N18 Wyrd powers clarification for chaos, venators, GSC, outcast

[Venik]

Delaque wyrd was clarified in the latest FAQ, but other gangs not.
Am i correct that chaos witches, venator's leaders, GSC adepts, infected gang's leaders can get powers from general disciplines?
According to wording from outcast as i understand all psykers get one power for free.
So at the start of campaign genestealer adept would have skill+wyrd power or 2 wyrd powers. Is it correct?

 

[mateyboy3000]

Delaque was the only one that needed clarification due to the wording of their rule saying 'may choose power from mad/dark/delusion' this led to not choosing a power then using BoO text to get one. This is rather clearly (at leat to me) very gamey and not the intent, which is first power must be their specialism and can then get powers from BoO. Which was made clear in the faq.

No others got a clarification as no other faction had a rule like this and it was all choose power instead of skill, which became redundant with outcasts all start with 1 rule as you chose a skill then used Outcast to choose any power you like.

BoO is explicit that any non named psyker has access to the Outcast diciplines.

You example can only be skill+power or 1 power chosen as skill, if you choose a power as your free skill the BoO text giving a power does not activate as you already have a power

 

[Venik]

You example can only be skill+power or 1 power chosen as skill, if you choose a power as your free skill the BoO text giving a power does not activate as you already have a power

Thank you!
So then Outcast champions get only wyrd power , and no skills.
Everybody else get skill +wyrd from the start.

 

[TopsyKretts]

So confusing, is this the common understanding? That all psykers effectively start skill + wyrd power now? I like it, but don't remember seeing it discussed before.

If all other psykers get it, any reason Outcast doesn't?

 

[Venik]

So confusing, is this the common understanding? That all psykers effectively start skill + wyrd power now? I like it, but don't remember seeing it discussed before.

If all other psykers get it, any reason Outcast doesn't?

That is why i have started the topic.
Only skills outcast champions has in a primary is wyrd powers...

 

[TopsyKretts]

Haha that is ridiculous. So all psykers gained a boost, effectively starting with skill AND wyrd power, except the gang that came in the same book that gave this boost. If you choose them as psykers, you lose the skill. What an anti-pattern of game design.

 

[fred.zgred]

Delaque wyrd was clarified in the latest FAQ, but other gangs not.
Am i correct that chaos witches, venator's leaders, GSC adepts, infected gang's leaders can get powers from general disciplines?
According to wording from outcast as i understand all psykers get one power for free.
So at the start of campaign genestealer adept would have skill+wyrd power or 2 wyrd powers. Is it correct?

I was looking through FAQs I could have found on google. Not, including the one from April 2022 contains any reference on to this topic. Our reference to this elusive FAQ I can find is in sections all over the internet :O Can anyone help and direct my lost soul to the source?

 

[Stompzilla]

All psykers don't get a skill +power though. The power is taken instead of a skill as per always. It's just that you can now take a power from the BoO, rather than the proscribed powers they had previously. Also, if you choose a power from BoO and only have powers from that specific tree, you also get the free ability at the top of that particular page.

 

[Stompzilla]

Effectively, if you take a single power from BoO, you will end up with a power and the skill associated with that power tree but that's all (Which is still pretty damned awesome).

You don't get for e.g. Nerves of steel and a psychic power + the bonus ability. That's crazy talk.

You must give up the ability to choose a skill in order to take a psychic power which then allows you to take a power from BoO. Then because you only have 1 power from a single BoO power tree, you get the bonus associated with that tree.

Seems a bit convoluted but it's actually really not, if you approach it logically and systematically.

 

[TopsyKretts]

That would make sense and clean up a lot of noise. But where does it say that?

I think this is the offending part in Outcast (p52):

Unless otherwise specified, all fighters with the Sanctioned Psyker or Non-sanctioned Psyker special rule start with a single Wyrd Power, either chosen from those included in their gang list or from one of the disciplines presented here.

 

[Stompzilla]

It's written on the back of my hand and anybody who tries this BS gets a real close look at it.

 

[Stompzilla]

In all seriousness though, it should say in the individual psyker's entry. The cult witch for e.g. is pretty clear. Same for the Stealer Acolyte - the psychic power is their primary skill.

Delaque get to choose a skill and can buy a power from their book. If they upgrade later to an outcast power, they don't get the free ability from outcast. Venators, I will have to check on.

 

[Bargadasch]

So for me there was no question, till i read this here...

Book of ruin Rules:

A.) Starting Skill:
The Cult Witch starts with one skill chosen from their Primary skill set AND the Non-sanctioned Psycer Skill

B.) Special Rules:
...Chaos Cult Wyrd Powers are treated as Primary skill sets for the purpose of skill selection.


My understanding:

1. A -> Witch starts with one skill AND the Non-sanctioned Psycer Skill
2. B -> So the special Rule is a clarification to the one starting skill which can be choosen and has nothing to do with the Non-sanctioned Psycer Skill




Book of the Outcast Rules:

C.) Any Fighter with the (Non-)Sanctioned Psyker special Rule can make use of the disciplines presented here using the guidekines below.

D.) Unless otherwise specified, all fighters with the (Non-)Sanctioned Psyker special Rule start with one single Wyrd Power

E.) A (Non-)Sanctioned Psyker choose any Wyrd Power from those presented here instead of one from their gang list as an Advancement...


My understanding:

3. C.) Witch is included in this rule because she is a Fighter with the (Non-)Sanctioned Psyker special Rule
4. D.) That is only because of the (Non-)Sanctioned Psyker special Rule and has nothing to do with other skills and how a Psyker gets them - so the Witch gets one Wyrd Power
5. E.) As an Advance the Witch can choose one additional Wyrd Power just as they would gain a primary skill


Sumary:

A witch starts with

1 Wyrd Power because of the (Non-)Sanctioned Psyker special Rule
1 Skill which can be a "normal Skill" or a Wyrd Power because they can choose it like a primary skill

 

[TopsyKretts]

All this talk of sanctioned/non-sanctioned is so annoying to me. A fighter can be a psyker or not. Whether a psyker is sanctioned or not has nothing to do with the topic of starting skills and wyrd powers! But yeah guess that's how GW wrote it so that's what we got.

 

[Heart of Storm]

Bargadasch has the right of it, BoO gave every psyker a free wyrd power out the gate, they can then make a starting skill selection (which can be another wyrd powers if they have a wyrd skill as a primary) and they can use xp to buy further wyrd powers as advancements.

Its the only correct interpretation of the rules I can see, its also the conclusion we reached when this was discussed elsewhere on the forum. BoO was a flat buff to psykers.

 

[cardyfreak]

I don’t agree that BoO is supposed to give every fighter an extra power. To me the rule that says every psyker starts with a power is equivalent to the section in a gang wyrds profile that says they start with a wyrd power.

In BoO any model is allowed to become a psyker, and if they do, they gain the non-sanctioned psyker rule. Fine.
Next, unless otherwise specified a (non)sanctioned psyker-
(i)starts with a power,
(II) which can be chosen from the gang list or the BoO.
Okay, gotcha. So I look at the chaos witch. She starts with a power. It doesn’t say she starts with two. So she has already fulfilled (i) as she starts with a power, and it doesn’t specifically say she may have two. Next I look at (ii) and see that I may choose chaos powers or BoO powers.

So now I look at my bomb delivery rat. It will be the leader of a Cawdor cult. I make it a psyker. It gains the non sanctioned psyker rule. The rats profile doesn’t say that it gains a power. Fortunately, this is taken care of in (i), so I can pick a power. The rat doesn’t have any powers in his book so as per (ii) I’ll use BoO.

If it was otherwise, some psykers would get two powers and others would get one, despite them both having the (non) sanctioned fighter skill.

I really want to make a gang with a psychic rat as the leader now

 

[cardyfreak]

Wait wait, I think I’m wrong. So leaders can start with a skill, which can be a power, and then the psyker rules state all psykers start with a wyrd power. So if I choose a leadership primary, I’d have a psyker with no power if not for the part about all wyrds starting with a power.
So yeah, that does look like two powers. Wyrd.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Can Outcast Psyker Leader choose Leadership as Primary? I thought their only primary was wyrd powers.

 

[cardyfreak]

From the PDF-

 

[cardyfreak]

I keep thinking that surely the intention is for psykers to pick a wyrd power rather than a skill, but can’t see any way around it. Even champions have the same wording. I thought that perhaps there would be weapon restrictions to make up for the double powers, but no there’s nothing that separates a psyker leader from another leader except they can have wyrd powers.

I suppose the payoff is that a psyker can spontaneously combust into a daemon at any given point the dice decide.
Old N95 psykers used to get a primary and secondary power, so not too different. I’d love to do a secondary power table for newcromunda.