The wyrd power from book of outcast seem relatively balanced when using outcast leaders and champion. But unless im missing something the seem incredibly powerful for delaque leaders and champions. For one they have better willpower stats so the powers are going off more reliably. Also when a delaque upgrades to a wyrd they don't lose their starting skill the way an outcast does. The flicker ability to once per game take an extra action in a faction full of web guns seems game breaking.
N18 Wyrd powers on Delaque
- Thread starter Sundown575
- Start date
Outcast doesn't lose starting skill. In fact, it seems like no psykers lose their starting skill anymore.
I would argue pretty much all psykers get the free wyrd power on top of the skill:
Outcast is a boost to all psykers:
- Universal disciplines offer more options (more to choose from).
- Extra bonus that also applies to fresh psykers.
I would argue pretty much all psykers get the free wyrd power on top of the skill:
- GSC Adept (free)
- Chaos Witch (free)
- Delaque Leader (less of an issue as it is paid for)
- Delaque Specialist Champion (less of an issue as it is paid for)
- Delaque Champion (less of an issue as it is paid for)
- Delaque Specialist Juve (less of an issue as it is paid for)
- Bounty Hunter Leader (less of an issue as it is paid for)
- Outcast Leader (less of an issue as it is paid for by trading off better skill sets)
- Outcast Champion (no primary skills?!? how does this work?)
- Any House Gang Leader that is Tainted: Infected (less of an issue as it is paid for)
- Generic Bounty Hunter (less of an issue as it is paid for)
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An outcast psyker definitely loses his starting skill. Infact the wyrd archetype has no primary skill category. He gets a power instead. The delaque leader or champion specifically dosen't lose their starting skill. A nacht ghoul thats a pyker is starting with 3 skills and a ability. Probably the take an extra action one per game.
Then it wouldn't be much of a bonus, what psyker would ever reach that level? And the cost would be very high when sacrificing all options outside that one discipline.
Agreed. I'm not so worried about it for the outcast psyker since they have pretty meh states and a bad willpower.
Only the leader. Champions have no primary
to go back to the subject of the post, only the delaque champions have better willpower than the outcast ones, an outcast leader can have a 4+ willpower against a 5+ for the delaque one.
As for having a skill on top of the wyrd power... well, maybe there is a reason they cost more (+30 credits for the leader, +55 or +80 credits for a champion).
Even if you prefer the delaque leader to a standard outcast one do not forget the rules for elevating a fighter to leader status allow you to make a gang around a fighter from any gang list, so you can just make an outcast gang with a natch-ghul or a master of shadows as leader.
As for having a skill on top of the wyrd power... well, maybe there is a reason they cost more (+30 credits for the leader, +55 or +80 credits for a champion).
Even if you prefer the delaque leader to a standard outcast one do not forget the rules for elevating a fighter to leader status allow you to make a gang around a fighter from any gang list, so you can just make an outcast gang with a natch-ghul or a master of shadows as leader.
I'm more concerned about the champions. Having a single powerful leader is pretty common in necromunda. But delaque have a really powerful champion in the nacht ghoul. For 30 credits they can have a once a game extra action. It really feels like the powers were balanced around the fairly unimpressive outcast champion stat lines. On the plus side raw the delaque don't get the extra range and difficulty on the generic powers, only their own house powers.
First and foremost it's really unclear at the moment whether the Nacht-ghoul can even be upgraded with Psycheteric Whispers in the first place, as their entry in the gang list specifies that they can take Psycheteric Whispers, however the section about Psycheteric whispers later in the book specifically names Masters of Shadow(leaders) and Phantoms(vanilla champs) as the only ones who can take Psycheteric Whispers. This is obviously a contradiction RaW and if you ask me, it's entirely unclear what was the RaI here.
But assuming it gets sorted out and Nacht-Ghouls can actually take the Whispers, there's a rule that specifies, how they (or any Delaque for that matter) acquire their psy-powers, namely the Psycheteric Whispers rule in the corresponding section. And thus it can be argued that "Unless otherwise specified..." clause isn't fulfilled and they can't take their starting power from the generic disciplines.
That said being Non-Sanctioned psychers RaW they can actually take generic psy-powers from Outcasts later as skills. But if they have any powers from one of their three disciplines they'll never get the Discipline Bonus.
How are you even choosing from any other list than house power list? Maybe house rule?
Also what's that power, I didn't find anything about it.
Any psyker can take universal powers! "Unless otherwise specified"...
Flicker isn't a power. It's an ability you get if you choose only chronomancy. It's a once per game extra action.
I would really like this to be the case. The generic powers are really good. It's the abilities, specifically flicker that really worry me.
I reread the delque psyker rules again. It say you must select a discipline and you may choose a power from it. Thanks GW raw this would mean you pick of the power sets from the delaque book but could simply choose one of the powers and its associated ability from the book of outcasts. I'm fairly certain that this was the intention but at this point who knows. My preferred interpretation is that your first power must be from the delaque book but then may choose from the book of outcasts. I'm playing orlock in my current campaign but plan to play in a much larger campaign im running with delaque. Even though it would be less power I do feel its a fair way to both have the fun new powers but also keep things reasonable.
Yeah, as with most things the Rules aren't clear-cut here. But like I said earlier, it certainly can be argued that "Unless otherwise specified..." clause doesn't work for Delaque Psykers, since it actually IS specified, how and what powers they are allowed to take at the start. Whether that's RaI of even was accounted for when the House of Shadow was written is anyone's guess at this moment.
So if you stick with this interpretation, Delaques have two options:
1. Take the starting power from one of three Delaque Disciplines, and then take additional powers from BoO Disciplines as skill advances, but miss out on the Discipline ability;
2. Buy Psycheteric Whispers, but opt not to take the starting Delaque power (since the wording allows not to take it), in order to then take BoQ powers as skill advances and gain the appropriate Discipline ability.
While the latter option does seem relatively strong, it's probably not outright broken, since a skill advance is 9XP.
Oh, BTW @TopsyKretts , there's a potential error in BoO where it states that taking a random primary skill is 9XP and selecting one is 12XP. This is in the USING WYRD POWER DISCIPLINES section on pg. 52, in a bullet point near the bottom of the page.
Flicker is indeed an extremely strong ability - an unconditional extra action is really-really good.
However there's another really strong Discipline ability and that's Future Sight from the Divination Discipline.
Like Flicker and unlike all other Discipline abilities, Future Sight can't be replicated by a skill or an item, so it's already really strong.
Plus you can reroll any amount of dice in a multi-dice roll - like you roll 1&6 on your Willpower roll to cast something, so you can reroll both of them, but you can keep the 6 and just reroll the 1. Aaaand you can even force your opponent to reroll say a successful save roll if it's during your activation!
Meaningful Rerolls are extremely difficult to come by in Munda, even moreso than extra actions. IIRC there's one Tactics card and one gang ability that gives rerolls of anything other than ammo checks.
Plus Divination has some pretty neat powers, two of them being unique as they're not even used during the battle.
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