Yakhammer 40k AKA Yakhammer in SPAAACE!! AKA SUMPHAMMER!! (2nd Edition Discussion)

Gunkaiser

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It's a problem in Legion too... Making activation count the tie breaker for "blue player" rather than points does a pretty good job of fixing it.
 
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Gunkaiser

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What’s a blue player?
Sort of the attacker? They get first choice of sides and first choice of cards to eliminate (deployment/conditions/environment) so have a huge advantage in terms of defining what the battlefield conditions are gonna look like. If you want to win on turn zero you want to be "blue".
 
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CaptainDangerous

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In warlord’s drudge dredd and strontium dog the dice bag (tokens in this case) rules apply, but for every ’character’ you get a special dice (token) that allows you a chance to return the dice (token).by successfully passing an initiative check. You can still choose to activate a grunt with a special dice, but the chance to return the dice is lost, or visa versa, you can activate a character with a non special dice (token) but again, the iniative is lost.

what I’m getting to, however, is that maybe for Yakhammer 40k, maybe units that have a high leadership or are over a certain amount of points get to put such a die in the bag? That way the small elite factions get the chance, but don’t automatically suffer?

*p.s. Remembered they are tokens not dice (Iv still yet to play a game, Iv got a giant pile of polystyrene waiting to be turned into Mega City Too)
 

Luke82

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I saw some alt activation rules that had the army with a higher strategy rating add a number of extra tokens to the bag equal to the difference in strat rating, I thought this was a pretty simple way to give smaller, more nimble forces (with their higher strat rating) a boost to activations that will help close the gap a bit. No one gets to go twice, unused tokens are just left in the bag once all units have activated. We will give it a try and see how it goes.
 

Oxymandias

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Hey, long time lurking first time posting blue imperial guard general of the planet "Wargames Illustrated" army here.

http://projectanvil.blogspot.com/search/label/Cheat Sheet - this website has been a great resource for 2nd ed bits.

The alt activation mentioned by Luke with the extra tokens for higher strat rating is here:


(Credit to project Anvil)
 

Luke82

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More 40k with @Oxymandias yesterday evening, as the Imperial Guard continue their efforts to subdue the genestealer cult. A full 2,000 points on an 8’ x 4’ this time, and we had a psychic phase for the first time (we stuck to conventional turn order because of this, no alt activations just yet).

This was a close game, and came right down to the wire (we nearly always play until a clear winner comes out, rather than to a turn limit, our fluffy brains cant handle ending games before one side has been clearly spanked!). I got lucky with some stellar heavy bolter fire taking out two squads which pushed me out in front and we called it a win for the cult.









Still getting a handle on the system so nothing really leaping out as in real need of tweaking yet, in terms of basic rules anyway. Psychic phase was fun, I had two level four psykers vs none for the imperial guard, and it didnt seem harsh for the imps.
 

Luke82

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Moar gamez!

My Allied Labourers Insisting on Expanded Net Salaries took on the cruel Imperial fat cats in a battle for a water processing plant. It was our first time playing properly with missions and victory points and it was good… generally we are too fluffy to play the ‘battle for five random points’ scenarios of modern games but the missions in 2nd Ed are a bit more varied, with my cult getting points for more destruction and the guard trying to get a unit into my deployment zone. After four turns i’d done enough damage to race ahead in points and the imperial guard chimera that was the last hope to get into my deployment zone ran into an angry Patriach, so the cult took the W… it was the start of our mini campaign as well so we dished out some xp to heroes and the imperial guard commissar got an eye burnt out by a cult flamer.










 

Luke82

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And last night we had a multiplayer game so thought we’d try out the Bolt Action alt activations. My chaos warband took on two ork mobs all fighting over a water well in the middle of an arid desert.





The alt activations worked well, and were definitely the right way to go with a multiplayer battle. We left psykers out as we still dont really know how to handle them with alt activations. Close combat is going to require some thought as it got complicated when my chaos lord was having an ongoing fight with an ork dread and was charged by some gretchen. In normal turn order its pretty simple to work out, but with alt actions not so much, we didnt know how to best order the combats. One on one was simple, we fought a round each time the units involved activated so you ended up scrapping twice in a turn (as you would with normal turn order) but as soon as another unit was involved it got a bit messy.
 

ClockworkOrange

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Do a combat every time the units activate? Kinda disadvantages the Gretchen but hey that’s kinda right.

Tables look great!
 
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Luke82

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The issue was that the chaos lord got massive penalties for fighting so many opponents, and deciding when those penalties ended, as you’re technically smudging two turns into one. So if orks went first the Gretchen charge in the charge phase and then the chaos lord fights them all in the combat phase, by the time he gets to the dreadnought he’s at -4 to his combat score (which is why the Gretchen got fed to him, to soften him up for the dread). But next turn he’s only fighting the dread, so no penalties… this isnt so clear cut in alt activations as it wouldnt be fair for him to still be carrying over the penalties when he activated as it’s technically his turn now and there’s no gretchen knackering him out. We worked it out that gretchen fought and bravely died, then when the chaos lord activated he was at the -4, but then when the dread activated and they fought again he didnt have the penalties. This seemed the most fair way and luckily we were pretty chilled about it but i imagine it would be pretty hard to codify how it would work and could lead to some different interpretations.
 

Ben_S

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It's a long time since I played 2nd edition, so my memory may not reliable, but from what I remember you're right: the mission cards seemed to have much more character than 'hold this objective'.
 
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I've been wanting to revisit 2nd edition for several years. I just didn't like the changes 3rd edition made, and while some things got better, 6th and 7th edition (where one of my groups stopped) just got so unnecessarily complicated and bloated, and 0th edition is apparently the Whose Line of Warhammer (where everything's made up and the points don't matter). There was actual strategy in 2nd edition, not just it being about whose number is bigger. Wargear was gear, not just guns.

I started going through the Chaos Codex again to update things. Mostly retyping things to clean them up, but also to add new units and reconcile with the current model range. I'm of two minds here. Either just expand on 2nd edition so that we can all play with the models we can buy, or to start cleaning up and rewriting the game but based on 2nd edition. Adding things like alternating activation, hand-to-hand rules than don't take an hour to resolve (I like 2nd ed hand-to-hand, but it really doesn't work on a squad scale), and playability in large scale games.
 

Wasteland

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I've been wanting to revisit 2nd edition for several years. I just didn't like the changes 3rd edition made, and while some things got better, 6th and 7th edition (where one of my groups stopped) just got so unnecessarily complicated and bloated, and 0th edition is apparently the Whose Line of Warhammer (where everything's made up and the points don't matter). There was actual strategy in 2nd edition, not just it being about whose number is bigger. Wargear was gear, not just guns.

I started going through the Chaos Codex again to update things. Mostly retyping things to clean them up, but also to add new units and reconcile with the current model range. I'm of two minds here. Either just expand on 2nd edition so that we can all play with the models we can buy, or to start cleaning up and rewriting the game but based on 2nd edition. Adding things like alternating activation, hand-to-hand rules than don't take an hour to resolve (I like 2nd ed hand-to-hand, but it really doesn't work on a squad scale), and playability in large scale games.

True, hth in 2nd takes longer than in all the following editions. Although the following things affect hth too:

- 2nd armies are smaller than in 3rd+. This means fewer models which will be able to enter hth. Thus shorter close combats.
- True overwatch in 2nd. Squads DON`T want to walk over open fields, if a lot of sustained fire weapons have LOS to them. Also heavy weapons do multiple wounds which can kill characters and monsters with a single hit unlike in 3rd+ (only had instant death mechanic) thus creating even more fear when establishing firing lanes. Being too eager to engage in close combat may be a quick death sentence.
- Who is allowed to fight and who may die is actually clearer in 2nd (only models in btb contact). There are no "kill zones" of 2 inch like in some of the older editions.
 

Luke82

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Anyone up for testing some 40k goodness? Not strictly 2nd Ed but definitely in spirit.

After a tonne of tinkering my pal Jac and I are finally testing out our adapted WoEhammer 40k rules, and it’s a doozy. It’s roots are firmly second Ed but snazzed up right nice and adapted from Warlords of Erehwon which was by far our favourite fantasy system and hard to go back from to other games after the freedom it gives.

We wanted it to be;

Alternate activations
D10 based (sorry Tiny)
Based on tactical decisions each activation, not list building and sTRaTagEm wangling
Include command and control, pinning, and psychology
Have decent missions beyond ‘send the men to die for these six grid references’
Standardised weapons where possible
Templates and scatter, as is just
Terrain that is meaningful and interactive
The right amount of random whackiness to always keep you on your toes and piss off the tournament toddlers
Vehicles that felt like vehicles and not big monsters
A simple points calculator to design additional units
All in one big book to download, print off, and play forever and ever with no seasons or awakenings or instantly out of date codex beaux shid

It’s now in a presentable state so I’d love it if people were up for trying it and giving feedback, we have given the basic rules a good test and know the WoE system is mega robust, but the amount of army lists and extra stuff we’ve crammed in could do with extra eyes on it and gamez if possible… and it is free after all!

Book


Some cards

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Urf-zu301GEdMGzUYdHMICfAU7wyl_XN/view?usp=drivesdk


Here’s some pics from our last game, we rolled secret missions before the game, Space Marines / Imperial Guard vs Orks, with Jac attempting to capture my warboss alive while breaking the rest of the army, and me trying to destroy his support units. I got well and truly spanked after one of my trucks got hit with a scattered frag grenade that caused it to swerve into another buggy and explode, taking its sweet plasma cannon with it. Was a great game!








Also some pics of my kit bashed Chin-ork which is exactly the kind of units we wanted to be able to add into the games we played.



Edit; Link fixed!
 
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