebab]

The last one I went to (PaxEast) I did check out the Reaper booth, because there’s not much local at all, and I was interested in their Chronoscope line. But they didn’t have any.

The only money I spent (after confirming I was allowed to with my Yakwife) was at a booth demoing a game that hadn’t been released yet (Krosmaster Quest). I did pick up Krosmaster Arena and some miniature sets (molded plastic, like funcopop stuff) because I love the related show (Wakfu). I eventually got Quest, but it’s overburdened by rules. Think like a video game interface, but done with modifiable cards and counters.

Similarly I wanted to get some paints at a few recent events and few of the sellers had any of the ranges I was interested in. Frustrating.

I tend to be intimidated by new rule sets as the barrier to entry of learning a new system rather than a derivative of one I already know puts me off. It's something I'm trying to get over as I suspect it's stopping me from finding enjoyment in new things.

I'm not that fussed about talks, at least, not unless you manage to get a 'big name' - and, if you do that, I'm still not sure a talk is needed (they could simply do a Q&A, meet n greet, signing, etc).

I'm even less bothered about music or tattoos, unless actually related somehow to gaming. Otherwise, it's no different from tacking on a barbecue or 5-a-side football tournament. People may be interested in both things, but no need to combine them in the same event.

Sure, but what do you like to see? What actively appeals to you?

 

[Ben_S]

Mainly the traders.

I suppose one thing that isn't on your list could be demonstrations/tutorials - not demonstration games, but the chance to see (and maybe even try) new products, like paints or whatever.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Just a note on stalls - you have to have quite a footfall to make it viable for them to come along, an event for 50 gamers, 25 tables isn’t enough to make it work. Only say 10% would buy something and even at 50% mark up that’s some fairly big ticket item sales for them to be earning even minimum wage, especially if you charge them for a stall.

 

[Flamekebab]

Mainly the traders.

I suppose one thing that isn't on your list could be demonstrations/tutorials - not demonstration games, but the chance to see (and maybe even try) new products, like paints or whatever.

I like that! I'd love to see things like demonstrations of how to do oil paint streaking and things like that.

Just a note on stalls - you have to have quite a footfall to make it viable for them to come along, an event for 50 gamers, 25 tables isn’t enough to make it work. Only say 10% would buy something and even at 50% mark up that’s some fairly big ticket item sales for them to be earning even minimum wage, especially if you charge them for a stall.

If one can't get at least 100 people to show up it's not really worth doing. I've had barbecues with more people than that and that's without the five-a-side football to bring 'em in

 

[ClockworkOrange]

I admire your confidence! and sorry if Im coming across as being negative, its just I’ve walked this path and I know how difficult it is to grow past the faithful core of Wargamers!

I’ll chuck in a few more things to think about and then leave you alone:

Theming/campaign/event rules etc - this is a big task in itself and takes way longer than you expect.

Ticket Sales - Our experience suggest £25 a day seems to be the limit people will pay, but how are they going to pay? you’ll need a shop front website, it’ll have sales fees…..Kickstarter is an alternative, but they charge you for your money. PayPal payments? Every fecker charges you etc etc.

Bank Account - Do you need a separate bank account? it makes life much easier, but it’s rather hard to get a club one which means it’ll be in someone’s name.

Advertising - Do better than us! it needs to be more than here and Facebook

Scenery - I suppose a few rubbish boxes are ok initially but you’ll need a lot of decent stuff for the main tables, oh and you’ll need 4x6 tables, so this normally actually 2 tables so 100 people need 100 tables covered by enough scenery to cover 2400 square feet…..not many dedicated venues will have enough.

Event gifts - Peeps expect something, a model etc easier now with 3D printing but still takes a fair bit of time and £££ to provide.

Prizes - as above. Sponsorship is also possible and we’ve been lucky enough to maintain a few. However you soon run into the footfall problem again.

Insurance - it’s boring but you need event insurance to at least potentially maybe give you a defence if someone sues you!

Venue costs - you need somewhere you can set up at the day before and potentially take down the day after.

Watch the Budget - it’s easy for it to run away from you and the event start costing you, the poor sod who’s name is on everything, money!

 

[Flamekebab]

I admire your confidence! and sorry if Im coming across as being negative, its just I’ve walked this path and I know how difficult it is to grow past the faithful core of Wargamers!

This isn't my first rodeo, although whether it's achievable this far into Wales and in such a way as to make the numbers add up remains to be seen. I've not run the numbers yet and it might turn out not to be possible, but hey, I'm not going to give up without at least a bit of a go, even if that's just this thread and a few conversations with friends.

Theming/campaign/event rules etc - this is a big task in itself and takes way longer than you expect.

I would be looking to delegate that to the local clubs, albeit with support. I don't have strong opinions as to what to offer as it would depend what local demand is like.

Ticket Sales - Our experience suggest £25 a day seems to be the limit people will pay, but how are they going to pay? you’ll need a shop front website, it’ll have sales fees…..Kickstarter is an alternative, but they charge you for your money. PayPal payments? Every fecker charges you etc etc.

Bank Account - Do you need a separate bank account? it makes life much easier, but it’s rather hard to get a club one which means it’ll be in someone’s name.

Is that a tournament entry fee? I ask because the conventions I've attended ask at most £5 for a single day, others are even free.

In terms of how to handle money and ticketing I'm less concerned. I've written ticketing systems as a contractor, run events of various formality levels, so that side of things is more of a chore than anything intimidating. Running ecommerce systems and the like also aren't a concern - been doing that for aaaages. Similarly I've created a club account for a podcast that's still chugging away so I'm not too fussed there.

I'm interested in the crowd-funding angle though. That'd be part of the initial feasibility discussion and calculations.

Advertising - Do better than us! it needs to be more than here and Facebook

This is the biggy for me - it's why I'm interested in what people might like. Doing an event with too narrow an appeal from a standing start feels like a recipe for failure to me. Things that encourage +1s seem sensible to me, even if they arguably dilute the focus. There's also an element of building a brand - the second year of an event is easier if the first year demonstrated that there's likely to be plenty to see and do.

Getting the word out and finding out what will get people to show up is the area I anticipate being hard. Lots of this stuff isn't so much hard as tediously necessary (tables and chairs don't move themselves...) but when it comes to what people think they want, that's harder. I phrase it that way because what we will go to an event for varies - it might not actually be what we enjoy when we get there, but it's why we went in the first place, you know?

Scenery - I suppose a few rubbish boxes are ok initially but you’ll need a lot of decent stuff for the main tables, oh and you’ll need 4x6 tables, so this normally actually 2 tables so 100 people need 100 tables covered by enough scenery to cover 2400 square feet…..not many dedicated venues will have enough.

Anyway, what do
Those numbers very much look to be based on a tournament-only approach, one which I think is a bit outside the scope what I have in mind.

However the broader point of providing terrain actually appeals to me a fair bit. Fortunately I have access to things like casting materials and hot wire cutting and the like to be able to be able to quickly populate tables with terrain. I could see needing to populate ten to twenty tables, which is doable with a bit of lead time and a good plan. I have access to some suitable places to store that sort of thing and a large van to shift it to the venue. Things like the problem solving of this are what appeal to me about running an event!

Event gifts - Peeps expect something, a model etc easier now with 3D printing but still takes a fair bit of time and £££ to provide.

I'm in the process of sculpting something for just such a purpose for an event in December, as it happens!

Prizes - as above. Sponsorship is also possible and we’ve been lucky enough to maintain a few. However you soon run into the footfall problem again.

As in, tournament prizes? Or? I'm not sure what's expected on this front. I know as a trader I've contributed stock to an event's raffle, but beyond that I could do with some context.

Insurance - it’s boring but you need event insurance to at least potentially maybe give you a defence if someone sues you!

Yep, see above boring stuff to do with bank accounts and the like. Nuisance but necessary.

Venue costs - you need somewhere you can set up at the day before and potentially take down the day after.

Mustering space is a bit of a tricky one, but I reckon I can probably manage to provide somewhere suitable. It's not something I had considered though, and you're right!
I once lived in a field for two weeks for a two day event. Hopefully this can be a bit less involved than that!

What I will say is doing my head in is floorplans. What is with venues and not publishing them?! They'll say meaningless things like "seats X". I don't care about seating them unless it's an auditorium!

With one event I measured up the tables and the rooms and designed a stall layout that would guide the flow of people, rather than a traditional grid layout. That involved a lot of tape measure work and scraps of paper but the end result was worth it.

Anyway, I'm anticipating a lot of visiting the place and wandering around with a notepad and tape measure to find out whether the space is realistically useful for convention purposes.

Watch the Budget - it’s easy for it to run away from you and the event start costing you, the poor sod who’s name is on everything, money!

This is why I'm thinking about the scope of this and, aha, wargaming it, first.

Anyway, what do you like at conventions, @ClockworkOrange?

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Ive been to many big and small Wargaming events but I’ve only been to one proper convention, Sheffield Comic Con, and found that rather disappointing. It was mainly just stalls, and everything seemed to be more expensive than the internet so I didn’t get the point.

Hammerhead https://www.hammerheadshow.co.uk/ is my ideal Wargaming event they had a room big enough for a load of stalls around the edge and many different Wargaming groups running events in the middle. It pulled off convention for Wargaming rather than tournament if that makes sense?

 

[Punktaku]

Once upon a time, I was a young lad playing first edition 40k. The local FLGS had what they called GameFest at a local hotel. I went to loads of those, and it was great fun. It was mostly a sponsored “bring and battle” on available empty tables. Board games, RPGs, 40k. There were no stalls, and admission paid for the room. All “profit” was given away as prizes in the form of FLGS gift certificates.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

That’s hopefully this years Tribemeet!

 

[Biggle_Bear]

It sounds like you have tons of relative experience. I’ve only been to one convention. Spiel. That was nothing but stalls and demo tables. The only thing tying them all together was board games but I didn’t see anything resembling a tournament.

Painting and sculpting demos sound better than talks as a hobbyist. Or a RPG in front of an audience. Other than that I can’t really say what to make a focus on. I suppose a single franchise but unless it’s GW or D&D it might be hard to get the support (or “indie skirmish games” might be a good theme). I don’t know what the demand is for that.

If you want to make a name for future events then those suggestions might not help you stand out.

I like @ClockworkOrange ’s suggestion of tables in the middle and stalls on the outside to give an open feel.

Edit: I meant to say relevant experience.