Skill access separates leader from psyker leader. I can't wrap my head around all these rules and what they're suppose to mean. Is it supposed to say each psyker can start with 2 free "skills" (skill or power)? Is it max 1 skill and max 2 powers?
N18 Wyrd powers clarification for chaos, venators, GSC, outcast
- Thread starter Venik
- Start date
I think its pretty clearly 1 free power (since being a psyker automatically grants a free power) and then one skill choice on creation, which could be a traditional skill or a second power.
Again, not sure how it can be read any other way, there are no conditional riders on it, no "but if your first choice is a wyrd power than thats your lot" psykers get an automatic wyrd power, leaders and champions can pick a skill at creation. Two different rules that don't cancel eachother out.
If you need to come up with a fluffy rationale for it, how can your character be considered a "wyrd" unless they have a power to manifest?
Again, not sure how it can be read any other way, there are no conditional riders on it, no "but if your first choice is a wyrd power than thats your lot" psykers get an automatic wyrd power, leaders and champions can pick a skill at creation. Two different rules that don't cancel eachother out.
If you need to come up with a fluffy rationale for it, how can your character be considered a "wyrd" unless they have a power to manifest?
While the wording of the rules support the two powers argument I doubt that's what GW intended when they wrote it. They might have wrote instead of thier clumsy long-winded wording in the book of the outcast "any Gang psykers may either chose from thier original power list or from one of the disciplines in this book" Think of how much ink that sentence will have saved...
As of the new Core rulebook change to Maintain Control psykers are now more viable again as well.
As of the new Core rulebook change to Maintain Control psykers are now more viable again as well.
I disagree it was unintentional, wyrd powers suck and nobody ever takes them, at least this way psykers actually have powers, as those (lets remember, largely situational and not very effective) powers aren't competing with actually useful skills when purchasing a model
Trying to wrap my head around this one - I'm not sure the interpretation of point A above is accurate.
The Cult Witch starts with ONE skill chosen from : [ their Primary skill set (= Savant + Cult Wyrd Powers) and the Non-sanctioned Psyker skill (= Biomancy + Chronomancy + ...) ].
Otherwise the rule would read: The Cult Witch starts with one skill chosen from their Primary skill set and one skill chosen from the Non-sanctioned Psyker Skill.
It does not contradict the BoO "Unless otherwise specified, all fighters with the non-sanctioned psyker special rule start with a single Wyrd power, either from the gang list, or from one of the disciplines listed here.” since the BoR does specify that "a Cult Witch starts with one skill chosen (...)".
As much I would love my witch to have 2 powers (or 1 savant skill + 1 power) I'm not sure this is what is intended.
"Non-sanctioned psyker skill" isn't really a skill. Don't think these terms were properly organized back then. The non-sanctioned psyker rule is simply that enemies gain D3x10 credits if it goes out of action, and if captured is worth full value when sold (to guilders). And it isn't even a good special rule, it's strictly a penalty to symbolize how outlaw psykers are at a disadvantage / have a liability.
It is needlessly over-complicated in the books.
This is how it should be:
Finally, keep in mind when referencing N19 era rules, that was possibly the most dirty rules in terms of quality.
It is needlessly over-complicated in the books.
This is how it should be:
- Psyker: Can have and use psychic powers. All psykers are one of the following:
- Sanctioned: Re-roll failed WIllpower test once per battle.
- Unsanctioned: Enemies gain D3x10 credits if it goes out of action, and if captured is worth full value when sold (to guilders).
Finally, keep in mind when referencing N19 era rules, that was possibly the most dirty rules in terms of quality.
N23 rulebook cleaned up continuous powers which has been left dirty in every other rulebook since 2018. And incorrectly "fixed" in FAQ. Which is far more than I would expect by now 
It may be clunky with cultists and genestealer brain beasts with thier potential two skills thing but showing a bit of common sense restraint helps. The witch is very poorly stated so I have little problem giving them a power and a skill to start. Their actual skill trees are not game changing. Savant is thier only primary skill apart from powers. Ballistics expert on a bs 5+ fighter with only pistol access is meh. You seldom need a extra trade action or savvy trader really particular when you can start with a extra champion than most starting gangs. The other three skills are strictly support skills, but good ones. None of them turn the witch into a over powered monster.
As for your warp spawned powers. Scouring require your fragile witch to spend a action casting it and another firing it so you will be in range of retaliation attacks or preemptive ones before you can use it. Just get a hand flamet so you can move and shoot.
Levitation may be better now maintain control can be free but it just makes the witch faster and a loot casket grabber l. It does not oppose the enemy gang in any way.
Warp strength essentially gives his unarmed attacks a servo claw profile or improves other melee attacks. Sadly a 1A 5+ ws witch is not a combat monster so a waste of a skill really.
Dark shield is a little short ranged but is otherwise a good support skill.
Maddening vision can only affect fighters who move within 3inches of the witch. If enemy fighters are that close you are in a lot of trouble. They could just dance 4 inches away and stub pistol you to death.
Assail. Requires a ranged attack on 5+BS with no accuracy bonus and only potentially causes dage if they hit some thing or fall from a hight. Just get a pistol.
So the witch only had 1 good power on thier list that can not be replaced by a normal weapon that doesn't carry the risk of blowing up you own head. Let them have a support skill to complement Dark Shield.
As for your warp spawned powers. Scouring require your fragile witch to spend a action casting it and another firing it so you will be in range of retaliation attacks or preemptive ones before you can use it. Just get a hand flamet so you can move and shoot.
Levitation may be better now maintain control can be free but it just makes the witch faster and a loot casket grabber l. It does not oppose the enemy gang in any way.
Warp strength essentially gives his unarmed attacks a servo claw profile or improves other melee attacks. Sadly a 1A 5+ ws witch is not a combat monster so a waste of a skill really.
Dark shield is a little short ranged but is otherwise a good support skill.
Maddening vision can only affect fighters who move within 3inches of the witch. If enemy fighters are that close you are in a lot of trouble. They could just dance 4 inches away and stub pistol you to death.
Assail. Requires a ranged attack on 5+BS with no accuracy bonus and only potentially causes dage if they hit some thing or fall from a hight. Just get a pistol.
So the witch only had 1 good power on thier list that can not be replaced by a normal weapon that doesn't carry the risk of blowing up you own head. Let them have a support skill to complement Dark Shield.
Arguably Scouring is Continous Effect so doesn't need that expensive and vulnerable setup anymore. And starting skills should be universal for all psykers so can't look at the witch in particular for balance. And Witch can take universal powers now? Some may be more powerful than the old witch powers.
Scouring on the cults list is just basic not continuous. It is continuous in the outcast power list which they can also take. However while it allows you to fire next turn as one of your actions and then move or whatever, so better than before, you still need a willpower check so risk perils of the warp and your head blowing up. You just point and shoot the hand flamer. Saves the skill choice, and xp if a second power, for another skill. It's not the worst choice for setting people on fire, the Garbage heavy flamer comes to mind, it is not best either.
I assessed the cult witch before because genestealer cult alpha has other things going for it with more survivable stats and far better weapon selection. As do venator hunt leaders and psyker outcast leaders. Those fighters have other options available that can shore up failings in powers ,back up plasma gun etc, the poor witch still needs a little help.
Also as an aside, when giving your gang members powers using the book of Outcasts rules you gain a special ability if all your powers are the same discipline. Nowhere does it say discipline from the powers in that book only.
So a Telekinesis power such as dark shield grants the psyker the disciplines special ability as well.
Dark Shield, Warp Strength, in the Helot power list and Hypnosis and Zealot in the genestealer one are not under the Book of the Outcasts power skill trees but are still under the same discipline so just picking dark shield will give your witch unarmed attacks Fists of Fury (S+1 D2 strikes), not as good as a servo claw but better than nothing and free. Warp strength gives you a extra injury dice to roll and choice of one to discard in recovery tests, essentially a free bio booster but on every test not just the first and the two genestealer powers, both Telepathy, grants a Fearful Aura that requires all chargers to pass a willpower check to make a charge against your fighter or lose all actions that turn. That is almost as good as a skinners mask and again for free.
All the disciplines special abilities are good, either duplicating or near enough equipment and skills or boosting the action economy or adding precious re rolls
Fancy being immune to Blaze without being stuck with the 6+ save on a hazard suit?
So a Telekinesis power such as dark shield grants the psyker the disciplines special ability as well.
Dark Shield, Warp Strength, in the Helot power list and Hypnosis and Zealot in the genestealer one are not under the Book of the Outcasts power skill trees but are still under the same discipline so just picking dark shield will give your witch unarmed attacks Fists of Fury (S+1 D2 strikes), not as good as a servo claw but better than nothing and free. Warp strength gives you a extra injury dice to roll and choice of one to discard in recovery tests, essentially a free bio booster but on every test not just the first and the two genestealer powers, both Telepathy, grants a Fearful Aura that requires all chargers to pass a willpower check to make a charge against your fighter or lose all actions that turn. That is almost as good as a skinners mask and again for free.
All the disciplines special abilities are good, either duplicating or near enough equipment and skills or boosting the action economy or adding precious re rolls
Fancy being immune to Blaze without being stuck with the 6+ save on a hazard suit?
That is an inconsistency so it depends how you deal with those. I prefer to have unique names for unique rules, otherwise you will have different rules for all sorts of things. A lot of bad stuff has been printed differently in various books. As far as I remember Scouring has many different versions depending on where you look.
@TopsyKretts I agree. I vaguely recall a dramatic persona or a brute has the same scouring as the cultist one but otherwise I think they are all different.
They had a perfect opportunity to just look up the various powers across all the books and revise them all in the Core book and only did half a job. It's not like the writers don't have access to all the produced books and supplements or anything...
They had a perfect opportunity to just look up the various powers across all the books and revise them all in the Core book and only did half a job. It's not like the writers don't have access to all the produced books and supplements or anything...
They have not stated that Ruin is now defunct so thier powers are still current and valid. The Core book and Outcasts allow witches and other legacy psykers to chose the more recently printed powers, most are the same or improved versions, but a few powers, Warp strength, dark shield Hypnosis and Zealot, are not in the newer books so you have to used the old versions. As I discussed in a previous post those powers for helots witches and genestealer brain beasts have good interaction with the new rules.
I would use the Outcast powers versions but keep those cult specific ones in those situations. It's not like I don't have all the books anyway.
When does GW state that something is defunct or replaced? That's why we discuss all sorts of micro details that change between books. Entire books are actually defunct because GW published revised versions. Nobody knows about this, particularly not GW customer service. I know cause I asked.
Those that are only printed in Ruin are of course still valid as you say. Anything else that's later been changed I consider replaced. That is if the new version is consistently reprinted the same way or makes more sense or fixes something broken. Orherwise I may still hold on to older versions of a rule. It's a value judgement and one of many reasons why we discuss.
Those that are only printed in Ruin are of course still valid as you say. Anything else that's later been changed I consider replaced. That is if the new version is consistently reprinted the same way or makes more sense or fixes something broken. Orherwise I may still hold on to older versions of a rule. It's a value judgement and one of many reasons why we discuss.
Last edited:
In theory they tell the community it is defunct in official FAQs but aside from the odd rewording of a line here and there the only book they have actually said is defunct is Gangs of the Underhive. I may have missed them saying the Gang War books are defunct.
I completely agree with you by the way. It doesn't take much to edit properly and the Necromunda side of the business is secure enough to afford to pay a editor to do this.
Similar threads
