If Thowing Knives were a "grenade" rather than a basic weapon do you think they would see play, or would the still not be worth it?
N18 Would You Use Throwing Knives If...
- Thread starter HugeSamples
- Start date
I agree, the weapon limitation is a thing and throwing knives being war gear instead would allow for double ccw (mix of melee and pistols) and a true basic weapon.
A nice little "silent" add on for stealth missions.
A nice little "silent" add on for stealth missions.
Making them a sidearm would devalue Stiletto Knives a bit IMO.
true, ... however they could be an upgrade for stiletto knives to make them throwable?
(like master crafted weapons, but instead throwable stiletto knives)
(like master crafted weapons, but instead throwable stiletto knives)
You're forgetting one major drawback...you wouldn't be able to fit sights to them if they were grenades 
It seems like changing them to a "grenade" is the play.
Given that grenades do not have a short range:
- would you keep the -1 to hit modifier?
- would you reduce their range to the short range profile?
Given that grenades do not have a short range:
- would you keep the -1 to hit modifier?
- would you reduce their range to the short range profile?
They would function better as having the grenade trait sure but the price will have to be ramped up considerably.
A general rule of thumb is to treat toxin weapons as a S 4 equivalent of effectiveness. Frag grenades are S3 and 30 credits and throwing knives are 10 credits.
They should still be a weapon however. A grenade required a person to pull a pin squeeze a catch and just throw it with as much accuracy as a rock or tennis ball.
A throwing knife, especially a poisoned one is a entirely different beast. For starters you need to hit the target with a blade which is only possible from 1/2 of the weapon from a spinning throw. They are not darts or javelins throwing knives spin in flight.
A Stiletto dagger is also very very different from a throwing knife. The weighting is massively different and the blades themselves are hugely different, Stilettos are long and thin while throwing daggers are short and fat. It requires vastly different knife fighting skills to use.
They really should be a seperate Combat weapon to the Stiletto knife and not a upgrade maybe a versatile weapon instead.
You can use throwing dagger in hand to hand combat but a properly designed to throwing dagger is far more akin to a punching dagger in the type of damage it inflicts while a Stiletto is closer to a rapier.
If it was a versatile melee weapon then it could be used in hand to hand and a short throw range. If you add the Grenade trait as well (taking a common sense approach around the Shoot (basic) part) it could work to add a limited amount of daggers too .
A general rule of thumb is to treat toxin weapons as a S 4 equivalent of effectiveness. Frag grenades are S3 and 30 credits and throwing knives are 10 credits.
They should still be a weapon however. A grenade required a person to pull a pin squeeze a catch and just throw it with as much accuracy as a rock or tennis ball.
A throwing knife, especially a poisoned one is a entirely different beast. For starters you need to hit the target with a blade which is only possible from 1/2 of the weapon from a spinning throw. They are not darts or javelins throwing knives spin in flight.
A Stiletto dagger is also very very different from a throwing knife. The weighting is massively different and the blades themselves are hugely different, Stilettos are long and thin while throwing daggers are short and fat. It requires vastly different knife fighting skills to use.
They really should be a seperate Combat weapon to the Stiletto knife and not a upgrade maybe a versatile weapon instead.
You can use throwing dagger in hand to hand combat but a properly designed to throwing dagger is far more akin to a punching dagger in the type of damage it inflicts while a Stiletto is closer to a rapier.
If it was a versatile melee weapon then it could be used in hand to hand and a short throw range. If you add the Grenade trait as well (taking a common sense approach around the Shoot (basic) part) it could work to add a limited amount of daggers too .
I'd want to keep things simple, likely the current profile, drop the short range, add the grenade trait.
How many credits would such a wargear be worth?
Frag Grenade: 30 credits (has blast and knockback)
Krak Grenade: 45 credits (has demolitions. this is it's closest competitor as far as a single target grenade goes IMO)
Choke Gas Grenade: 50 credits (has blast and gas)
IMO it'd have to be much less than a Krak grenade at 45 credits. I think frag serves a different niche.
somewhere in the 10 >= x < 45 range?
If the heavy flamer's anything to go by, a simple but questionably effective weapon should be, what, 90 credits? You know, just to guarantee people only take it by accident.
My gut would be to keep them the same price--I'm still not sure they'd see much more play--but I'm happy to hear what people think they should be priced at.
I will say yes to use them in three situation.
a: to cut cheese
b: at the circus
c: if they were free
But in fairness are they useful weapon or not? I don't see it. Ogryn has a BS that make a Ogryn Ninja impossible (bs5+ scarce)... Escher Wylde Runner has access to the bow wich is far better and for every other ganger at best you have Sx4 range and thus put it the same rage as most pistol.
it's not warger or weapon the issue for me but scarce.
a: to cut cheese
b: at the circus
c: if they were free
But in fairness are they useful weapon or not? I don't see it. Ogryn has a BS that make a Ogryn Ninja impossible (bs5+ scarce)... Escher Wylde Runner has access to the bow wich is far better and for every other ganger at best you have Sx4 range and thus put it the same rage as most pistol.
it's not warger or weapon the issue for me but scarce.
Considering the nature of what they are Im unsure the "scarce" part of it is much of a limitation in practice. How many shots would a character reasonably expect to even get off during the game at such a range?
In our last two campaigns my Conduit of the Saint of knives has been running gold-plated mastercrafted throwing knives for the "sick drip". I think if you are too worried about whether or not they are too efficient you aren't roleplaying enough.
Regardless, they are 10/5c for a ranged toxin weapon with -1 AP. The needle pistol is three times that, a stiletto knife is double the thrown knives. A S3 BS4+ ganger with those knices is a real threat to any champion that they can run near to and catch out of cover. It's a silent backup weapon that threatens multiwound models. How often do you run out of weapon slots (to fear spending one on knives) on your lowly gangers or +1 BS juves and prospects, as long as they have access to them?
I think if you want to compare thrown knives to another weapon it's most similar to the sawn-off, which has a similar price point, range, basic weapon and no sidearm. It has weaknesses and trade-offs but they cost next to nothing, they aren't meant to be a top dog weapon.
Regardless, they are 10/5c for a ranged toxin weapon with -1 AP. The needle pistol is three times that, a stiletto knife is double the thrown knives. A S3 BS4+ ganger with those knices is a real threat to any champion that they can run near to and catch out of cover. It's a silent backup weapon that threatens multiwound models. How often do you run out of weapon slots (to fear spending one on knives) on your lowly gangers or +1 BS juves and prospects, as long as they have access to them?
I think if you want to compare thrown knives to another weapon it's most similar to the sawn-off, which has a similar price point, range, basic weapon and no sidearm. It has weaknesses and trade-offs but they cost next to nothing, they aren't meant to be a top dog weapon.
In your case I would say 40 credits. It does have the potential to take down a 6 wound model in one hit after all.
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