N18 Which Hangers-On do you hire first in a campaign? redux.

[Aulenback]

Redux - which is to say here is a reprise and revision of the poll at

N18 - Which Hangers-On do your hire first?

Curious what the most frequently hired Hangers-on are in your campaign -

yaktribe.games

since folks seemed interested, and also since there have been a scattering of new Hangers-On (and a wealth of new Brutes) to be considered. All official to date* Hangers-On are now listed, Law Abiding, Outlaw, and ... uncertain.

Only the gang-specific Hangers-On have been lumped together. Those include:
Apprentice Clan Chymist (Escher)
Claim Jumper (Squat Prospectors)
Cogitator Core Servitor (Van Saar)
Grease Monkey (Orlock)
Pit Trainer (Goliath)
Prize Fighter (Orlock)
Psychoteric Thrall (Delaque)
Shivver (Escher)
Spyker (Delaque) * N18 edition, uncertain N23 edition
Anthromite Herder (Nomads)
Flagellator (Cawdor)
Hive Preacher (Cawdor)

 

[Aulenback]

So far, already seeing trends out of these first eleven votes?

Ammo Jack is an in-scenario effect, helping ammo checks, and so can be helpful in preventing a win turning into a loss through failed weapons, though for more valuable weapons with harder Ammo Checks, the hanger-on's special rule really doesn't seem to help as much as their Munitioneer skill does when they are (rarely) on the table.

Hammer of Math: Necromunda Ammo Checks

It’s been just a little bit of time since Hammer of Math went into the Underhive, but we’re back this week with a look at the math behind Ammo checks. Click. Nearly every ganger fears t…

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Several of the other early pulls are economic.

Bullet Merchant, Rogue Doc, and Scabber all reduce the cost of either Trade goods, or Doc runs, by a fixed and reliable value, and/or improve access to Rare Trade items, or both. Scabber (like Underhive Trader Connected Trader) reduces the cost of one Trading Post item by 20 credits after every scenario, so that is certain to pay for itself after two games and be netting a reliable "profit" every game after that. Rogue Doc won't be (hopefully) effective after every scenario, as it only triggers on a particular Lasting Injury roll, but when it does trigger, it makes for a huge swing in costs. The Bullet Merchant instead affects rarity of Ammunition types for various weapons (such as shotguns, or autoguns, or grenade launchers), and removes the cost to re-buy Limited ammunition types, which will eventually make them pay for themselves, but less reliably so than the Scabber or Underhive Trader Connected Trader.

The Fixer is also economic, pulling in D3x10 credits after every match. On average, it will pay for itself after three scenarios, though it could be as many as five, and then start earning a profit. Less reliable economically than the Underhive Trader or Scabber, with their consistent 20 credits every game, it holds the POSSIBILITY of maybe if lucky gaining 30 credits after every match. It statistically should average out the same as the other two, and you can spend the credits on anything, and not only Trading Post items.

Last out of this first batch of votes, the Whisper Merchant can be economic, by using his ability on either a Territory's income roll (changing a 10 credit roll into a 60 credit roll, say), or better yet changing the rolls for special effects of Territories such as the Settlement, to gain a Juve or even a Ganger after each scenario. On average, using the Whisper Merchant economically would net about 25 credits value after each scenario, so should similarly pay for itself after two or three games, and then start netting a profit (even faster for Delaque!).

 

[Beebopalulla]

Thanks for the update.

 

[MusingWarboss]

I’ve not really made much use of any so far- so I probably shouldn’t tick boxes.

I would think though that Ammo Jacks, Rogue Docs would be pretty popular given their abilities.

Gang specifics depend but for Orlocks the Grease Monkey is very useful and the Escher have a Chem-Alcomist which almost everyone says is essential to reduce costs of their potions.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Rogues doc are less useful than they use to be since the 2023 rule book and change in assisting fighter. Plus the mediskull partially do the job saving a slot of hanger on.

 

[Aulenback]

Rogues doc are less useful than they use to be since the 2023 rule book and change in assisting fighter. Plus the mediskull partially do the jobe saving a slot of hanger on.

Hmm. Yes, that's another worthwhile thing to consider - that most hangers-on (Ammo Jack, Rogue Doc) don't actually appear on the table during most scenarios, but some hangers-on do (Psychotheric Thrall, Hive Preacher). "Hangers-on do not normally take part in battles; their role is a non-combat one. However, should a battle take place on the gang’s own turf (i.e., when the gang has the Home Turf Advantage in a scenario), roll a D6 for each Hanger-on before choosing a crew. On a roll of 1, 2 or 3, the Hanger-on is unfortunate enough to be around when the fighting starts, and must be included as part of the crew."

As such, what skills are effective will vary a lot. An Ammo Jack's Munitioneer is almost useless, as they don't appear on the table. A Rogue Doc's Medicae skill and medicae kit equipment similarly. On the other hand that Hive Preacher's Inspirational will always be relevant.

The Doc is really just there for its post-battle (special, free) Medical Escort. The Ammo Jack is just there for its reroll-1s-on-ammo-checks. On the other hand, the Fixer's Fixer is off-table effective, and is the major reason to hire one.

 

[Xisor_of_Karak_Izor]

Worth saying: Claim Jumper. Heck-ton of equipment, double-bodies (as it's Claim Jumper & the little money-maker: the Techmite Autoveyor), as well as a 1/3 chance of pilfering a territory's boons for a post-battle sequence.

Not really superb or simple in the grand scheme of things, like they're not a gateway to undreamt of power, but if you want a small bucket of alright close combat attacks, you can do worse for 60 credits.

I also voted Rogue Doc, as that's historically been my go-to too. But as noted, the changes to assist (etc) have slightly taken the edge & primacy off of all that.

Personally, I'd quite like to see Hangers-On get given more of a Brutes/Weird-Specialists/Weird-Champions treatment, e.g. as a way to buy in nifty skills on dubious bearers rather than wait for XP to earn them (or load out on champs/leaders).

Something Gang-Hierarchy(Auxiliary) - e.g. you an have half as many as you do with the Gang Hierarchy (Fighter)/Ganger rule. Kinda like 'as many as you can have Leader + Champs', but that don't themselves interfere with that calculus. Something like that. I don't have a perfect vision for it, but something that sortof means they show up (mostly as a liability) in situations where you're min-maxing. E.g. a 10-fighter scenario, and your six lascannon suspensor jockies are already down to clown? Well, all your tech-support and admin staff are coming along for the party too!

It's one thing for your gun-toting rooting-tooting tough-geezer Leader to be sporting Fixer, it's quite another thing for the S2, WS5+ unarmoured laspistol-wielder to be ambling around hampering proceedings by getting tagged along to be an extra face in the crowd. "You'll just be moral support!" "But the quarterly returns need submitting, or the House will be.... you know, pew pew, chop chop, screams..." "Get on the Ridgehauler."

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Rouge doc first, if multiple Scarce or Limited ammo types are the plan Bullet merchant even without the orlock discount is a close second.

 

[SmorcInc]

Anyone who picks fixer over the Chem Dealer probably doesn't realize that the Chem Dealer also has the Fixer skill. The Fixer hanger on only really helps for maintaining legality and alliances (which if you're using those rules it might be worth it).

Chem Dealer if you're not in an alliance or care about being outlawed has the upside of letting you get a chem without needing to go to the shop and buying it first, which is better than the nothing that Fixer has.

 

[Beebopalulla]

But you can't tell by the poll alone that legality or alliance is important or not for them and thus can't tell they realize or not if the chem dealer has fixer.

 

[SmorcInc]

But you can't tell by the poll alone that legality or alliance is important or not for them and thus can't tell they realize or not if the chem dealer has fixer.

The Chem Dealer still is providing all the important upsides of a Fixer, while also letting you buy a chem when you're out of money but will definitely get enough money from the mission+fixer to pay for it by the end of said game. It also lets you get things that involve chems lke Frenzon Collars and Bio Boosters which are very good.

My comment is mainly to take issue with the fact that the Fixer is getting votes over the Chem Dealer when they provide almost exactly the same upside but the Chem Dealer is almost always better to get first since it's unlikely you'll need the Fixer's upsides until you're a few games in and testing alliances/swapping legality are more likely to happen. Chem Dealer's ability is better when you don't have a lot of money IE: Start of a campaign.

 

[Beebopalulla]

But it may be a preference not an overlooked depending on the person. I do believe your argument is good. That's not the issue for me. The issue that i have is that you assume it's an overlooked. Argument yes, approach no.

 

[SmorcInc]

But it may be a preference not an overlooked depending on the person. I do believe your argument is good. That's not the issue for me. The issue that i have is that you assume it's an overlooked. Argument yes, approach no.

Fair, I just assumed it was like my group at the start who looked at the Fixer and just assumed their special thing was that they had Fixer because that's their name.

 

[Aulenback]

Three law-abiding hangers-on have the Fixer skill: Apprentice Clan Chymist (Escher only, 75 credits), Fixer (50 credits), and Chem Dealer (50 credits, or 25 for Goliath!). Fixer nets an average of 20 credits income after each scenario, for those thinking principally of the skill and treating the Hanger-On as a long-term investment. They will on average pay for themselves after three scenarios (more for Escher, less for Goliath).

One law-abiding and one outlaw hanger-on each have the Savvy Trader skill, which nets a consistent 20 credits off a Trading Post purchase plus a +1 to the Rare Trade roll after every scenario. So the same as the average income from Fixer, but only applied to Trading Post items (you cannot use it to pay for a new ganger, or a medical escort, say). Underhive Trader and Scabber. (50 credits and 40 credits respectively.) They will then pay for themselves after three and two scenarios, respectively.

One law-abiding hanger-on nets an average of 20 credits off a Trading Post item, but with a minimum cost. Tech Merchant. (80 credits, or 40 for Van Saar.) It will take a lot of scenarios to pay for itself, if looking at it only as an economic investment.

Whisper Merchant can also be considered economically (60 credits, or 30 for Delaque). Manipulating income rolls from Territories will net an average of 30 credits per scenario, paying for itself after two, but it has a usage cap of six times.

And Rogue Doc is also definitely an economic investment hanger on, but per-scenario averages is impossible to really calculate, as the odds per scenario of any gang having a fighter get Critically Injured are not easy for me to calculate. I mean, for me it has happened twice in seven games, but that doesn’t seem statistically “average.”

So if looking purely economically, there are a few good options to the Fixer. If looking at dancing between law-abiding and Outlaw (Cawdor, say?), the Fixer might be exactly what you need.

 

[Beebopalulla]

One law-abiding hanger-on nets an average of 20 credits off a Trading Post item, but with a minimum cost. Tech Merchant. (80 credits, or 40 for Van Saar.) It will take a lot of scenarios to pay for itself, if looking at it only as an economic investment.

I agree with most of it. The only exception is the tech merchant. he is less about earnings but more about lowering the diffiulty of finding an object that is hard to get. It also about saving money and not about earning it.

The Squat can have fun with chem dealer too. Maybe not after the new books release but for now:

This allows the gang to buy a single dose or any Chem, or items containing Chems, such as a single stimm-slug stash or medicae kit, without expending any credits.

3. CHEMICAL BONDS NEVER BREAK This fighter may use a Chem twice before it is removed from their Fighter card.

It's free drugs twice.

 

[Aulenback]

Necromunday: Hangers-on Hoedown

Necromunday is back with a look at the good, bad, and weird Hangers-on you can put on the table.

www.goonhammer.com

 

[katfezza]

Necromunday: Hangers-on Hoedown

Necromunday is back with a look at the good, bad, and weird Hangers-on you can put on the table.

www.goonhammer.com

Rogue Docs are Tier 2? They are always the first hanger on recruited round my way. Not needing to send a champion along on the escort plus a one-off flat rate of 50cr instead of 2D6x10cr every time is just too good a deal in our eyes.

 

[Aulenback]

Though I can definitely see the math - it is a 1-in-more-than-five chance of actually needing it for a given OOA, and some of those OOA gang members will be worth less than 50 credits (looking at Juves, there). For a lot of gangs, that's a big question of whether it will ever turn out to be worth it. Banking the odds, really. BUT if you do use it for one, at some point, on average you'll save 20 credits the first one (average roll minus 50 credit rogue doc cost), and more if you have to use it more than once. So it will PROBABLY save you credits in the long run. At the same time, a hanger on with Savvy Trader will net you 20 credits after every single scenario, through savings. Bullet Merchant too, in not having to re-buy any Limited ammunitions, is a savings hard to measure. With competing Hangers-On slots, I can see the argument, definitely.

And I write this as someone who has definitely lost GSC fighters to not being able to afford an actual medical escort, since Outlaws cannot get a Rogue Doc.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Plus medikit, mediskull, assistance rules save you a precious slot in your rooster.

If as a squat player i have to choose between a rogue doc and a claim jumper i will take the latter anytime.

 

[paxmiles]

Outlaw gang, so basically none of those are options.

I started with a warp horror (Brute), for my malstrain corrupted delaque.

The delaque don't really have any D2 or higher melee weapons, and in underhells, I found that to be a problem due to the genestealers that pop out of every map. Hiring a "brute" malstrain genestealers is an option too, but they are 270pts, which is a lot for any model in a starting crew, I felt. The 210pt warp horror was my most expensive model in my starting crew.

In the pre-campaign practice games, I also tried the "Scrapcode-Corrupted Ambot" which I thought was really fun, but it was a bit overpowered, though I might get one for my second brute now that the campaign has started and I have more reputation (and my opponent's have had time to improve).