N18 What’s the deal with all the flamers

EarthDragon

Ganger
Apr 1, 2013
236
186
43
Elizabeth City, NC, USA
So is there a good explanation why flamers of all values show up on damn near all HWLs and are overly represented in the Forge World upgrade packs. Is there something I’m missing with both their significance on Necromunda and there usefulness of the battlefield?

Las, bolters, stub/auto, melta and plasma are all spotty on the HWLs, yet flamers are everywhere?!
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Champion
Nov 15, 2017
296
534
118
Edinburgh, UK
I guess it makes sense that flamers are far less complicated and far more common than plasma and melta weapons? It is that they are horribly overpriced that does not help them :(
 

Ardavion

Gang Hero
Nov 22, 2011
758
1,112
113
Limiting cheap weapons to certain houses can be an attempt to "flavour" a gang, so having a weapon for all gangs might lead to it being pricier to ensure that the "flavour" is persisted.

It is also possible that the group who originally homebrewed what became N17 were fond of flamers in their gangs as well, so took the notion of "we all REALLY like flamers" to both extremes (letting everyone have them, but pricing them out so that not everyone could have loads of them, or not have them at the start of a campaign).
 

EarthDragon

Ganger
Apr 1, 2013
236
186
43
Elizabeth City, NC, USA
I agree certain gangs aren’t gonna be fond of sissy las weapons, or archaic ballistic guns. But on the same note, certain gangs wouldn’t like the smell of of burning chemicals or people. If someone on the design team says to me “Delaque can only have one Hvy Wep on their HWL” Hvy Flamer is not what I’m landing on.

Just sayin’
 
Last edited:

Ardavion

Gang Hero
Nov 22, 2011
758
1,112
113
If someone on the design team says to me “Delaque can only have one Hvy Wep on their HWL” Hvy Flamer is no what I’m landing on.
I'd land on Heavy Stubber or Lascannon, personally ;)
 

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
117
175
53
Ljubljana
Well if you think about it, Delaques have ready access to Webguns, which are S5 silent templates; granted they'll never take their target(s) OoA immediately, but since they bypass both wounds and armor, don't need Suspensors and can be combo-ed with Hip shooting I'd say they can cope:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: spafe

Galtarr

Gang Champion
Mar 1, 2017
280
429
83
I've shared my belief on another thread that I believe the flamers thing and to some extent CC indicates that GW necro team play / playtest almost exclusively on ZM. It kinda explains why the prices lean towards flamers and other short range weapons.

The corollary is that much of the community leans equally towards 3d.

Look at it this way: Why else would Enforcers choose Combat shotguns over Bolters?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vonvilkee

Stoof

Yakmarines 2nd Co. Word Priest
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
Jun 1, 2016
2,767
8,553
213
Ellon, United Kingdom
I think in a hive the flamer makes perfect sense as a weapon that should be prolific.

• Easy to build. There's not a lot to a decent flamethrower - volatile liquid/gas/combo, canister with a diaphragm so you can compress it, tube, valve, pilot light. None hard to come by.
• Perfect for pest control. Gets into all those hard-to-reach places.
• No skill required. Why waste precious seconds aiming when you can bathe the whole area in cleansing flame?
• Great in confined spaces. Sure, your lasgun can shoot a bottlecap 50 yards away. But your target is probably hiding behind a barricade six feet away. As an underhiver you've quite possibly never seen an unobstructed 50 yards in your life.

Hell, I could go to Aldi and buy a flamethrower from the middle aisle today, and I have it on good authority *ahem* that with only light garage modification you can get a good 10-15 foot range from one.

I reckon, if anything, they should be more prolific, and cheaper, than they are - but that would likely unbalance the game.
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Champion
Nov 15, 2017
296
534
118
Edinburgh, UK
I think in a hive the flamer makes perfect sense as a weapon that should be prolific.

• Easy to build. There's not a lot to a decent flamethrower - volatile liquid/gas/combo, canister with a diaphragm so you can compress it, tube, valve, pilot light. None hard to come by.
• Perfect for pest control. Gets into all those hard-to-reach places.
• No skill required. Why waste precious seconds aiming when you can bathe the whole area in cleansing flame?
• Great in confined spaces. Sure, your lasgun can shoot a bottlecap 50 yards away. But your target is probably hiding behind a barricade six feet away. As an underhiver you've quite possibly never seen an unobstructed 50 yards in your life.

Hell, I could go to Aldi and buy a flamethrower from the middle aisle today, and I have it on good authority *ahem* that with only light garage modification you can get a good 10-15 foot range from one.

I reckon, if anything, they should be more prolific, and cheaper, than they are - but that would likely unbalance the game.
How would you balance the trading post so costs were based on realistic availability, rather than effectiveness of weapon? Quite a nice topic :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stoof
Well if you think about it, Delaques have ready access to Webguns, which are S5 silent templates; granted they'll never take their target(s) OoA immediately, but since they bypass both wounds and armor, don't need Suspensors and can be combo-ed with Hip shooting I'd say they can cope:)
I didn't realise that webguns bypass armor too. Terrible reading by me again, though I spose that makes sense.
 

Stoof

Yakmarines 2nd Co. Word Priest
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
Jun 1, 2016
2,767
8,553
213
Ellon, United Kingdom
How would you balance the trading post so costs were based on realistic availability, rather than effectiveness of weapon? Quite a nice topic :)
Yes, it'd be an interesting one for discussion. Lasguns would probably be cheapest - everywhere, rechargeable, simple (by 40k standards), almost idestructible. Then things quite easily home-made - grenade launchers (but not necessarily the ammo), flamethrowers, hand grenades (well, pipe bombs and the like - potentially of use in home-made grenade launcher). Then your weapons that require ammo manufactured to certain tolerances. The guns themselves may not be rare, but they require actual maintenance and you are reliant on a supply of the correct ammunition for them. Are auto/stubgun bullets stanard across every auto/stubgun in the 40k universe? Potentially I suppose.

Then your special stuff at the top end - plasmas, meltas, bolters etc that require not only special ammunition but also a higher degree of maintenance and technical skill.
 

necrobot

Ganger
Tribe Council
Mar 14, 2012
83
80
58
Yes, it'd be an interesting one for discussion. Lasguns would probably be cheapest - everywhere, rechargeable, simple (by 40k standards), almost idestructible. Then things quite easily home-made - grenade launchers (but not necessarily the ammo), flamethrowers, hand grenades (well, pipe bombs and the like - potentially of use in home-made grenade launcher). Then your weapons that require ammo manufactured to certain tolerances. The guns themselves may not be rare, but they require actual maintenance and you are reliant on a supply of the correct ammunition for them. Are auto/stubgun bullets stanard across every auto/stubgun in the 40k universe? Potentially I suppose.

Then your special stuff at the top end - plasmas, meltas, bolters etc that require not only special ammunition but also a higher degree of maintenance and technical skill.
feels like that does sort of get reflected by the creds differences. Grenade launchers are pretty cheap considering their effectiveness vs. say a bolter.

I'd assume auto and stubgun bullets are pretty easy, they're basically not that different from the weapons we have today from what I remember. Basically just semi-auto pistol, assault rifle, etc..